IOT Developmental Thread

1. A Field Army is about four or five corps which is approaching 800,000.
2. Likewise, an uneven distribution of provinces is better than no provinces.
3. English.
4. My point exactly. :lol:
1. No modern field army is even half of 800,000...
2. but there are better maps out there...
3. Currency's today can be related to the gold standard, who said that is not what happens in game?
4. roleplaying as a country=/=Roleplaying as the government. That is what is happening in IOT...
 
1. No modern field army is even half of 800,000...
2. but there are better maps out there...
3. Currency's today can be related to the gold standard, who said that is not what happens in game?
4. roleplaying as a country=/=Roleplaying as the government. That is what is happening in IOT...

10 ARMIES IS 800,000 MEN. THAT IS THE POINT.

2. *sigh*
3. *siiigggghhh*
4. Does not compute.
 
4 is actually a good point if you understand Derpese. He's saying that in IoT games we RP as the entire country, not just the leadership.
 
I think it's ridiculous that everyone assumes that 1 army is x amount of troops and 1 navy is x amount of ships when 1) they're representations of equal strength and 2) it doesn't matter.
 
4 is actually a good point if you understand Derpese. He's saying that in IoT games we RP as the entire country, not just the leadership.

When you say it like that, I understand.

Since when is 1 army 80,000 soldiers in the rules? Show me EXACTLY where it says that...

Divisions are usually around 10,000 troops give or take a thousand. Corps are usually 20,000-40,000. Armies are usually 80,000+. It doesn't have to be in the rules because it's common sense. That wasn't even the point. The point is was that I was calling you out for making a big deal about the map when there is a LOT of other things not realistic either.

See that thing over your head? That's my point.
 
I think it's ridiculous that everyone assumes that 1 army is x amount of troops and 1 navy is x amount of ships when 1) they're representations of equal strength and 2) it doesn't matter.
:agree:
When you say it like that, I understand.
Thats almost exactly what I said...

Divisions are usually around 10,000 troops give or take a thousand. Corps are usually 20,000-40,000. Armies are usually 80,000+. It doesn't have to be in the rules because it's common sense. That wasn't even the point. The point is was that I was calling you out for making a big deal about the map when there is a LOT of other things not realistic either.

See that thing over your head? That's my point.
However when we mean an army unit, we don't mean the entire army for the country, we mean a certain number of soldiers represented by one unit on the map we play, that number can be any number we want, like for example, in HOI 2 each army represents 10,000 soldiers, not 800,000.

So in the cases of 10 free armies, have you ever considered that each army maybe represents 10,000 or less soldiers, rather then just googling the modern US standard (not the global standard that is significantly lower)

I know the map isn't the only unrealistic component, but every other unrealistic component can be:
1) adjusted through roleplaying to make it realistic
2) makes the game less complicated, which in some circumstances is more important then realism.

However in no way can a map be justified when:
1) In game all territories are valued equally
2) There are better maps that we have available right now, forgetting how we could potentially make some in a few hours...

The reason for me attacking the map is not because its the most unrealistic component of the game, but because its a component of the game that can easily be changed without taking anything away from the simplicity, ability to roleplay or change any other factor of the game other then increasing realism.

Therefore there is no reason why it shouldn't be done...
 
Just my $0.02, whenever I use "armies" in past IOTs I mean a theoretical force representing a nation's military strength. It's not tied to any specific number of soldiers. This IMHO means less restrictive rules and roleplaying, and less work for me as GM as it's one less thing for me to worry about (in the same vein, "cities" in Iron and Blood represent a nation's exploitable manpower and not necessarily tied to any specific number either).
 
I just assume more advanced countries field smaller, better trained armies (Europe and America) while less advanced countries train larger, less well trained armies(Russia, China, Third World).
 
I just assume more advanced countries field smaller, better trained armies (Europe and America) while less advanced countries train larger, less well trained armies(Russia, China, Third World).

But the US has the second largest standing army in the world. Technology doesn't factor nearly as much as manpower possibility does which is why the Republic of Korea is just two notches away from being tied with the DPRK in active military.
 
Shhhhh, don't ruin my theories. ;)

To be honest, I've put more thought into how long it will take my actions in Imperia Mobiana to make their way into DYOS; one DYOSer (Tailless) had no comment while Omega and CivG did not seem the least bit happy. Have I finally one-upped Mathalamus and Domination as the most infamous forum gamer? ;)

But ahem, does the ruleset sound good? I'm missing one or two things besides NPC behavior, but can't remember what they are since I just woke up.
 
