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Insane Population Strategy

fmlizard2

Prince
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
424
So I got a little bored of following the tried-and-true path across the top of the tech tree. I'll still admit it is probably the most efficient way through the game and the dominant strategy for most Civs at this point. But, for those who want to try something different...I tried out something last night on an Immortal pangaea that was at least...different.

I picked the Aztecs, who I still find to be a poor civ choice. However, they give the max impact of any Civ for this approach. India would also be a fantastic choice. Siam would probably rank #3.

I spawned in a jungle/river/lake area, perfect for the Aztecs. I went Archery and immediately went Temple of Artemis, adding my first +10% :c5food: modifier in all cities. From there, I went Wheel to get the Floating Gardens unlocked (Aztec only). Took +15% :c5food: more in capital, plus turned my 5 lake tiles into +4 :c5food:. Built a Granary (+4 :c5food: with two deer).

From there, it was filling in a couple resource techs (mining, calendar) then immediately to Mathematics so I could start on Hanging Gardens. Hanging Gardens came in around turn 60-65, giving me another +10 :c5food: All the while, I was filling up Tradition, getting another +4 :c5food: and +25% :c5food: growth in Tenochtitlan. Then, I went into We Love the King Day. That is +75% :c5food: growth and +30 raw :c5food: (in addition to my general terrain) if you are keeping score, all before turn 70.

From there, it was directly on to Engineering, where I hit Medieval and unlocked Aqueducts. After that, it was on to Writing and Philosophy and NC and all of that.

The population was simply unbelievable. It was out of hand. After all that :c5food:mongering and aqueducts, my population was growing at a rate of 1 citizen per 2-3 turns. Of course, :c5happy: was an issue, but the production power of Tenochtitlan was unreal. By the Renaissance I was upwards of 30 population in the capital.

Sure, I was behind on :c5science: for awhile (did eventually take a big :c5science: lead due to sheer population) and it probably isn't the true optimal approach. But if you want to build an absurd megacity, this is the way...
 
If you skip the aqueduct and go straight for education after math (and lux techs of course) via theology for the Hagia Sophia, it might be more optimal. Of course, the chance of getting all these wonders goes down with difficulty, but it seems like a strong strategy (I haven't bought the wonder pack yet).
 
If you skip the aqueduct and go straight for education after math (and lux techs of course) via theology for the Hagia Sophia, it might be more optimal. Of course, the chance of getting all these wonders goes down with difficulty, but it seems like a strong strategy (I haven't bought the wonder pack yet).

You know, I think I might have gone Philosophy (and NC) before Engineering...but I know I took Engineering as my first Medieval tech. I did build Hagia Sophia (in something crazy like 8 turns) but I used my GE on Notre Dame, for obvious :c5happy: reasons. Missed PT then by 2 turns.

This was an Immortal game...probably wouldn't fly consistently on Deity (15-20% chance), but I would say you have at least a 50/50 shot of pulling this in a given Immortal game, and at least 75/25 on Emperor. King and below, you can set your watch to it.
 
A player made this strategy with Aztecs in a mp game and got like 32 :c5citizen: around 1400 AD. He only had 2 little satellite cities and i had 8 cities(3 of mine). We both teched hard in this game and we fought with artillery and rifles for a while.

It was a fight between Tall and Wide empires.
 
You know, I think I might have gone Philosophy (and NC) before Engineering...but I know I took Engineering as my first Medieval tech. I did build Hagia Sophia (in something crazy like 8 turns) but I used my GE on Notre Dame, for obvious :c5happy: reasons. Missed PT then by 2 turns.

This was an Immortal game...probably wouldn't fly consistently on Deity (15-20% chance), but I would say you have at least a 50/50 shot of pulling this in a given Immortal game, and at least 75/25 on Emperor. King and below, you can set your watch to it.

I don't know about Artemis since I don't have the wonders DLC (and don't really intend to get it for a while) but even on deity, if the hanging gardens isn't gone by turn 40-50, you can generally build it any time in the next 50 turns. I've been thinking of doing an Aztec deity OCC culture LP after I finish Songhai, so maybe I'd beeline Philosophy for NC, then Oracle and rush math for the Hanging Gardens if it's still around (following my rule of thumb above). I'll have to play around with it first though.

edit: or maybe Oracle then NC, since the Oracle is so key for culture games and gets you to the tradition finisher (FOOD!! Me want FOOOD!) that much faster.
 
