Inspired by ALC: Qin Shi Huang - SE - Culture Win

[Pellanor]

As the title says, I'm playing as Qin Shi Huang, using a SE going for a cultural victory. This was inspired by the ALC, and I'll be using a similar format for my posts.

Round 0: 4000 BC
Round 1: 4000 BC - 3200 BC
Round 2: 3200 BC - 2200 BC
Round 3: 2200 BC - 725 BC
Round 4: 725 BC - 425 AD
Old preamble below

I'd like to run a game along the lines of ALC and other's that I've seen here where I post up what's happening and all sorts of crazy advise is given after each round. I've been struggling a lot in recent games, so I figure this would be a great way for me to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

I'll be starting the game when I get home from work. Until then I'd like to get some general advise.

First off, I'd like to go for a Cultural Victory power by a SE and Sid's Sushi. Any suggestions for a leader?
I've been considering Qin Shi Huang, using Industrious to help get the early Pyramids and other wonders, and the Pavilion for the extra culture.
Another one I've been looking at is Justinia for the happy theatres, as well as the extra novelty of being a new civ.
Finally I've been thinking of one of the Greeks or Suleiman for a philosophical leader that I haven't played before (Americans and Natives don't count, as I don't like them).

Something else I've been considering is the difficulty. I can often win on Noble, but have been struggling on Prince. I've been planning on playing on Prince, but since I'll be getting all sorts of great advise from the lot of you, should I consider boosting it up further to Monarch?

Oh yeah, the map will likely be standard Big + Small, with the "choose religions" option on.

Finally, if anybody can come up with a catchier thread name, I'm open to suggestions.

 

[madscientist]

How about "I'll win peacefully through Culture even If I have to kill everyone else!"

My first choice would be Qin, because he is industrious and the Pagoda. Beeline the normal early wonders. Build the parthanon, statue of Zues and any other GA point wonders in the GP farm city. Both are easy to get for an industrious leader on Monarch (hey I can do it) if you beeline aesthetics.

Pericles is another good choice, I do like creative leaders for a culture victory every little bit adds up.

I think Ghandi is the textbook culture AI because of Phil/Spir and early religions. Louis also.

To get Sid's suchi you may want to beeline economics and the free merchant before you hit liberalism, or use liberalism to get econimics first. It does depend on the resources, there are 2 others that creat culture.

 

[LlamaCat]

I'm playing a game as Justinian right now and I noticed to my chagrin that his unique building, which replaces the theater, does not allow artist specialists... what the hey?! anyway something to consider if you are going for a culture victory. it's kind of strange because those specialists are really vital if you capture a city and need to quickly get some culture going. apparently you can't run artists until broadcast towers playing as Justinian.

 

[Sisiutil]

Philosophical leaders are great for cultural victories, as you can likely generate more Great Artists and use them for Great Works in whichever of your three cities needs the boost most.

Try to build the Sistine Chapel. The +2 culture per specialist can really help.

Target Caste System as well so you can run artist specialists like crazy. Pick locations for your 3 cultural cities that have excellent food supplies, farm as many tiles as you can manage, and run artist specialists out your yin-yang.

Elizabeth might be a good leader for this. Besides being Philosophical, her Financial trait and UB will ensure you can keep up with the other, non-cultural (i.e. military) techs that you'll need to keep your sensitive artistic types safe from invasion. Not to mention the Redcoats. I love those guys.

 

[Pellanor]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I've tried Ghandi and Elizibeth before, and would like to try something new.

By the way, my monitor is 1920x1024, so should I scale down the screencaps I take or leave them at full size?

edit: I must be smoking something... 1280x1024. Not sure where I got the 1960 from...

 

[Hackapell]

Try this: take Pericles, and set up a normal SE. Divert all funds to culture. Invest in a large army as a deterrance, and switch to FR asap to get religions. use Pericles cheap culture buildings, like the Odeon and Theatre, to assist. That would be really cool.
Edit: and scale down the screenies to 800x600.

 

[Quornix]

Scale down any screen caps. I'd put 1024x768 as the max to post, and possibly 800x600 (for people running at 1024x768) Remember, there's other stuff on the screen that will make people have to scroll even if they are running your resolution, and you're running a pretty high res anyway.

Of course, since you're running widescreen, I'd put the max width at 1024, then scale the height accordingly.

 

[Pellanor]

Okay, I've decided to give China a shot. Possibly not the best choice, but I'd like to make good use of some wonders too.

Here's the settings.

And our start location.

Now this is the part where I struggle the most, and will be looking for the most advise. My early game is the suck.

At this point I'd probably settle one square to the north, in order to get the cow in my fat cross. I'd start on a second warrior and begin researching fishing, to grab those clam. Once fishing was done I would build a work boat while beelining Monothism. In the mean time I would be building a second workboat followed by a settler to build my second city.

Any thoughts?

edit: attached saved game, in case anybody's interested in shadowing me. Remember, no spoilers.

