IOT Developmental Thread

I'm still inclined to just get rid of war entirely to force people to be more inventive about how they handle disputes. Rock throwing is straight forward but it's so crude. :(

you should watch me and Alied in IOT XIV. we always bicker with eachother.

thing is, im sure he is playing as a nation badly on purpose.
 
I still promote the use of strict you're-not-allowed-to-immediately-join-again-after-you-lose policy. That way even if a player is very inclined to war, they won't be allowed to constantly enforce their policy of always war.

There are also a plethora of things you can logically do to make war unfavorable if done rampantly and unresponsibly. I think a mix of the popular opinion of the war and an infamy system could go a way in solving this dilemma, and perhaps an apt supply system when GMs are well-versed enough in their preferred updating media to make a feasible and relatively simple one. I think the former is the easiest and most-overlooked one.
 
you should watch me and Alied in IOT XIV. we always bicker with eachother.

thing is, im sure he is playing as a nation badly on purpose.

1) the bickering are not that interesting and basically boil down to two nations filled with rhetoric arguing.

2) please define badly Mr (at the first turn of bickering) "I HAVE MORE TROOPS THAN YOU! /ignoring stats painting us the same back then"

I am playing a Platonic inspired oligarchy which fanatically took the Republic to the joint of going most silly beyond (how needed is the colour coded dress code?) that is filled in arrogance while enforcing its own twisted version of JUSTICE in a show of insanity. They do not want their vision questioned for they believe that their path is the only path and all other paths are UNJUST!

Please compare to the same old "Emperor of Byzantine Eastern Rome" that appears to need to learn some lessons in consistency, as well as trying to avoid accidental conditions.

Still: you have improved from the figure I heard of...
 
This conversation has no place in the dev thread. Take to Argentina if you really must.
 
I think the former is the easiest and most-overlooked one.

As somebody who has tried several times to get a working supply route system that is actually acceptable, no not really. You can make a supply system pretty easily though and just throw modifiers at it.

The reason why wars happen and will always happen is simply because the amount of territory you hold is the most visible demonstration of success. Even in games like RIOT, Fiat Lux, Multipolarity, and the recent crop of post-province economic mechanics, you still have players going to war despite there being no shortage of resources.

Think about that. In RIOT, you can build factories. Forever. Your EP could go up forever with no problems. Why did players go to war still? Simply because without designing interesting, non-military mechanics, everybody ends up going to war. While RIOT did have events (for a while at least), the fact that wars would happen wasn't out of the question.

Even in the Multipolarity line of games, wars still occur despite the mechanics clearly penalizing players who do so because there usually isn't else much to do. There are no internal politics, only politics with your neighbors, and in the end, the most important thing in most games is getting one up over your opponents. The drive to have the best military, most expansion empire, strongest economy, highest tech, and the most prestige will always drive conflict, and war is the easiest outlet for that conflict because the effects are easier to see.

Surprisingly, a decent system that does a better job of forcing players to deal with internal issues is a system that isn't used often except in Valkyrie, Iron and Blood, and These Divided States. Factions, tailored-made and unique to each country, but with some overarching elements that can lead to factions in other countries getting along more often than not, can make internal politics interesting and provide a far better internal dynamic than the current Revolt Risk system.



Didn't guard the docks? Supply shortage. Blew up the airport? No reinforcements. Raped and pillaged everything in my path? Can't cry when the local warlords side with my mortal foe.

In a game with supply costs for units where supply can be underpaid at the cost of combat efficiency, I believe it is very much possible to model attacks on airports and docks simply by adjusting supply costs. It isn't like modifiers to supply costs in previous IOTs don't exist, given MPR had a modifier to supply cost based on tech, and other games had it based on mobilization levels.

Throwing in extra modifiers such as actual strategic bombings should be possible.


Because in real life, combat is not linear, and field tactics do matter. I won't get into pedantic examples, but suffice to say that a purely numbers game leads to gross obfuscation, indeed trivialization of scale. I'm not saying stats-war is bad and must be replaced as a matter of course; a lot of players want a system that at least looks empirically predictable. But to write off roleplay war completely is a mistake, and I'm immensely frustrated by people who present it as an either-or dichotomy.