I enjoy food/population games. One of my favorite games is just to play as Aztecs on a lake map and just go for every possible food modifier in the game. Food just becomes outrageous and your cities grow incredibly fast. Everything just turns into a production/specialist powerhouse. Really fun. I'll try going to Aquaducts before going to Education next time, see how that works out.
 
I don't know about Artemis since I don't have the wonders DLC (and don't really intend to get it for a while) but even on deity, if the hanging gardens isn't gone by turn 40-50, you can generally build it any time in the next 50 turns.

Yeah that's weird, Hanging Gardens tends to go early or really late, I don't know why. In my current (immortal) game as hiawatha, I went for maths quite late and still managed to get the Gardens, which is an incredible wonder for the Irriquois
 
How does population == production? It sounds like the OP landed on a food rich, production poor land plot (lots of jungle/grassland). Since there isn't a whipping strategy like in civ4, I'm confused on how high populations == high production.

I'm still fairly new to the game (only played 6 games on Prince so far) and I'd like to start playing more varied games. I'm still stuck on many cities == win.
 
How does population == production? It sounds like the OP landed on a food rich, production poor land plot (lots of jungle/grassland). Since there isn't a whipping strategy like in civ4, I'm confused on how high populations == high production.

I'm still fairly new to the game (only played 6 games on Prince so far) and I'd like to start playing more varied games. I'm still stuck on many cities == win.

Population = production in the sense that you can work more tiles. In my start I had a couple hills, a couple stone quarries, and a few forests in my 3 tile ring. When at a low population you have to make choices about whether you want to work those :c5production: tiles or work those :c5food: tiles. A 20 population city with a bunch of 1-2 :c5production: tiles can produce as many :c5production: as a 10 pop city with a bunch of mines...and do so while still growing.

By the time you get to 25-30 population, you can basically work every tile possible, plus use up your specialist slots. Engineer specialists contribute :c5production: (and all do with Statue of Liberty), but the real boost you will notice from specialists is in :c5science: and great people acquisition. High population cities are typically great people machines.
 
Understood. I didn't know about the stone quarries and hills. Specialists contributing :c5production: is a big time bonus thanks to SoL. Thanks for the info.
 
I tried this albeit not in as optimised a way as you did; part of an Egypt wonder spamming game (I lucked out and had marble as a starting luxury as well).

Despite my capital being in a fairly crap area for food production (mostly plains) I succeeded in building ToA and Hanging Gardens both, and it had grown to a size 52 city by the time I won the game, with my second and third cities both also growing past size 40. It was still growing at a ludicrous pace at this point due to me having enough gold to ally with every maritime city state on the (huge) map.

I found a useful step is to go from tradition to piety to freedom, unlocking the half food specialists and - unhappiness from specialists ASAP when trying this.
 
I've managed 150 million people in my empire by game end, which I thought was good. Has anyone racked up over 1 billion people?
 
Here are some screens from my latest pangea normal speed deity game ...

Policies


Opened with Tradition - liberty - citizenship - aristocracy to get HG ...
Filled out tradition after that ...Rationalism & Freedom opener , Going towards scientific revolution

Starting Tech plan
- Mining, Pottery, Writing, AH, The Wheel, Archery, Mathematics


Starting Build order
[strong food emphasis - had 7 pop when building HG]

Monument, Worker, Granary, Library, Floating Gardens, Archer, Jaguar, HG, NC, ..

Wonders HG (T61 late), GL (T88 :lol:), HS[T99 dicey], PT[105 late] & Notre Dame[116 late]


Wars - Germans decced me around T30 .. been at war ever since - wonderful source of culture. The incans decced a bit later but didn't send many troops. Both civz are now getting taken out by other AIs..


CS - Had 2 maritime CS allied pretty much the whole game (shared targeted barbarian camp :D) ...

