Insane but real future tech
- Thread starter blackheart
- Start date
Narz
keeping it real
That's pretty cool if it's for real.
And oh man are those newscasters not funny.
And oh man are those newscasters not funny.
Esox
In Search of Inspirado
Another thread today had this link. Perhaps this could be a Future Tech for warmongers in the next Civ update. 
http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_060518_camo,,00.html?ESRC=soldiertech.nl
http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_060518_camo,,00.html?ESRC=soldiertech.nl
I'm suspicious. He starts off with water, and ends with water yet somehow gets energy out? 
I think there is another fuel source required (maybe electricity) which would make this breakthrough almost useless.
BTW what exactly is HHO gas?
I think there is another fuel source required (maybe electricity) which would make this breakthrough almost useless.BTW what exactly is HHO gas?
tomsnowman123
Simple Liver
Truronian said:
Water vapor?
Esox
In Search of Inspirado
@Narz, I'm curious- of all the great characters in that film, why choose that one for your avatar?
(off topic, yes, but that's the forum we're in...)
(off topic, yes, but that's the forum we're in...)
tomsnowman123 said:
No, thats still H20
I wikied it, and it seems the guy made it up!
This is the wiki article on it, looks to be pseudo-science to me. Curse ye Fox!!
EDIT: Reread the article, it wasn't actually this guy that made up HHO, but I have to say it screams of dodgy made-up gas.
MrCynical
Deity
Ugh, this looks highly suspicious to me. "HHO" gas doesn't mean anything sensible in chemical terms, and the other references to it seem well in the realm of hoaxes. The comments about combining "the power of hydrogen" and "chemical stability of oxygen" also fall into the category of unscientific rubbish. Even if you did somehow manage to create monoatomic hydrogen or oxygen (or both) by electrolysis, they'd spontaneously recombine (in a potentially very violent fashion) in a tiny fraction of a second. Monoatomic hydrogen and oxygen simply aren't stable enough for this.
This magic welding torch of his seems to be defying basic thermodynamics. If it's emitting a flame that will melt brass it requires a high temperature, and neither the flame or nozzle can possibly feel only "slightly warm" to the touch. It doesn't matter what the fuel source is; you can't make a flame which magically cools down when you happen to touch it, but then spontaneously becomes much hotter when you want it to melt metal.
Even if it was possible to make this magic "HHO gas" by electrolysis of water, since water is the final product, this cannot be used as an energy source. Any energy would be coming from the original electrolysis process, not from the water. I suppose it might make a better fuel store than oil if it was real, but from what I know of chemistry and thermodynamics, this looks like made up garbage.
This magic welding torch of his seems to be defying basic thermodynamics. If it's emitting a flame that will melt brass it requires a high temperature, and neither the flame or nozzle can possibly feel only "slightly warm" to the touch. It doesn't matter what the fuel source is; you can't make a flame which magically cools down when you happen to touch it, but then spontaneously becomes much hotter when you want it to melt metal.
Even if it was possible to make this magic "HHO gas" by electrolysis of water, since water is the final product, this cannot be used as an energy source. Any energy would be coming from the original electrolysis process, not from the water. I suppose it might make a better fuel store than oil if it was real, but from what I know of chemistry and thermodynamics, this looks like made up garbage.
Narz
keeping it real
We're still supposed to stay on the "off" topic of the thread though (although most of our top posters often behave otherwise). I'll PM you.Esox said:
Edit : it seems I can't PM me - turn your Private Messeges on
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
it would be called HHO and not H20 if the molecule bonded together differently. If he used electrolysis to create it from water, then the H atoms have extra electrons, that's why it can do what it does. I bet its called HHO because the two Hydrogens are bonded, and then one of them is attached to the Oxygen.Either that, or it coud be that the extra electrons int he molecule cause it to stop being so polarized, and the Hydrogens drift away from the tetrahedral structural shape. So its not really water when its 'burning,' but as it reacts with whatever it burns, its gives away those electrons, and goes back to good old water again.