I find the problem of players trying to be field officers of their own armies to be just that, a problem. In a game where war orders do matter, the people hurt are not only the people who would perform well in a game like SonRisk by providing concrete orders, but also people who don't know the in's and out's of military strategy. At the heart of most of these games, players are leading a country. The Emperor of Rome doesn't command troops fighting against Federal forces in India himself. He delegates.

The focus should be on grand strategy, not on field tactics, because field tactics can easily be represented with a the RIOT-styled Leadership and Front system which served the game well for a good six turns before I made the mistake of switching to a tech-focused system. The Leadership System had the advantage of representing the command limitations of trying to fight a two-front war far better than any previous combat system I have ever worked with and had the implied advantage of removing the player from the role of a general of an army to the commander of an entire armed forces.

The commander sets goals, guidelines, and targets. The commander isn't usually commanding brigades in Central Asia.

Right now, a RP-focused system often forces the player into the role of Warrior Administrating Poet where he has to not only do something you would expect your staff officers to do, but set policies that should really have been left to the administrative officials in a bureaucracy, and pretty much control all aspects of governance.

It just doesn't work that way. Why should the President of the Federal Republic of Coastal Nations concern himself with the details of the bombing of a Roman port in Persia? Isn't that what his generals are for? Sure, the President could take a hands on approach and plan the bombing of a Roman port in Persia, but the idea that the port won't be bombed, airstrip destroyed, or highways attacked without implicit instructions from the leader of the country just seems wrong.

Remember that it is about tactics. Do we organise a trap? Target specific areas? Hold the line or retreat till the enemy warns out? Basic things that I am sure the stats have to consider in how the play is conducted.

No, no, and no. IOT is not about tactics unless I'm logged into a site other than CFC right now. IOT has been solidly about grand strategy for years. A leader a thousand miles away from a front should not be the person planning traps on a tactical level.

So no, the stats do not have to take these things into account most of the time because unlike the strategic bombing of strategic assets, which tree your hide a soldier behind is so irrelevant to the numbers, that it would take a lot of zeros after a decimal place for it to even be represented.

The basic size of a military unit in an IOT is brigade strength at 1000 to 3000 troops, division strength at 10,000 troops, or simply general "armies" which can imply anything from a company to hundreds of thousands of troops. The action of a single soldier when placed against the fact that most wars see tens of thousands of combatants on both sides doesn't matter in the same vein the actions of a single squad during the Battle of Verdun probably really didn't matter.

If players should concern themselves with anything about the war beyond where to commit scarce military assets, then it should be on strategic items, not "we are going to move this company up this street in this city to take that building".
 
No, no, and no. IOT is not about tactics unless I'm logged into a site other than CFC right now. IOT has been solidly about grand strategy for years. A leader a thousand miles away from a front should not be the person planning traps on a tactical level.

If CityIOT taught us anything small scale is possible and fun.

It would be interesting if a IOT did conduct its military mechanics around small scale warfare, be it squad based or a leverage. Its scale could be from a settlement to a region but in the end of day it will have to set for a rather interesting taking on the IOT war formula.

If I do a war game I might consider initial small scales.

IOT can be about tactics. Depends on the game whether it is about tactics or not.

IOTs are not about grand strategy; its about a play of power, be it in a 'orderly' city or a galactic empire. Our "nations" are but players, be the play bloody, peaceful or otherwise.
 
If CityIOT taught us anything small scale is possible and fun.

Yes, it taught us that things that make sense on a small scale on a small scale. Had the game been about the entirety of the Balkans, then all of a sudden the specific number of followers you have is meaningless.

These things do scale up. Mechanics that work on a small scale do not work when you ramp them up to a larger scale. That is why we don't have rulesets using the Victoria 2 map where you can build individual buildings like tenements in individual cities and individual provinces.

It would be interesting if a IOT did conduct its military mechanics around small scale warfare, be it squad based or a leverage. Its scale could be from a settlement to a region but in the end of day it will have to set for a rather interesting taking on the IOT war formula.

