This news makes me more optimistic, but I'll only be satisfied if/when the patches/updates follow through. It's entirely possible that I personally won't be happy with the changes, or the changes are minimal and don't really change much of anything.
Info on Upcoming Patches from Jon Shafer
- Thread starter Pyrkaige
- Start date
Well I have to beg to differ with WoW. I've played since Vanilla and I can recall long frustrating times when they were constantly rebooting the servers for stability problems and we were getting patches every other day.
Like I mentioned before, I maintain that Blizz games do come up with fewer than average major problems but they still come with their fair share.
Bugs happen. No piece of software is bug free. It does not happen.
DarkMaster
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
- Messages
- 130
Because they are actually a reasonable community and engage on a serious discussion while here half of the posts are simply whining, not to mention the personal attacks at Jon.
silentknight111
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2005
- Messages
- 145
And you're basing your "real slow" judgement on what? That we haven't had a "major" patch in the few weeks the game has been out? That's not "real slow". That's normal. They can't just hand off the patch to some programmer, tell him to fix it in a couple days, and then throw it in the wild. There has to be testing so they don't break the game more.
shinkicker
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2010
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First, Quartertothree is NOT an "obscure little known website". It's actually a very good source of gaming information and reviews.
Second, he was probably responding to a request for interview. It wasn't so much his choice of a site, but just their decision to ask for the info.
Frasco
Drunk costarrican civer
Like I mentioned before, I maintain that Blizz games do come up with fewer than average major problems but they still come with their fair share.
Bugs happen. No piece of software is bug free. It does not happen.
Difference is... Blizzard games are buggy... ciV is unfinished... Way different.
r_rolo1
King of myself
This is probably because of the discussion about the take 2k had on bioshock 2 that went around in the last days ...
I pay to see ( well, technically i already paid to see, when I bought the game
) ... I haven't seen nothing there that adresses the current take on ICS the game has and another core issues. Not that the AI does not need a buff and that there aren't bugs to fix, but neither will save a strategy game that has a obvious cookie cutter strat.
Position: midly optimistic.
I pay to see ( well, technically i already paid to see, when I bought the game
) ... I haven't seen nothing there that adresses the current take on ICS the game has and another core issues. Not that the AI does not need a buff and that there aren't bugs to fix, but neither will save a strategy game that has a obvious cookie cutter strat.Position: midly optimistic.
I'm encouraged (though certainly not surprised) to hear that changes are coming. However, I'm not pleased with Shafer's attitude that he views the released game as a good "foundation" for future changes. I didn't pay for a foundation, I paid for a finished game. I also didn't pay to be a beta-tester for the good game that Civ V will "eventually" become. Deliberately releasing an unfinished game is not acceptable.
The fact that this is commonly done in the industry today does not make it any more acceptable. Saying that something similar happened with Civ IV does not make it any more acceptable.
The fact that this is commonly done in the industry today does not make it any more acceptable. Saying that something similar happened with Civ IV does not make it any more acceptable.
CaptainBinky
Warlord
You have bought a finished game though, just it's a finished game which is a good foundation for a better game.
I could understand the complaints if it were released, people weren't happy, and they said, "well, that's it. That's all you're getting for your money". I can sympathise with shelling out money and then having to wait for the game to be patched, but surely... surely, this is the better scenario than them holding off while they get everything perfect, and then going bankrupt because there's no income coming in and then us never getting a Civ V. It's not like there weren't redundancies or anything leading up to release.
I could understand the complaints if it were released, people weren't happy, and they said, "well, that's it. That's all you're getting for your money". I can sympathise with shelling out money and then having to wait for the game to be patched, but surely... surely, this is the better scenario than them holding off while they get everything perfect, and then going bankrupt because there's no income coming in and then us never getting a Civ V. It's not like there weren't redundancies or anything leading up to release.
Ah. Now we will have to be even thankful for any patch, eventually coming out?
Actually, if you want to be very truthful about it, World of Warcraft has never been released "finished". Just look at the last expansion, WotLK. Ice Crown Citadel wasn't even in the the game when Wrath was released. You couldn't even fight the Lich King when it first game out and that was pinnacle of the expansion.