7ronin
海軍少佐
Ah yes, reliable Fox news. Gotta love the "atomic power of hydrogen."
embitteredpoet
Chieftain
@ Cheezy the Wiz, not to be obstreperous, but a doubly bonded Hydrogen?
MrCynical
Deity
So basically you'd have the structure H----H(+)----O(-)? That isn't going to be stable for any significant length of time, it'll just rearrange back to water in a tiny fraction of a second.
If you're proposing just adding electrons to water, without breaking bonds to give the weird double bonded hydrogen, then the electron(s) will have to be added to the 3a1 antibonding molecular orbital, which is much higher in energy than the largely non-bonding 1b1 orbital that the highest energy electrons of water occupy. You could improve the situation slightly by compressing the bond angle to 90 degrees, but adding these electrons will still greatly weaken the H-O bonds. This simply isn't going to remain stable for any significant length of time (though yes it will release some energy when it drops back to the ground state of water). As I've said, water would not be acting as a fuel here, but a (very short term) energy store in any case.
There is absolutely nothing in this video clip which cannot be explained as follows:
He electrolyses water by the normal process to give a stoichiometric mixture of H2 gas and O2 in a 2:1 ratio. He then burns the two conventionally in a torch to give heat and water as a product. There's no need for any weird gases here, he's just making hydrogen by electrolysis and immediately burning it again (very inefficient energy wise I suspect). This gives neither a good fuel source or store.
My skepticism is increased by the ridiculous claims of a "slightly warm" flame that can melt metal. Heat is heat, whether you're burning H2, oil, coal, wood, diamond or weird made up substances. If it doesn't produce enough heat to burn you, it's not going to make much impression on brass. The nozzle not getting hot would be a feature of the nozzle design, not the fuel. Heat will conduct equally well, whatever its source.
Xenocrates
Deity
It's been a while since I did chemistry but this technology appears to break the bonding rules that we all know and love. He also appears to be getting 'free energy'.
This leaves only two possibilities:
1) He's a witch.
2) Everything we know is wrong.
This leaves only two possibilities:
1) He's a witch.
2) Everything we know is wrong.
blackheart
unenlightened
Xenocrates said:It's been a while since I did chemistry but this technology appears to break the bonding rules that we all know and love. He also appears to be getting 'free energy'.
This leaves only two possibilities:
1) He's a witch.
2) Everything we know is wrong.
I wasn't closely scrutinizing the first time I watched it, but for a few flickers you can see a black cat and a pentagram superimposed in the video
Eukaryote
Deity
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDE
WOW
WOW
CruddyLeper
Unworshipped Deity
OK. Here's how'
1) First the water is electrolyzed into seperate H2 and 02 molecules. This seperation continues right up to the nozzle tip.
2) Next both sets of molecules are ionized into H+ H+ and O- ions.
These get fed out to the nozzle and reignited past the tip. Hydro thermic lance.
It's a great invention, but all it's really doing is storing electricity as ionised gas - great idea. But it doesn't solve the energy problems because you still have to make the electricity which makes the process work.
Oh, ionized Hyrdrogen creates all sorts of problems with engine blocks and pistons. Tends to rot them very quickly. Stainless steel is only solution I've heard to that problem.
1) First the water is electrolyzed into seperate H2 and 02 molecules. This seperation continues right up to the nozzle tip.
2) Next both sets of molecules are ionized into H+ H+ and O- ions.
These get fed out to the nozzle and reignited past the tip. Hydro thermic lance.
It's a great invention, but all it's really doing is storing electricity as ionised gas - great idea. But it doesn't solve the energy problems because you still have to make the electricity which makes the process work.
Oh, ionized Hyrdrogen creates all sorts of problems with engine blocks and pistons. Tends to rot them very quickly. Stainless steel is only solution I've heard to that problem.
MrCynical
Deity
How? The nozzle looks fairly standard, and seems to have no device to input the energy needed to do this to a significant percentage of the H2O molecules. And in any case, what's the point? H2 and O2 will burn quite happily on their own, without without wasting vast amounts of energy ionising them first.
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