You can have that, it just won't be a game where you can use a world map, which is what 90%+ of IOTs use.


IOTs are not about grand strategy; its about a play of power, be it in a 'orderly' city or a galactic empire. Our "nations" are but players, be the play bloody, peaceful or otherwise.

grand strategy
Web definitions
Grand strategy, also called high strategy, comprises the "purposeful employment of all instruments of power available to a security community". Military historian B. H. ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Strategy

An IOT where you play a galactic empire on a galactic map, but its very nature, would have to be a grand strategy game. The differences in scale do matter because you're not going to send in orders for squads when you're the leader of a country that can throw hundreds of divisions at a fire.

Not only would that be far more work than needed, but it wouldn't even make sense.

Name an IOT that didn't have a grand strategy focus that uses a world map and involves armies.
 
I was implying internal politics when I said popular opinion. Things such as war justification, war wariness, and full on pacifist movements can all take hold, creating an internal problem for the player that can severely affect how they interact with other players externally.

This doesn't just include war. Having events, such as conservatives getting mad about the new government-owned industry suddenly piling up, can be a solution to the problem of just what can people do besides kill each other in these games. In a staunch conservative democratic nation, I can see something like this being really hard to pass through. And if it does, we can probably expect some kind of action from the conservatives that makes it really hard to think that building the new public sector industry was worth it.

It's a problem created by the player that now has to be solved by the player. Should the factories be shut down, making it a waste of resources in order to convince conservatives to gain some lost confidence in the government, also upsetting state planners at the same time? Do they keep the factories running, causing internal instability and possible removal of the administration if things get heated enough? How will the player handle the resulting protests of the new factories?

Things can very well escalate to civil war if the player plays their cards really badly, all due to being irresponsible to their country.

This is what I wanted from Great Journeys, and what I want from TGA. Civilizations with malleable internal politics as people gain and lose confidence.

I don't believe however it should be entirely constrained by stats. It should be based on just how feasible their governance is according to the gm. Yes, that means GM bias. But that's what the players agree to when they join the game. I think it's a very apt way to go about distracting players from war.

If you want player conflict minus open warfare, the go-to in that regard is probably espionage. The problem with that appears to be no game has made it interesting enough for players to want to engage in it. Maybe it's not flashy enough and the scale to which things can happen aren't as easily represented in espionage as thy are in warfare. 100,000 men is a lot more concrete and comprehensible than 100 income invested in the network in India.
 
I feel this is a good time to post this hint for what I was actually working on for the last few weeks.

Spoiler :
Tropico-review-1.jpg
 
I feel this is a good time to post this hint for what I was actually working on for the last few weeks.

Spoiler :
Tropico-review-1.jpg

Fallout IOT: Tropico: Crossover colons: the sequel: the game: the movie: the play: the audiobook: the game?
 
Yes, it taught us that things that make sense on a small scale on a small scale. Had the game been about the entirety of the Balkans, then all of a sudden the specific number of followers you have is meaningless.

These things do scale up. Mechanics that work on a small scale do not work when you ramp them up to a larger scale. That is why we don't have rulesets using the Victoria 2 map where you can build individual buildings like tenements in individual cities and individual provinces.

Of course. Did I say something different to you with the CityIOT line about small scale games?


You can have that, it just won't be a game where you can use a world map, which is what 90%+ of IOTs use.

...and having a small map is going to matter overall because? Maps can be made.

grand strategy
Web definitions
Grand strategy, also called high strategy, comprises the "purposeful employment of all instruments of power available to a security community". Military historian B. H. ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Strategy

An IOT where you play a galactic empire on a galactic map, but its very nature, would have to be a grand strategy game. The differences in scale do matter because you're not going to send in orders for squads when you're the leader of a country that can throw hundreds of divisions at a fire.

No Civilization IOTs will be taking place... :(

In seriousness; CityIOT, unless I underestimated the size, says hello. My argument was relating IOTs without a term that disclosed the more smaller in size. Granted you can have mini-strategy games from this...