Shhhhh, don't ruin my theories. ;)

To be honest, I've put more thought into how long it will take my actions in Imperia Mobiana to make their way into DYOS; one DYOSer (Tailless) had no comment while Omega and CivG did not seem the least bit happy. Have I finally one-upped Mathalamus and Domination as the most infamous forum gamer? ;)

But ahem, does the ruleset sound good? I'm missing one or two things besides NPC behavior, but can't remember what they are since I just woke up.

*cough*
 
He got tired of running the game, and used an exploit, one that I pointed out to him in orders I might add :mischief:, to win the game in 1 turn. It was actually kinda cool, after you get past the "nooooo!!"
 
It's a bit akin to "This house will explode in 50 seconds... 1, 2, skip a few, 50. *BOOM*"

It works, darnit. :p

As for territories, there will be large amounts in Russia and China; I'm gonna chop up the larger provinces.

Now let us see here...

I primarily need to finetune how NPCs behave. I intend for, in the later game, when everyone's in contact with eachother, to maybe divide the world into ideological camps for each of the superpowers, of which there'll be 3-5. This will encourage my original intent with Sons of Mars 1 - influencing the smaller countries.

I also need to influence how they'll intervene against a war of aggression.

I have wondered if I should reduce Civics' benefits... after all, you can support 125 provinces by the end of the game, a huge amount, allowing easy steamrolling. Thoughts?
 
Reduce it to a max of 100. I liked how in the previous Sons of Mars you had to balance expansion.. Are you going to nerf Trade? +750 a turn was crazy.

Concerning NPC's... Get one person to play as all of them. That will keep them alive longer, and up to date.
 
Well, it will be very easy to trade, and I'll try to be more on top of it this time around. To get the most out of trade, you need to be Diplomatic... but that has a drawback of making war much more difficult - 10% for any offensive war, no matter how you sell it to the people. A war of aggression would be suicide for the Diplomatic nations - +30% RR!

That is an interesting concept; I do want each NPC to have its own character, however.
 
Sons of Mars II

---

You know the general etiquette rules. Be polite, even if you're simulating Cold War-like tensions. That is all.

Starting Out:

Choose 10 territories.

Choose 2 National Strengths. Gone are Civics, Governments, and Sliders, and something a Civ forum should have. The Strengths:

1. Militaristic - You get 20% added to all combat rolls(or 1,2,3,4,5 depending on tech level whichever is more.) You do not incur revolt risk for a war of aggression but other states still get a CB on you.

2. Expanionist - You get one extra claim per turn, so your expansion is sped up 20%.

3. Commercial - You get +20% income per turn.

4. Religious - Enables the Religious Casus Belli, Immune to Propaganda and Desertion

5. Diplomatic - You get double as much income from trade as you otherwise would(so if you're in Era 5, 100% of the partner's income). However, offensive wars incur +10% RR since your people expect you to use words, not war, to achieve your goals.

6. Agricultural - Armies and navies are 20% cheaper due to your enlarged manpower.

7. Centralised - Civics gives 5, rather than 4, provinces to your support.

8. Scientific - Each tech's cost is reduced by 20%; this is cumulative with your focus(so 30% off your focus tech). Rounded up.

Choose your national focus, which gives you 10% off that field of tech. There are three fields - Civics(which increases province support and how many diplomatic deals you can have), Army(which makes you do better in combat, increases troop support and unlocks more advanced units), and Economy(which adds to your income). You will receive Tech 1 of your Focus for free, so choose wisely.

You start with 10 free units. Decide how you want them divided between armies and navies.

After that, add some flavor. Detail your nation's history, currency, culture, politics, economy, etc. to your leisure.

Income

Income is the sum of your provinces( * 2) + your Infra tech number + your Infra bonuses + any bonuses from Strengths + Trade Income. You spend it or bank it at your leisure.

Technology

Every technology costs 5 * its number. Army 5 costs 25, for example.

There are three kinds of tech - Infra, Army, and Civics.

Civics changes how many provinces you can support without incurring revolt risk; Army adds a number to your rolls, changes what you can build, and how many units you can support; Infrastructure improves your economy.

There are 25 levels in each tree.

