Invisible Hell Terrain

[Vehem]

Wouldn't that make Win7 analogous to Win2K? XP would be the next full generation, this is just a half generation, such as occurred between ME>2K.

As I remembered it ME came after 2K - though we don't talk about 2K. It was the NT tree. And we also don't mention that XP was NT tree too. It's prettier. Even if I have used the Windows Classic look on every XP machine I've used (silly big buttons).

I think I'm off topic...

 

[Iceciro]

There is no offtopic in the Fall Further forums. >_>

 

[JimMorrison]

As I remembered it ME came after 2K - though we don't talk about 2K. It was the NT tree. And we also don't mention that XP was NT tree too. It's prettier. Even if I have used the Windows Classic look on every XP machine I've used (silly big buttons).

I think I'm off topic...

Ahhh, you're correct, actually. Though I like to talk about 2K, I used it until last year when I got a hand-me-down copy of XP, which I also use in Classic view, as the XP view is what I refer to as "Fisher Price: My First Windows".


To drag this back on topic, I'm glad the No Hell Terrain option is getting upgraded. I think I know enough of the game to not need it now, but for brand new players, Hell starts propagating around the point that the full complexity of FF starts to kick into gear. If you're inexperienced, you may be struggling enough (I know I was when it first happened to me!) that the spread of Hell completely overwhelms you, depriving you of the full experience of learning from your failure (even if just because the failure is so much more sudden).

 

[Sarisin]

To drag this back on topic, I'm glad the No Hell Terrain option is getting upgraded. I think I know enough of the game to not need it now, but for brand new players, Hell starts propagating around the point that the full complexity of FF starts to kick into gear. If you're inexperienced, you may be struggling enough (I know I was when it first happened to me!) that the spread of Hell completely overwhelms you, depriving you of the full experience of learning from your failure (even if just because the failure is so much more sudden).

I've been playing FFH/FF for a long time Jim, and the reason I shut it off is the drag it creates in gameplay for me. There is a longer period between turns and more CTDs, I think.

Also, I don't care for the micromanagement exercise of dealing with the spread via Adepts, etc. This is mainly when I am playing Neutral civs of course.

In my third game, I am Neutral/Hippus, the game is at Turn 635 and the AC is at 70 so I have a feeling I will be having the same problem that started this thread - invisible hell terrain.

 

[JimMorrison]

I've been playing FFH/FF for a long time Jim, and the reason I shut it off is the drag it creates in gameplay for me. There is a longer period between turns and more CTDs, I think.

Also, I don't care for the micromanagement exercise of dealing with the spread via Adepts, etc. This is mainly when I am playing Neutral civs of course.

Well sure, I didn't mean to imply that with your 2170 posts, that you were a neophyte FF player. I was just commenting from my own perspective, one reason that I see it as a good thing.

As far as I know, most of the dodgy behavior regarding "freespawns" has been fixed, but on the largest maps, I can imagine that the mechanic may end up imbalanced, or even broken - I've seen similar situations in other games.

 

[Deon]

I haven't tried No Hell Terrain, but I wanted to do it a few times. I hope you'll introduce "no hell counter" someday, it would give me ability to play on bigger maps of my laptop .

 

[Valkrionn]

This has actually been the topic of some debate in the team forum this morning - we've actually gone with HellTerrain/PlotCounterSpread both being disabled by that option. Any Hell Terrain that is added through WorldBuilder or a Scenario will still exist and is able to spawn demons as it would normally - but it won't spread at all.

I haven't tried No Hell Terrain, but I wanted to do it a few times. I hope you'll introduce "no hell counter" someday, it would give me ability to play on bigger maps of my laptop .

Looks like your wish will be granted.

 

[Sarisin]

Man, 3 out of 4 of my games get this invisible hell terrain problem. I realize the AC is high, but it is just a bit much. Improvements vanishing and resources getting changed. No indication what is a hell terrain tile and what is not.

Add to this Drowns or Stygian Guards with SIX promotions spawning on water tiles 3-4 a turn and those pesky Manticores (still don't have a counter for them as they come EVERY turn!) and it is just a little overwhelming - and, this is just Prince difficulty folks.

How are you guys dealing with these demons when the AC is high? Do you have to go with AV to get peace with them or die?

Well, time for me to punt until this invisible hell terrain feature gets fixed.

 

[WarKirby]

Have you tried disabling the AC, disabling demonic hordes, and disabling the infernals? There are options for all three.

I do agree that the demon spawning is a bit much though. Mainly the free promotions. I could deal with hordes of regular demons, but hordes of elite trained demons are just too much.

 

[xienwolf]

Thought someone had mentioned already in this post that No Hell Terrain will also disable the Plot Counter, AND that tiles which are considered Hell will all be labeled (even if they didn't actually change, like Tundra) in the next patch. Playing with No Hell Terrain until then is just asking for invisible Hell.

And AC is meant to force you to choose sides. Fall Further doesn't let you just ignore it anymore, either you go good and fight to lower the AC, or you go bad and fight to make peace with the demons.

 

[WarKirby]

I've never tried to go good and fight the demons before, but seeing it from the perspective of evil, I don't see how it's possible.

I can understand it forcing you to take sides, but it seems like, as implemented, it forces you to take ONE side. Evil. Good doesn't have much chance.

I think the demons need to get less free promotions.

 

[xienwolf]

If you have already let the AC get up above 30, then yes... Good is on the losing side of an uphill climb. Good STARTS OUT winning the battle, but if you come to the party too late...

Free XP for demons is based on difficulty and current AC. Why would Hell send only their weakest? Hell is organized, brutal, and experienced. They rely on the world being merged strongly enough to bring their best fighters through, but once the best CAN get through, they won't stand aside to help little old granny demons across the dimensional rift...

 

[Valkrionn]

Well, Good civs won't have any demons spawning in their borders so I think it's a valid choice.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Sarisin, you should try playing a game with hell terrain enabled once more. Jean Elcard greatly improved the cost it has on the cpu, so it might be a nice surprise for you. couple it with the "auto-sanctify" feature that's gonna be in patch K, and it gets pretty nice

 

[Sarisin]

Thanks, Gekko. I think I will wait until the next patch to start my next game.

I was going to start another thread on dealing with the demons, especially those pesky Manticores and the ones that spawn on water tiles inside your borders, but I think I will just hold off until the new patch is up.

In the meantime, it will give me a chance to try out the new Orbis modmodmod.