So really if you want to get right down to it, people were able to play Wrath they way it was released and people are able to play Civ5 the way it was released. Patches and updates opened up more in Wrath and so I'm confident that patches and updates will open up more of Civ5.
CaptainBinky
Warlord
I'm not saying you have to leap about and praise them, "hooray! Thanks for the bugs because it means patches! Woo!" or anything. But yes, on the whole I'm thankful for patches since a patch is better than no patch.
Frasco
Drunk costarrican civer
You've been brainwashed friend. Imagine you bought an unfinished car. Would you be happy because you are promised that in some time in the future... without a ETA... they will make your car work as it was supposed to from the beginning? I don't know you... if my car doesn't work as it was specified I put it back to the vendor's office and demand my money back.
lschnarch said:
Hoping they don't sell that too... or maybe they throw us unfinished patches to beta them too...
Frasco
Drunk costarrican civer
Actually, if you want to be very truthful about it, World of Warcraft has never been released "finished". Just look at the last expansion, WotLK. Ice Crown Citadel wasn't even in the the game when Wrath was released. You couldn't even fight the Lich King when it first game out and that was pinnacle of the expansion.
So really if you want to get right down to it, people were able to play Wrath they way it was released and people are able to play Civ5 the way it was released. Patches and updates opened up more in Wrath and so I'm confident that patches and updates will open up more of Civ5.
My bad... I've never played WoW... My Blizzard experience is about SC, DiabloII, WarcraftIII and SCII... They have all been patched once and again and again... but they were fairly playable since Vanilla.
Releasing games unfinished with the expectation that players will ignore the shortcomings because "every game is made this way" is Moderator Action: <snip> . The only reason games are released in unfinished/broken states is greed.
The gaming industry is also the only industry that can get away with it because the majority of their customers are young and are being exposed to this for the first time in their lives. There's always a new wave of suckers being born and gaming companies rely on it.
Moderator Action: Swearing is not allowed on these forums, if you see that your post has triggered the autocensor, please go back and edit it. Thanks.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Actually, quite a lot of business software works the same way.
No, Civ 5 is definitely unpolished. It's a classic example of a game somewhere in the beta state. All the basics are there (AI, economy, diplomacy, etc), but they haven't been properly tuned. Stability is a little spotty in areas as well.
I like Civ 5 and think it is a great start overall (though I think they should of gone with universal food rather than happiness). Thinking the game is well-polished and tuned is really silly though.
CaptainBinky
Warlord
No I haven't been, friend. It's really not the same scenario at all as your car example. There's no defined list of standards in which the game has to live up to in order to be considered "complete" other than those which we invent ourselves. If I bought a car without test-driving it first, later decided that it didn't perform as well as I'd expected, and then couldn't get a refund because I'd explicitly bought it from a store which made it very clear that this would be the case... well, it's silly, because I wouldn't spend that much money without making damn sure the car was right for me first.
And every game is "unfinished" to some degree. At some point you have to consider it "good enough" and leave it otherwise you'll just be pissing money away, fiddling with things ad infinitum. What you consider "good enough" may be different to someone else, and I suspect *very* different to the man who's paying the bills.
Actually, if you want to be very truthful about it, World of Warcraft has never been released "finished". Just look at the last expansion, WotLK. Ice Crown Citadel wasn't even in the the game when Wrath was released. You couldn't even fight the Lich King when it first game out and that was pinnacle of the expansion.
Dude, that was intentional. They said themselves that they wanted it to be the final major content patch before the next expansion so they wouldn't have a repeat of the Black Temple where it was released too soon and people were farming the expansion villain for well over a year.
So really if you want to get right down to it, people were able to play Wrath they way it was released and people are able to play Civ5 the way it was released. Patches and updates opened up more in Wrath and so I'm confident that patches and updates will open up more of Civ5.
WoTLK had minor content bugs. Civ5 has major bugs and serious mechanics issues. These are not the same things. Not even close.
Thoughtful Thug
Deity
Seeing the posts he had made, I assume he will stand with the empire-happiness feature. Look like the worst feature of the game will stay on during the course of a thousand patches in the future. *sigh*
