Interesting Panel on the Chinese Navy

Arctic Daishi

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An interesting panel hosted by the U.S. Naval Institute. It's about the People's Liberation Army Navy and it's growing influence in East Asia and the world. It also covers how China's growing influence is causing many Asian countries to turn to the United States as a friend.


Link to video.

Perhaps the best quote from the panel:
Captain James Fanell said:
Predictably China's conduct is destabilizing the East Asian maritime environment. As we witness the concerns of China's neighbors reflected in the responses and interactions with the US pacific fleet. It was like someone had flipped a diplomatic switch. Before that in 2007 we weren't particularly popular in East Asia. We had trouble getting port calls or landing permission for or aircraft. Beijing's conduct have turned that around, East Asia now remember why they like America.
 
Is that why east as upon nations are abandoning the status quo and realigning themselves? Because Americ's interests are threatened?
 
America's interests are not automatically less valid than Chinese interests. The world is not a group hug. I would think a bunch of civilization players would be the last people to be in denial about this.
 
Nobody said anyone's interests are less valid, only that in the case of the interests of other East Asian nations they are increasingly falling in line with ours. That shouldn't surpise anyone with China claiming every island they find on the map.
 
squadbroken said:
Destabilizing = anything that doesn't mesh with American interests

Huh? This benefits the United States. The Chinese are in the process of reminding a whole bunch of American allies - and potential allies - of the value of having the United States in the region. It's as Chinese own-goal and requires zero American input other than a shoulder to cry on.
 
Is that why east as upon nations are abandoning the status quo and realigning themselves? Because Americ's interests are threatened?

Man, you've got to stop posting from your iPhone.:lol:
 
No kidding.

Start using Desktops again. It's what God intended.
 
Damn heathen iphones everywhere. Anyways, I agree from what I have read on this issue as Chinese claims grow and its neighbours grow more weary we will see more cooperation with our navy.

What geopolitical concerns China has at the moment are still relatively domestic tied in nature, costing us little in response and further strengthening our ties. Nothing to particularly note of... yet
 
Man, you've got to stop posting from your iPhone.:lol:

Ha, yeah, it's a menace.

The one thing I don't understand about China in this case is why they chose to sacrifice the good will of their neighbors for these islands. Yes they extend their EEZ but honestly it's not like these bodies of water are virgin landscapes ready for lucrative exploitation. I would have thought they would flex their muscle where it might pay dividends like Africa or the Middle East/Central Asia.
 
They are already in Africa. I believe they are building vast infrastructure products in exchange for access to valuable resources in lieu of Western multi-nationals. Still, i agree with the point they seem to be herding their neighbours into a nice Anti-Chinese bloc for little gain. I suspect it might be an internal power play between different factions of the Party. It might be a nice little tap to channel Chinese nationalism into something tangible.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a piece of paper in Beijing with a plan to take over the world over a 200 year peroid. They are messed up.
 
Based on the few limited shots of the audience, there doesn't appear to be anybody there.

Originally Posted by Captain James Fanell
Predictably China's conduct is destabilizing the East Asian maritime environment. As we witness the concerns of China's neighbors reflected in the responses and interactions with the US pacific fleet. It was like someone had flipped a diplomatic switch. Before that in 2007 we weren't particularly popular in East Asia. We had trouble getting port calls or landing permission for or aircraft. Beijing's conduct have turned that around, East Asia now remember why they like America.
So some East Asian countries supposedly perceive China to be a graver potential thread of imperialism and hegemony in the region than the US has proven to be? And he bases this on the willingness of some countries in the region to now allow US warships to take liberty in their cities when they haven't before?

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a piece of paper in Beijing with a plan to take over the world over a 200 year peroid. They are messed up.
I guess you haven't yet heard that the Domino Theory was discredited long ago. That the Cold War has now been over for far more than 20 years.
 
Ha, yeah, it's a menace.

The one thing I don't understand about China in this case is why they chose to sacrifice the good will of their neighbors for these islands. Yes they extend their EEZ but honestly it's not like these bodies of water are virgin landscapes ready for lucrative exploitation. I would have thought they would flex their muscle where it might pay dividends like Africa or the Middle East/Central Asia.

Maybe it's something for their populace to focus on, directing their attention externally instead of internally.
 
Those who are saying that this plays right into America's hands are probably right. Who else are they going to turn to? Russia?

What's interesting I think is how exactly all of this is going to unfold, as China's power and influence grows. There are a couple potential unresolved border issues that could at some point in the future turn into hotspots too.
 
No kidding.

Start using Desktops again. It's what God intended.
Your one-liners have quickly made you one of my favourite posters.

Ha, yeah, it's a menace.