As for squads; did I dictate that your grand strategy games should be forced to have small squads? I do not seem remember saying that...

Not only would that be far more work than needed, but it wouldn't even make sense.

Again: I am talking about small scale games. What is the point of your statement other than replying to your imaginary friend?

Name an IOT that didn't have a grand strategy focus that uses a world map and involves armies.

MP5. :mischief:

Baring that you have demonstrated that we have more areas to play with. I am surprised Tani did not do a game which you played as companies trying to win as much stock in countries as possible. It is just a idea (possibly silly if played by the wrong hands) but there are... possibilities.

Note: I am not attacking Grand Strategy Games (which you must presume judging your derailing) but saying we should look at all other areas to enhance IOT. Hence my definition of IOT as a play to fit both CityIOT and Tyo's space game. Heck I could now envision a tactics game set on a little isle, with few forces set against each other.

The stage and actors have to be considered but still; plays.
 
The discussion is how tactics fits into the average IOT, though. Which is son's point. It doesn't.
 
I guess then my talk is not the 'average.'

A proper tactical IOT would be intriguing to play as though. How it would be set will be a challenge in itself but is will be intriguing to see how it is attempted. In the end there are so much to experiment with...
 
Fallout IOT: Tropico: Crossover colons: the sequel: the game: the movie: the play: the audiobook: the game?

Fallout 4: Tropico: Caribbean Rim: The Prequel: Colon Chemotherapy: The Movie of the Game: Third Edition: Director's Cut.

...and having a small map is going to matter overall because? Maps can be made.

There are only a handful of people here who make maps, and the they're usually maps representing regions at a minimum. There is only one or two city maps. At best. And they need editing to do the job.


In seriousness; CityIOT, unless I underestimated the size, says hello. My argument was relating IOTs without a term that disclosed the more smaller in size. Granted you can have mini-strategy games from this...

Are you even paying attention to what the phrase "grand strategy" means? How many CityIOTs have there been over the last three years? Ran by who?

Exactly.

That'd be like me pointing to Sonspiracy II and trying to pretend that represents anything in a way of trends for IOT.


As for squads; did I dictate that your grand strategy games should be forced to have small squads? I do not seem remember saying that...

You seem dangerously confused as to what grand strategy is, first and foremost, since you don't think most IOTs aren't on a grand strategy level.

Most IOTs are, at a minimum, regional games that involve tens of thousands of troops. We can keep talking about hypothetical small-scale games, but there are none. There are no small-scale IOTs with an emphasis on squad tactics, so bringing up such a possibility doesn't really matter.


Again: I am talking about small scale games. What is the point of your statement other than replying to your imaginary friend?

I feel like you don't understand what goes into designing actual games and dealing with the wants of actual players in said games. You keep bringing up small scale games, which wasn't the point of this discussion in the first place. It was quite clear that the discussion was about, first and foremost, games on a world map, which is what most IOTs are.

You constantly bringing up a hypothetical genre of games that do not actually exist in IOT is dishonest at best.



Do you not know what the words "grand strategy" means? If so, that would explain a lot about this current conversation.


Note: I am not attacking Grand Strategy Games (which you must presume judging your derailing) but saying we should look at all other areas to enhance IOT. Hence my definition of IOT as a play to fit both CityIOT and Tyo's space game. Heck I could now envision a tactics game set on a little isle, with few forces set against each other.

First of all, Tyo's space game would be a grand strategy game. If you did not know that until now, you really need to consider playing the games most IOTs are based on for a change.

CityIOT, the series of games that consists of three games, have been ran by one player. The mechanics of the game do not work outside the context of the game, which is why they have never been picked up. They do not work within the context of the average IOT because they are completely divorced from the vast majority of IOTs.

You're the kind of person who would post in forum about Sims and complain that the series isn't taking more cues from Tropico by adding a political sphere of management and island building. The fact you listed MP5 as a game that shouldn't be considered a grand strategy game has led me to the ultimate conclusion that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Here is the list of the most viewed IOTs.

