INI files: "defend"

[FinnMcCool]

I may have to look into this. If I can get my Poser to work, then I think I'm going to have some fun with a couple of units at this point! (It IS pretty much an extra "attack" animation, yes?)

I hope you post your final works publicly. I've noticed a strange tendancy to stay in the same pattern among unit makers. I have a great respect for unit makers, since I can't do it myself, but I've always wondered why they didn't make different INI files more varied...

Perhaps you could be instrumental in a paradigm shift.

 

[aaglo]

So did I get this? The DEFEND actually works? As an attack D?

Well... that's news to me ...

 

[Takhisis]

I always though it did... ever since I started learning how to mod on my own, before jining CFC...

 

[T.A JONES]

agglo use your sway and have this historic news published on the front page!!!
.Let the Je#ks at Fireaxis no were getting somewhere without em' oh and Drop Finn's Name for some well deserved creds for steppin up, along with anyone else who helped in the discovery.


NOTE: ( Im not really saying you should but it must be given some more expousure I think, Just so Civ4 players no whats up!)

 

[Stormrage]

I`m still not sure. As I understood there is no DEFINITE pattern? Sometimes its the last stand, sometimes its not.. ?

 

[Quinzy]

i think its when he loses a round.

 

[Virote_Considon]

I think that it's a kind of "Last Stand" attack animation that happens randomly in battle when a unit has lost 1 (or is it more than 1?) H.P. during battle. I dunno. I'd better "Experiament".

 

[Lord Malbeth]

I just tested the "Defend" thing, and it just doesn't want to work for me. Bummer.

 

[FinnMcCool]

Keep trying. It doesn't happen all the time after losing hit points. That's why I first thought it only happened when down to 1 hp. But after seeing it happen after losing only 1 (2 hp left) I realized it must be part of the turn-sequence.

I've *never* seen it happen in the first round though.

 

[Takhisis]

I´ll try finding someone from Firaxis and e-mailing him/her... might work.

 

[Spacer One]

Wow...all this time and a new discovery??? Im excited...

**runs off to test Defend**

[edit] after over 100 tests, I find no use of the Defend flc...

Here is how I ran my test...

2 units...
1 is 1/1(has defend flc...which is a different unit so I can see it if it happens)
2 is 2/2
both units given Blitz and many movement points to allow multiple attacks

3 preplacements
1(player) VS 2(Barb)
1(player) vs 1(Barb)
2(player) vs 1(Barb)

first I attacked with all my units...no defend
then I let the Barbs attack me...no defend...

I ran the test 3 times each way(10 units in each stack...so thats more than 100+ tests) and not ONCE did the defend Flc play...

is there some other parameter that Im missing?...I saw units attack at 1 hp, and defend at 1 hp(and many hp in between)...the flic never played...

if someone has made this work, please explain HOW

 

[mrtn]

Thanks for taking that time Spacer One.

 

[Spacer One]

not a problem, I was hoping that it would work...and Im willing to test more if I missed something...

I really want this to work, but I cant MAKE it happen

 

[aaglo]

I wonder if it might have some different effects, if either the defender has ranged attack and the attacker doesn't (or vise versa). Or if both attacker and defender use ranged attack OR normal attack.

 

[Spacer One]

good idea aaglo...new series of tests in the morning...

 

[Kyriakos]

You do realise that you cannot run all of the tests if you have no way of cancelling some possible parameters?
Otherwise you have to run an astronomical number of tests.

There are many variables, here are just a few:

--HP group--

All of the different HP relations. That is:
* 1,2,3,4,5,6 HP of attacker/defender (this alone means that there are some 36 different tests to be run)
* different starting HP (conscript unit, or just starting with less than 3 HP) of attacker/defender

Too bored to continue, but think of possible factors in the terrain of the attacker/defender, proximity to a city, wonder generated unit, unit defending against unit with special ability (eg enslave) etc. You need to know when/if the defender flc really appears, and then examine what was the case for its appearance.

 

[Spacer One]

while running the test, I know that I saw veterans vs conscripts...I saw most if not all of the HP variables you mentioned(I ran 60 tests three times)

some units started with full HP, or missing 1, or at 1 HP(due to multiple attacks)

Wonder generated unit shouldnt matter as the stats are the stats...there are no bonuses for being generated from a wonder...and I plan on running "special ability" tests in the morning(to tired now to set upi the BIQ)

I will take the terrain into concideration...and do the test on grass/hills/and mountains...as well as in city limits, and defending/attacking a city...if you can think of other specific variables let me know... I plan on THOROUGHLY testing this to determine exacly how/if it can be used

other than bombard, capture, enslave...what other special abilities might affect the outcome???

Varwnos, you do realize that I ran a 60 unit test(10 units vs 10 units in stacks...3 seperate battles) 3 times??? thats nearly 200 different attempts and not ONCE did it happen??? I doubt the variables are that specific...but I will continue testing

 

[Kyriakos]

I am not doubting your thoroughness, just noting that it is possible that the defend.ini is triggered only in very specific conditions, and therefore it would be hard to meet them.

If we assume the worst, ie that it is triggered only in one condition, then this one condition could be one in: 6 times 6 (stats) times 3 (AI attacking you, you attacking the AI, AI attacking AI) times 2 (conscript, non conscript) times 2 (city square/non city square) times (1+x) (x being the number of different special abilities a unit can have) times who knows how many else variables. But already these alone make you need to run a series of 36times3times2times2times(1+x)times2y= 432x (so it is in the thousants, and these are not the only variables)
So you should not try to do this.

ps: if you also try to factor the terrains into this (and it is quite logical to do so) then it becomes 432x times a huge factor, since the possibility a unit is in a specific terrain and is attacking/defending another unit in another specific terrain is 1/the number of terrains times 1/the number of terrains. Iirc there are more than 10 different terrains. This means 0.1 times 0.1=0,01. In other words for 10 different terrains there are 100 different possibilities. So it is 432xsquarepowerofY. Oh, also add the existence of a fortress, and you have another 4 possibilities (fort-no fort, fort-fort, no fort-fort, no fort-no fort). So now you have 691200x cases to test (but if and only if the different terrains are only 10; else you will need to run a few more thousant tests to be sure- or rather a few more million, if you factor x as well)

Instead look if anyone ever has seen it happen, and only then calculate which variables are automatically cancelled

 

[T.A JONES]

I thought its primarily used when a worker is being taking into captivity/ the animation where the worker's arms are raised in a "defend' position as the offensive unit is about to seeze him. You can see it when a captured worker is recaptured to.

So woudn't you have to have a unit that can be captured or traded for it to work.​

 

[Spacer One]

Ok...after asking some other people I know, we accidently noticed that the "Defend" command doesnt appear in any "non-combat" unit(worker/settler that is made by firaxis...so it is not a capture animation...

also, take a look at the ICBM INI, it has many commands that dont make sense

now back to testing...Varwnos, I am dismayed at your negativity...the tests really wont take that long...alot of the variables you mention are easily replicated, and testing is the only way to determine if it works...until I SEE it happen, I wont believe it anyway, Im a dork like that

The terrain issue is easily dealt with during the preplacement, also I can use 1 unit and just add several named versions to a BIQ...using the defend slot for a random flc...I will run the tests dont you worry(I ran 180 tests last night, whats another 1000??)