We're not talking about the bugs. All software has bugs. We're talking about releasing a game that's not finished -- that has game-breaking play balance problems and entire game systems (combat AI, diplomacy) that just don't work.
Info on Upcoming Patches from Jon Shafer
- Thread starter Pyrkaige
- Start date
I didn't intend to bring out the angst in some people about comparing Blizzard to 2k. As I said I love Blizzard, I always have and I will most likely always will.
I was reputing the comment about Blizzard releases complete games, which has been proven that they do not (releasing content patches later).
As to the bugs in CIV5, again I have never said there aren't any. I stated in my last post I also get the appcrash bug. I have yet had a game where I've not been able to complete it and yes I play on pretty large maps. I'm not saying it's not a problem for a good group of people. I'm saying again I can remember other games where you couldn't play long without the game crashing as well.
What we are going through with CIV5 is nothing new. That's pretty much all I've been trying to say.
You say it's about being unfinished, someone else in this same thread rants on about bugs. Different people are talking about different things. It's hard to keep it straight.
I was reputing the comment about Blizzard releases complete games, which has been proven that they do not (releasing content patches later).
As to the bugs in CIV5, again I have never said there aren't any. I stated in my last post I also get the appcrash bug. I have yet had a game where I've not been able to complete it and yes I play on pretty large maps. I'm not saying it's not a problem for a good group of people. I'm saying again I can remember other games where you couldn't play long without the game crashing as well.
What we are going through with CIV5 is nothing new. That's pretty much all I've been trying to say.
You say it's about being unfinished, someone else in this same thread rants on about bugs. Different people are talking about different things. It's hard to keep it straight.
Thoughtful Thug
Deity
I agree that there will be bugs here and there. But you got to at least agree that this thing we got here is not only bug-ridden with problems, but as well as things that make it look like it was half complete.
I don't know what company you have worked for, but Firaxis is just at the bottom of a chain of other companies above it that has their own set of QA people with different conflicting set of motives on how to make this product profitable. Firaxis has no final say on anything whatsoever, but to make the game fast as they can with some kind of a deadline to meet.
Blizzard isn't perfect but they are a hell of a lot better than anyone else. Firaxis/2K look awful in comparison. Diablo 3 is going to be incredible and I can't wait.
The problems with the game go much deeper than a few bugs and balance issues. The AI is seriously lacking and will take a long, long time to even get to serviceable levels. The core gameplay is dull and uninspiring. Frankly, it just isn't a fun game.
So I disagree. This is something we haven't seen before. These issues run way to deep to be fixed at all in my opinion.
lynxxyarly
Warlord
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You're kidding, right?
Would I want to go back to playing Civ IV without what Beyond the Sword adds? No. But should I have had to pay for the privilege of balancing a game that, by the very intent of this expansion, its developers clearly felt needed it? Again, no.
the343danny
Emperor
I find this one comment concerning. I'm currently playing a marathon game on a large highland map. Russia is currently trying to take over the whole map with cities and is currently running at -17 happiness. He's been running that way for at least 100 years.
I see that as a problem myself
I hardly see an unhappy Civ. Often its an AI who just got terribly beaten in a war, but other than that they seem to be often way above 0.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
I have. I saw Rome with a -33 combat modifier. He did conquer most of the world, though.
For me, it is - the fact that I'm bored by Civ 5 is completely new in regards to the Civ franchise. Sure, they've all had bugs, but bugs don't bore me. They're frustrating precisely because I'm enjoying that particular game.
The last Civ 5 game where I got hit by a bugged permanent peace treaty, I just quit and haven't played since. I didn't get all that frustrated or angry, I just rolled my eyes and hit Exit Game. You'd think I'd be upset, but the AI is so bad and the choices so routine that the game itself just isn't engaging, and the most I can muster when hit by a bug is exasperated indifference. That's a pretty sad state of events for my favorite game franchise.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
I seriously hope the look to the excellent balancing work already being done by modders (like Thallasicus) & use some of them as a basis for their future patches. I'd also actually have not problem with the AI being *less* obsessed with happiness.
Aussie.
Aussie.
katipunero
Prince
it's a WIP. 
Zenstrive
Ocean King
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denogginizer
Chieftain
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Hopefully (one day) they get rid of the dull snap/thud sound effect when clicking on anything in the menu or the game.
Infiltrator
Warlord
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I really can't understand people even mentioning Blizzard/SC2 here. SC2 is a very, very polished and complete game. Sure, the campaign is just Terran, but the length of it is at least the length of the sc2 vanilla campaign. It's not like they had 10 terran missions, the end. So this argument is invalid.
90% of the old content? Maybe. I'd say 80%. But I wanted that. A lot of people wanted it, and I'm pretty sure the MAJORITY of a 10 year old game that still gets played wanted something very similar to the core gameplay.
Lets see aspects of gameplay - SC2 vs Civ5
SC2 - Single player - Long campaign, amazing cinematics, interesting characters/story (not the best in the world but good enough), training mode with challenges, fun hidden content/secret missions/easter eggs, AI improvements that make the AI mimic some human abilities such as having to scout before knowing where the enemy is or what he is getting.
Civ5 - Single player - Just one mode, play game. Diversity thanks to randomly generated maps, but pretty much skirmish is the only thing the game offers in terms of SP. AI is atrocious, and I'm being generous.