 

[madscientist]

If I recall china starts with mining and agriculture, I say start with BW, that open grassland could be a fast copper source. I would send the warrio to the north hill and see if there are more hills there. If you move you lose 2 nice hills on the southern continent which is OK if you get the cows, but not if the three northen tiles are bum. I would concentrate on the later religions too, confucism definitely and taoism with a PHIL lightbulb. Maybe a theology bulb also. But try for a defensive tech first and BW is the best since you start with mining, then fishing.

That's my input.

 

[petey]

I agree with moving 1N to settle. You put the Cows in your BFC and keep all the Clams and preserve a forest for chopping. Also, you can put your Worker onto all of your city's tiles without having to put him on a boat.

With Mining and Agriculture, you've got nothing for a Worker to do yet, so I'd research Fishing while building a Warrior and then a Work Boat to grab one of the Clams while researching BW and AH and then put a Worker out. Then go for the Oracle gambit to pick up Code of Laws for the religion and Caste System.

 

[madscientist]

The only thing I would be concerned about is the empty grassland amongst all those forrests. Sort of screams out that "Hey there's a non-visable resource here". If it's copper, horses, or iron you'll kick yourself since you won't be able to work the tile in the city screen. You are industious, I would max the production for Bejing. The north of the cows looks like jungle, so the adjacent could be too. I know cows are hard to pass up.

 

[ShredZ]

Might be worth it then to assume the grassland is copper and just head straight up the grassland hills for extra defense of a hills city. My experience with BtS so far indicates that you may get anphib. assaulted by the AI and the hills means you might not lose yer capital, either way, be careful.

Obviously this would save the southern clam for your 2nd or 3rd city.

Fishing first, warrior first.

 

[madscientist]

But that would lose alot of hills. Qin is industrious. And there is no guarentee the grassland is a resource.

 

[Shoot the Moon]

I would move the warrior 1 NW before deciding where to settle. I would then settle either 1N or N-NW. I think two work boats is over doing it. One and then either a settler or worker. I disagree with beelining Monotheism. You don't need an early religion (we should be first to CoL to get the SE economy going anyway). It doesn't give anything that you really need. I would instead beeline either Alphabet or Bronze Working depending on who your neighbors are and how many of them you have.

 

[oyzar]

Just settle in place.

 

[mice]

That's a production giant. Chop the pyramids there. Later run mills or workshops.

 

[vicawoo]

warrior 1 NW. Settling in place means 3 inaccessible tiles. I'm inclined to go 1 N, if nothing changes, although the hill for defense is nice thinking.

I like worker first, switch to boats when you get fishing, finish worker (maybe grow first if bronze working isn't up yet, chop/whip settler. Fishing/bronze working. This is my fish opening.

 

[madscientist]

warrior 1 NW. Settling in place means 3 inaccessible tiles. I'm inclined to go 1 N, if nothing changes, although the hill for defense is nice thinking.

I like worker first, switch to boats when you get fishing, finish worker (maybe grow first if bronze working isn't up yet, chop/whip settler. Fishing/bronze working. This is my fish opening.

The three tiles on the other continent are accessable, especially the 3 hammer hill. You just need a Galley. Your not going to be working every tile right away .

 

[Shoot the Moon]

Yeah, but if you settle in place, you don't get the cow. And who knows when we're gonna get sailing (I'd rather not waste beakers to have to get a tech just to be able to move a worker). 1N or N-NW look a lot better to me.

 

[Pellanor]

Sorry about the lack of updates. Haven't been able to get around to Civ yet this weekend.


I decided to settle in place. Looks like heading north would have lost me some forest.

Started researching fishing and building a worker. When fishing was researched I switched over to a work boat. Got that finished and am back to a worker, which will be done the turn after I get BW.

Four goodie huts in the nearby area got me 41 gold, a scout, a map and mysticism.

Christianity and Judaism have been founded.
I met the Persians. A scout of theirs came down from the north.

Lost my scout to a wolf + panther attack. :'(

Met the Portuguese as well. They seem to have come from the west.

I also have Greeks up north.

Mongolians too.

Here's a look at the known world.

So here I sit in 3200. I've gotten BW, Fishing and Mysticism. A fish boat on Clams, and am one turn from a worker.

I'm still only size 1, so I haven't switched over to slavery yet. I'm planning on chopping a settler next, though I'm not quite sure where to put my second city.

It's a little tempting to go way off the the west, in order to claim the stone to help out with the pyramids. The floodplains + rice on the next continent looks nice, but that'll have to wait until I get sailing. I also like the Gold, Cow and Wheat to the south, but am not a big fan of all the plains and desert that goes along with it. Any suggestions for a second city location?

My warrior is currently headed toward the the interior, by the silk and corn, to try to reveal more map. Looks like there's lots of jungle around there. I'll be able to get some really good cities once I've got iron working to clear out all that jungle.

And of course, here's the save game file.