Victory condition ? Probably going for science at this point (T 195...) .. I was not able to capitalize on the production power of the capital and conquer any cities [not much of a warmonger :blush:]- stood on the defensive [always a bit behind on tech...] -> Now I'm sitting on 5 GS, have 4 RA going and hopefully a LATE LATE science victory is still in the cards...

Military at turn 195 lacks the funds for upgrades to rifles and cannons
3 Riflemen + 2LS all ultra-promoted [blitz+march] from jaguars
3 Crossbows (2 with logistics and extra range)
4 Trebuchets (not very experienced)
1 newbie Pikeman

Been defending against Riflemen and Infantry for a while now... Maybe when I make the science push towards Apollo Program my MechInf will net me some late cities [If I don't get nuked into oblivion first ]...


Turn 136 Full tradition, HG, floating gardens & We love the king
Spoiler :
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T 195 Full tradition, HG, floating gardens
Spoiler :
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T 193 empire overview
Spoiler :
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Spoiler :
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I won that game with a science victory on turn 271 [a new record for a deity win for me ]... Once I managed to upgrade the ultra-promoted jaguars to riflemen defense become a breeze - the two artillery like[range, indirect fire, logistics] crossbows helped a lot ... Later on I even flipped a city from Bismark and sold it to Suleiman for 500 :c5gold: :D ...

Here's the inside picture of the capital on the last turn ...

Spoiler :
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Spoiler :
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Very impressive. Makes me want to start my next game with a small/tall empire in mind. I've been playing with semi-tall very wide empires for all my Civ5 games so far (I'm still trying to escape my Civ4 mind).
 
I tried this strategy on Lakes map, Immortal difficulty, Standard settings otherwise. I just get bored as Monty lol. I even had archers posted up at barb camps just raking in the culture. I had the tradition and honor branches filled out before renaissance lol. I just don't care for the Aztecs as a Civ. Nothing about them really gets me going. I settled 3 other cities, 4 total, and had DoW around turn 120 by Germany and I wrecked him with ease.

I think it's just that I don't care much for domination games...
 
Here are some screens from my latest pangea normal speed deity game ...

Policies


Opened with Tradition - liberty - citizenship - aristocracy to get HG ...
Filled out tradition after that ...Rationalism & Freedom opener , Going towards scientific revolution

Starting Tech plan
- Mining, Pottery, Writing, AH, The Wheel, Archery, Mathematics


Starting Build order
[strong food emphasis - had 7 pop when building HG]

Monument, Worker, Granary, Library, Floating Gardens, Archer, Jaguar, HG, NC, ..

Wonders HG (T61 late), GL (T88 :lol:), HS[T99 dicey], PT[105 late] & Notre Dame[116 late]


Wars - Germans decced me around T30 .. been at war ever since - wonderful source of culture. The incans decced a bit later but didn't send many troops. Both civz are now getting taken out by other AIs..


CS - Had 2 maritime CS allied pretty much the whole game (shared targeted barbarian camp :D) ...

Victory condition ? Probably going for science at this point (T 195...) .. I was not able to capitalize on the production power of the capital and conquer any cities [not much of a warmonger :blush:]- stood on the defensive [always a bit behind on tech...] -> Now I'm sitting on 5 GS, have 4 RA going and hopefully a LATE LATE science victory is still in the cards...

Military at turn 195 lacks the funds for upgrades to rifles and cannons
3 Riflemen + 2LS all ultra-promoted [blitz+march] from jaguars
3 Crossbows (2 with logistics and extra range)
4 Trebuchets (not very experienced)
1 newbie Pikeman

Been defending against Riflemen and Infantry for a while now... Maybe when I make the science push towards Apollo Program my MechInf will net me some late cities [If I don't get nuked into oblivion first ]...


Turn 136 Full tradition, HG, floating gardens & We love the king
Spoiler :
attachment.php


T 195 Full tradition, HG, floating gardens
Spoiler :
attachment.php



T 193 empire overview
Spoiler :
attachment.php


Spoiler :
attachment.php

can someone explain the apparent inconsistency in these popups with re: to food? for example, near the middle of the first popup in the first spoiler, there is a line that says "Base food 20 (51 - 38 eaten by population)"...or similar...this doesn't look right to me...
 
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