The one thing I don't understand about China in this case is why they chose to sacrifice the good will of their neighbors for these islands. Yes they extend their EEZ but honestly it's not like these bodies of water are virgin landscapes ready for lucrative exploitation. I would have thought they would flex their muscle where it might pay dividends like Africa or the Middle East/Central Asia.
The Chinese are positively paranoid re: territorial integrity. Even after the return of Hong Kong, there is still a distinct fear in their culture about being forced into unequal treaties again.

Many of these disputed territories are territories that were claimed by China before the collapse of the empire, and since the CCP is quite openly utilising nationalism to deal with the obvious social dislocation caused by the abandonment of communism, this has the potential to backfire on them and force them into dangerous diplomatic confrontations they'd prefer to avoid. There were a series of violent demonstrations against Japan a few years ago which coincided with an attempt by the CCP to negotiate a new commercial treaty with Japan, for example, which was most embarrassing to Beijing.

There are a range of issues forcing the Chinese to be far more territorially aggressive than would seem wise, especially as regards South Korea, which the CCP has spent over a decade attempting to slowly detach from the US-Japan alliance.

The big issue, of course, is Taiwan. China literally cannot afford to recognise Taiwanese independence; it would undermine the very foundation of the Chinese state. China is comprised of several different ethnic groups, many of whom have pro-independence movements, the obvious example being Tibet. The CCP fears that if they back down on Taiwan, they will be forced, either through political pressure or outright rebellion, to relinquish control of the several autonomous regions with pro-independence factions. As such, they feel the need to behave aggressively in the several island chains they claim, as even though they likely don't care about the islands themselves, backing down over even a single one of their claims could set a precedent for the independence of Taiwan. That is something the Chinese simply cannot allow.

Those who are saying that this plays right into America's hands are probably right. Who else are they going to turn to? Russia?

What's interesting I think is how exactly all of this is going to unfold, as China's power and influence grows. There are a couple potential unresolved border issues that could at some point in the future turn into hotspots too.
China has border issues with virtually every one of its neighbours, even North Korea. So yeah, there's a huge potential risk of escalation there. India and Taiwan are the issues that could most seriously threaten the Chinese.
 
China has border issues with virtually every one of its neighbours, even North Korea. So yeah, there's a huge potential risk of escalation there. India and Taiwan are the issues that could most seriously threaten the Chinese.
Are you referring to the border dispute with North Korea back in the 60s which was abandoned by China in 1970 and completely resolved in 2000?

Didn't the Indian issue turn out to be much ado about nothing? That it was actually just partisan posturing by some Indian politicians against the current ruling party?

The only major border issue that I see is with Taiwan. And as long as the US doesn't completely turn it's back on them, that simply isn't going to go any further.

In short, China doesn't appear to have any interest in imperialism and hegemony. It is merely interested in securing its own borders, including the one with North Korea.
 
The big issue, of course, is Taiwan. China literally cannot afford to recognise Taiwanese independence; it would undermine the very foundation of the Chinese state. China is comprised of several different ethnic groups, many of whom have pro-independence movements, the obvious example being Tibet. The CCP fears that if they back down on Taiwan, they will be forced, either through political pressure or outright rebellion, to relinquish control of the several autonomous regions with pro-independence factions. As such, they feel the need to behave aggressively in the several island chains they claim, as even though they likely don't care about the islands themselves, backing down over even a single one of their claims could set a precedent for the independence of Taiwan. That is something the Chinese simply cannot allow.

I wouldn't bet on it, but I also wouldn't be shocked if this happens in the next hundred years or so. Some people in America like to overestimate China because they have a self-hating desire to see America cut down to size. It's the "black friend" that proves you aren't into American Exceptionalism. :p
 
It could all be simply rectified by recognizing Taiwan as a separate state and giving it a place in the UN. But even the US, Canada, the UK, India, Pakistan, and Japan continue to refuse to to this by insisting there can only be one China.

I think it will eventually be diplomatically resolved, either through joint reunification or by declaring them two separate countries.
 
I think it will eventually be diplomatically resolved, either through joint reunification or by declaring them two separate countries.

Most likely option: Both. If Taiwan is going to part of the PRC again - which is indeed likely - Taiwan is probably to become a Special Autonomous Region of the PRC, like Hong Kong and Macau. Like Hong Kong and Macau, a Taiwan SAR would be fully sovereign except on armed forces and foreign policy, which would have to be surrendered to the PRC. Considering that Taiwan is unable to wage an effective foreign policy anyway, it is a sensible solution.
 
The diplomatic option is really the only option. Beijing has made it pretty clear that it won't allow independence and has intimated that a unilateral declaration of independence would have consequences. I don't think war is the likely consequence, but it would certainly cool relations and undo a lot of the progress that's been made towards repairing relations.

Kaiserguard said:
If Taiwan is going to part of the PRC again - which is indeed likely - Taiwan is probably to become a Special Autonomous Region of the PRC, like Hong Kong and Macau.
Likely in what sense? So far as I can tell, neither side has do anything to seriously advance the idea. I could be wrong, but I don't believe so.
 
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