The number of techs you have is your tech level, which primarily determines your trade income: Army 3, Infra 2, Civics 5, for instance, gives you Tech Level 10.

It will cost 75 to get to tech 5 of each category, 275 to Tech 10, 600 to Tech 15, 1050 to Tech 20, and 1625 to Tech 25. Now, it may sound daunting, but going by Imperia Mobiana, it is possible to max out in tech in 20 turns. Especially if you value trade.

Technology Breakdown

Army adds +1 to your troop support(which is by default your number of provinces), and influences comba per level. Army 15 enables airforces.

Civics merely adds +4 (or 5 if you're Centralised) to your support per level.

Infra tech adds +1 to your income per level, with every 5 levels adding +10% on top of it. So, an Infra 25 state gets +25 income, but then +50% income on top of that.

Expansion:

By default, you expand to 5 provinces per turn, or 6 if you're Expansionist. Overlapping claims can be resolved through talks or war. Failing either of those, it goes to the first to claim it.

You cannot claim and launch a war at the same turn. You are free to claim and be attacked on the same turn, however; it's part of the "Defender's Advantage."

Every province you claim gets a free army in it.

Military:

While you get a free army for every province you occupy, you can recruit them manually. Ships, troops, and airforces all cost 5 gold per unit.

Movement is simple. By default, every land and sea unit moves one province per turn. Every 5 army techs adds one to this - with Army 25, your armies can move 6 provinces, and your navies 6 sea provinces. Air forces always move double what your armies/navies could go. Therefore, an effective strategy is putting planes on your fleets and launching them that way, as the navy can move and the planes can move separately.

Small bodies of water are counted as ordinary provinces for air forces; large bodies such as oceans require transportation by a fleet.

Fleets can load any number of troops/airplanes on them; these are seen as numbers to the right of the fleet. The drawback is if the entire fleet is destroyed, everything on them is destroyed as well.

Armies are standard units; they just sit wherever you tell them too, and can attack one province per turn. They automatically overrun any province without units in it, but it still costs one army its move. Armies can be paradropped or deployed into an enemy country via air and sea, respectively, the latter incurring a 20% penalty and the former a 30% penalty.

Navies exist to project power and harass foes. They also exist to prevent the same from being done to you. Navies set up in a port of your choice, and can move wherever you desire. If a navy is on your coastline, it will do its best to intercept invading navies; success means no army can land, defeat means an amphibious assault.

Air forces guard the skies, and can bomb enemy provinces or keep them from doing the same.

Combat

Naturally, states go to war, and naturally, their brave men and women will kill eachother as a result. Here is how combat works:

-Armies engage eachother in a battle of RNG, with each side rolling from 1-25. Winning army destroys the loser. If a tie, the attacker loses his army. Armies cannot move anymore if they use up their attack, but they can still defend themselves.

-Navies are the same way. They attack if they have conflicting objectives... primarily, this takes place in the form of one fleet invading and the other being present to fend off invasions. If a defending navy is completely destroyed, units will deploy onto the shores.

-Airforces engage eachother one on one in the same fashion. However, all air units are assumed to be in the air at the same time... translation? If you send 3 planes against 10, there's a high likelihood all your planes will be shot down - they must defeat ALL of the opposing fighters to land.

Now, some of these can interact with eachother. Armies capture any planes on the ground in provinces they capture. However, navies and planes are different:

-Navies can bombard the shoreline, with a 10% chance of destroying an enemy army stationed there.

-Navies can attack air forces that fly overhead, with a 20% chance of downing each one.

-Air forces can screen ground troops assuming no defenses, with a 20% chance of destroying an army.

-Air forces can attack naval vessels, with a 20% chance of destroying a ship. However, the ship likewise has a chance of shooting down the plane. If you try to pass a ship entirely, it will still shoot at you. Destroy naval vessels first!

In any ordinary combat situation, whichever side has a higher army rating gets a bonus equal to the difference. Army 10 state attacks Army 12 state; the latter gets a +2 to every roll.

If the last province of a country falls, that country is annexed. If it was one vs. one, the annexing state gets half of the victim's tech value added to theirs. If it was multiple states vs. one, tech is split proportional to how much was controlled by each person. The treasury goes to whoever has the capital at the time of annexation.

Diplomacy

You can negotiate with any state your navies/armies/air forces can reach in two turns. So for the early going, no Diplomacy, but within a few turns, it becomes possible.