SC2 - Multiplayer - Oh boy, is this even fair to mention? 3 completely different races that are balanced almost perfectly at launch, dedicated servers, matchmaking, avatars, rewards, ladders, custom/modded games, VERY detailed replay system and end-game demographics, almost bug free (only a few exploits that you can't use in a real game).. the only downside is lack of chat channel support as far as I'm concerned.
Civ5 - MP - er. Broken? No animations, questionable mechanics involving simultaneous turns, no dedicated servers, complete lack of balance even though each of the civs is 95% the same thing, with UA/UB/UU being the only differentiating thing, bug ridden (like the SP), crappy demographics.
Seriously guys, do I need to go on? You can blame blizzard for enslaving 11k souls with WoW, but that's certainly not because they released an unfinished game.
90% of the old content? Maybe. I'd say 80%. But I wanted that. A lot of people wanted it, and I'm pretty sure the MAJORITY of a 10 year old game that still gets played wanted something very similar to the core gameplay.
Lets see aspects of gameplay - SC2 vs Civ5
SC2 - Single player - Long campaign, amazing cinematics, interesting characters/story (not the best in the world but good enough), training mode with challenges, fun hidden content/secret missions/easter eggs, AI improvements that make the AI mimic some human abilities such as having to scout before knowing where the enemy is or what he is getting.
Civ5 - Single player - Just one mode, play game. Diversity thanks to randomly generated maps, but pretty much skirmish is the only thing the game offers in terms of SP. AI is atrocious, and I'm being generous.
SC2 - Multiplayer - Oh boy, is this even fair to mention? 3 completely different races that are balanced almost perfectly at launch, dedicated servers, matchmaking, avatars, rewards, ladders, custom/modded games, VERY detailed replay system and end-game demographics, almost bug free (only a few exploits that you can't use in a real game).. the only downside is lack of chat channel support as far as I'm concerned.
Civ5 - MP - er. Broken? No animations, questionable mechanics involving simultaneous turns, no dedicated servers, complete lack of balance even though each of the civs is 95% the same thing, with UA/UB/UU being the only differentiating thing, bug ridden (like the SP), crappy demographics.
Seriously guys, do I need to go on? You can blame blizzard for enslaving 11k souls with WoW, but that's certainly not because they released an unfinished game.
Guardian_PL
Emperor
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- 1,231
For me, it is - the fact that I'm bored by Civ 5 is completely new in regards to the Civ franchise. Sure, they've all had bugs, but bugs don't bore me. They're frustrating precisely because I'm enjoying that particular game.
The last Civ 5 game where I got hit by a bugged permanent peace treaty, I just quit and haven't played since. I didn't get all that frustrated or angry, I just rolled my eyes and hit Exit Game. You'd think I'd be upset, but the AI is so bad and the choices so routine that the game itself just isn't engaging, and the most I can muster when hit by a bug is exasperated indifference. That's a pretty sad state of events for my favorite game franchise.
You can say THAT again... Instead of being upset that the game crashed on me while I wanted to load the game I thought "hm, let's check fanatics", and after posting few bits here and there went on to do sth else. And THAT's weird. Normal reaction in all previous civgames was "
grrrrr bloody bug, now I have to do it again 
" - the thought of not starting the game again wouldn't even occur to me. As things stand now - I'm reading a helluva lot of manga, not even participating on civfanatics forum as often...
Yeah, after like three games I got totally bored with music (like some pieces are great, but then it changes to something I've heard a zillion times and I'm sick of it), and totally annoyed with this "wheh!" sound of units clicking, so it's mute and I listen to my own music - "The Cross Of Changes" of Enigma is a really nice soundtrack for Aztecs/Iroquis
Slimthrull
Chieftain
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- Aug 29, 2007
- Messages
- 11
Posting just to say that I'm happy that things are indeed being worked on! Hopefully this patch will correct a lot of what's making people less than happy with the game. (Though, I strongly suspect it'll take 2-3 patches to really get to that point.)
Dark_Jedi06
"Deus ex Machina."
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I'm all for a large patch that's in the pipeline that will make some sweeping changes/fixes...I'm willing to wait for that. However, I am not willing to wait for a fix to the permanent peace bug that will totally ruin the integrity of an otherwise good playthrough.
Keep working on the big patch, that's fine, but in the meantime fix the small things.
Keep working on the big patch, that's fine, but in the meantime fix the small things.
sukha
Chieftain
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- May 8, 2010
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- 90
This...
eviltypeguy
Warlord
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Uh, yeah, that's why Blizzard has been making so many drastic balance changes.
I would say that it's safe to say other games have been released in a far relatively more polished state, but it isn't fair to say that any game has ever been released 100% complete and polished.
Then again, "Real Artists Ship". Every developer has to pick a point at which to call something "good enough".
I'd say that Civ V doesn't feel any less complete than when Civ IV 1.0 shipped -- or Civ III for that matter.
UKScud
Warlord
Every one is entitiled to their own opinion of course, but judging from the tone of a lot of the posts and polls on this site I'd say that a lot of people disagree with you.
André Alfenaar
Warlord
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I am really amazed by the players complaining that the game is not finished and should be released later. Why complain? Don't play Civ V. Just wait. That is what you want, right?
Meanwhile I wait for further improvements while playing Civ V. And I enjoy it.
Meanwhile I wait for further improvements while playing Civ V. And I enjoy it.