-Trade is the simplest diplomatic option. Just sign it and you're a go. You can have one agreement by default, with 1 more for every Econ tech you have. So, at the end of the game, you can have 26 agreements. They are a means of influence, allowing you to build up weaker states, as much as a means of increasing income. Your tech level determines how much you get of eachother's income - 10% for Tech lv. 1-15, 20% for 16-30, etc. This doubles if you are a Diplomatic power.

-Foreign aid can be given away at any time.

-Guarantees are given to small states generally, and you can have an unlimited number. If someone attacks that state, you have the right to intervene.

-Defensive Pacts are exclusively defensive deterrents, you can have up to 2 with whomever you please. If someone attacks your partner, you have the right to intervene on their behalf.

-Alliances are offensive and defensive, and a huge commitment in diplomacy. You can only have 2.

-You cannot sign alliances, guarantees, or pacts with any of the superpowers if you are one. The superpowers are the top 5 states, and are primarily measured by net income, with some bias towards those with larger armies or tech investments. Should there be any changes in superpower status, you will be informed, and any alliances dissolved.

-Royal Marriage. Exclusive to monarchist states, it improves relations. If two states have a royal marriage with a third party and the third party's ruler dies, there will be a succession war. If one or more than two states have a RM with a third party and that latter state's ruler dies, there's a 10% chance of there being a personal union forming.

-Personal Union. A wonderful diplomatic condition, as it counts as an automatic alliance and lets you decide what that nation will do with its money... sans giving it to you, anyway! A personal union has a 20% chance of dissolving upon the death of a shared monarch. As each state's monarch death is counted separately, the more PUs you have, the higher a chance of your monarch dying is. Your state can become a junior partner in a PU as well; you can break the PU but no one will want to sign a royal marriage with you anymore. You have been warned.

-Inheritance. If a PU lasts, there's a 10% chance of inheritance. If inheritance occurs, the senior state in a PU inherits all the junior state's assets(half its technology in each category + vault + military + provinces) and becomes much stronger as a result.

-Vassalage. Vassalage is an agreement where a state pays half its income to you, and in turn you are expected to protect them. Vassals can be absorbed as needed. To turn a state into a vassal, you must defeat it in a war. States you have been really friendly towards and are very weak have a 10% chance of agreeing to be your vassal.

-Annexation. Your vassal has a 10% chance of agreeing to this. A vassal will basically be inherited and all its assets become yours.

-Military Access. A useful treaty, it lets you pass through another state's territory without precipitating war.

-Non-Aggression Pact. Signing one of these will last 5 turns. A peace treaty counts as one! Violating it during the timeframe gives you +10% RR.

-Embargo. Your enemy cannot trade with you, nor can he use your land to reach someone else to trade. Gives them a CB on you.

-Blockade. Navies can blockade ports. Up to 50% of an opponent's income can be cut this way. Any trade routes cut off by this cease to function. You need one fleet for every coastal province. The exact amount cut depends on how many ports are blocked. If they have 10 ports, and you've blocked 2, you take away 10% of their income, since that's 2/10 of 50%.

Note: Later in the game the more prominent powers will start dividing the world up, intentionally or non. States will begin to divide into spheres, and will refuse agreements with those in other spheres. For example, there can be a Left-Libertarian, a Communist, and a Capitalist superpower, each with its own SoI.

Casus Belli

You can't declare war just because, or your RR will spike 10%! You have multiple causes:

-Religion. Only religious states have this. You lose it once you reach Tech level 40. Any state with Tech Level 40 gets a casus belli on you if you use this; to an enlightened state, it is not a valid CB!

-Belligerence. If a state attacks with no casus belli, you get a CB on them.

-Border Dispute. This sometimes pops up as an event, but can be triggered by overlapping claims or espionage. The victim of a border dispute gets a casus belli. If you both claim the same province, the one who claimed it first gets a casus belli on the second.

-Treaty Commitments. You are expected to protect your defensive pact or guarantee partners. Failure to do so will cause people to seriously distrust you.

-Alliance. You can join an offensive war your alliance partner started. If it was a war of aggression for them, however, you get the same penalties.

-Blockade/Embargo. Anybody blockading you or embargoing you gives you a CB on them.

-Failed spy action. You get a CB on anyone who is discovered on your territory doing black ops. Keep a good deterrent!

Governments

This isn't complex. You choose to be either a monarchy or republic. Monarchies can sign royal marriages and thus gain a shot at inheritance(or being inherited) while Republics can range from democracies to dictatorships, but the fact the leader's chosen by something other than pure luck makes your revolt risk drop 5%. Naturally, states in your group have a slightly better opinion of you.

Espionage

All missions have a 25% chance of success with a 10% chance of discovery.

-Steal Money. 20% of the enemy's net income will be stolen. It will be deposited directly into the treasuries of 3 states, making it hard to tell who stole it!

-Incite revolt. Triggers a rebellion in an enemy province. Can only be done once to each enemy.

-Sponsor revolt. You could also call this "Stage coup!" This funds armies, and once it succeeds, you can give any amount of gold to them, in installations of 5. The armies will fight with your tech level, and thus can steamroll the natives. If they win the civil war, they will become close friends of yours.

-Destabilise. Spikes revolt risk by 10% for the next turn.

-Fabricate claims. Gives you a border dispute with the state.

Revolt Risk

Your revolt risk is the percent chance your citizens will rebel. If it triggers, that percent of your provinces will break away.

What makes it go down?

-Being a Republic. That is all. That or raising Civics, since that lets you support more provinces.

What makes it go up?

-Wars of aggression raise it by 20%, but with international coalitions a reality, it's the least of your worries.

-Destabilise, if it succeeds on you, raises RR by 10% for one turn.

-A war that violates a NAP or ceasefire spikes RR by 10% until the war is over.

-Every province you're over your province support limit adds +1% to your RR. If you're at Civ 10, you can support 40 provinces. If you have 45 provinces, that means +5% is your RR, just from provinces.

-If at war, your capital being in enemy hands raises RR by 10. Don't lose your capital.

NPCs

NPCs are small states that primarily serve to take up land and facilitate players doing something besides mindless landgrabbing. NPCs have their own character(determined by RNG) to influence their actions, and start with 10 territories by default. However, they cannot expand except by war. With time, an NPC can become a major power... but until then, it's just a tiny pie for the major powers to fight over for influence and strength.

NPCs can go to war with eachother and you can sponsor either side, and earn their gratitude. You can also stage coups in NPCs with sufficient rebel funding, flipping the country to your side.

On top of that, NPCs also can discipline you. If you launch wars of aggression, other NPCs will debate declaring war. Each NPC bordering an aggressor has a 50% chance of declaring war. If enough NPCs are in favor of war, the war will be declared. Otherwise, they will back out of it. "Enough" counts as enough they have a shot at winning, such as matching you in provinces or combat training.

Besides the little guys, you have the major NPCs, the exact number will be determined after signups. Major NPCs exist as moderating influences on human players, something I can use to to keep the game from getting broken without resorting to huge rewrites. They will each have their own character and be more thought out that their bite-sized brethren.

Misc.

You are to post orders every turn if you want your nation to be run 100% like you want. I must, in turn, post a world map and spreadsheet image each update so you know what the heck is going on!

I do not look over posts a second time. Post your orders all in one post or in separate posts; do not expect me to see "Edit: do x" and count it. Post that at the same time as the rest or in a new post. I do have time of my own, oddly enough.

Failure to post orders will result in me automating your nation with what I believe is best for it.

---

I believe that's it!

Anybody who'd be interested, please let me know.
 
Just my $0.02, whenever I use "armies" in past IOTs I mean a theoretical force representing a nation's military strength. It's not tied to any specific number of soldiers. This IMHO means less restrictive rules and roleplaying, and less work for me as GM as it's one less thing for me to worry about (in the same vein, "cities" in Iron and Blood represent a nation's exploitable manpower and not necessarily tied to any specific number either).
:agree: (in your face sonereal)

I just assume more advanced countries field smaller, better trained armies (Europe and America) while less advanced countries train larger, less well trained armies(Russia, China, Third World).
Russia has one of the best trained armies in the world, and a population half of that of Americas but still considered a world power. Russia should be on the advanced list, if anything.
But the US has the second largest standing army in the world. Technology doesn't factor nearly as much as manpower possibility does which is why the Republic of Korea is just two notches away from being tied with the DPRK in active military.
:agree:
But ahem, does the ruleset sound good? I'm missing one or two things besides NPC behavior, but can't remember what they are since I just woke up.
Did you change the map yet?
 
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