Iron and Blood: Focused on grand strategy.
IOT IV: Involved players leading countries, engaging and diplomacy, and being a *grand strategy* level of game.
IOT VII
The Multipolar World
IOT VI
Valkyrie
Multipolarity II
Revolution IOT (the original)
IOT IX
Multipolarity III
MPIV
Sons of Mars III
IOT: The Aftermath
Imperia Mobiania
IOT V
MPR
SoMII
Mobius: Total Chaos
ChristosIOT
Iron and Blood: Redux
Europe's Burning
Imperium Universalis
Imperial Offtopicum
IOT Cold War
Iron and Blood 2
Spirit of Man
Mini-IOT Eastern Asia
IOT Enlightenment II
SonIOT
New Revolution
IOT X: The Space Race
IOT: The Second American Revolution
IOT III
SonRisk
Iron and Blood IV
Ideology Wars
World of Trade
EpicIOT
Fiat Lux
SonRisk II


NONE of these games are talking about the scale of games you keep talking about, yet I'm the one derailing by talking within the confines of the scale of games that *every single game* listed here is usually on?


The discussion is how tactics fits into the average IOT, though. Which is son's point. It doesn't.

Bingo, though I feel like you're being generous by saying it doesn't belong in the "average" IOT. It doesn't belong in the vast majority of IOTs. None of the ones I've listed makes room for tactics, and really, the only game I can think of is CityIOT.
 
There are only a handful of people here who make maps, and the reason they're usually maps representing regions at a minimum.

Alas; still it would be fun to attempt to make a map of a small area.


Are you even paying attention to what the phrase "grand strategy" means?

I have.

How many CityIOTs have there been over the last three years? Ran by who?

Exactly.

Arrogant "how many" comments and presumptions seem to ignore the status of what I was on about.

That'd be like me pointing to Sonspiracy II and trying to pretend that represents anything in a way of trends for IOT.

I was talking about the cores of ALL IOTs. CityIOT to be dismissed in order to fit your definition is... notable at the least.

You seem dangerously confused as to what grand strategy is, first and foremost, since you don't think most IOTs aren't on a grand strategy level.

Again: your not talking to me but rather what you think I am saying. Are you even reading? I said that a squad based game would not be forced on your grand strategy games. The mini-strategy was a... fun playing of thoughts.

Most IOTs are, at a minimum, regional games that involve tens of thousands of troops. We can keep talking about hypothetical small-scale games, but there are none. There are no small-scale IOTs with an emphasis on squad tactics, so bringing up such a possibility doesn't really matter.

It does matter; this is the development thread right? Or should we stagnate and not talk about possibilities?

We can talk about hypoethical small-scale games because it allow us to think about how to play around with IOTs.

I feel like you don't understand what goes into designing actual games and dealing with the wants of actual players in said games. You keep bringing up small scale games, which wasn't the point of this discussion in the first place. It was quite clear that the discussion was about, first and foremost, games on a world map, which is what most IOTs are.

For starters; thanks for presuming me ignorant child.

Secondly; small numbers can play. Just because there are a lot of IOTs that focus on large numbers does not dismiss the small.

You constantly bringing up a hypothetical genre of games that do not actually exist in IOT is dishonest at best.

Again: CityI... O forget it.

Look: I was making a point that IOTs need not be big; I was talking about the possibilities of small games. Instead you gone out of your way to make a mountain of a mole hill and for what?

I thought the Development thread was for talking about IOT and ideas but I failed to realise "it has to be done before." Let us denounce people from doing anything not done before then;

I listed MP5 because with :mischief: You know; mischief. It was a response to your "name me a game which does not involve armies." I guessed I should placed "MP5 has no armies" or other things to hold your little hand explaining that Tani's (mad) vision of MP5 does not include warfare in one way or another... because you have not earned respect.

You complain about me debating about small scale, even I was giving ideas. I guess if I am to be misread as you have been doing...
 
Arrogant "how many" comments and presumptions seem to ignore the status of what I was on about.

Which is fitting, given you're ignoring the initial topic anyway.


I was talking about the cores of ALL IOTs. CityIOT to be dismissed in order to fit your definition is... notable at the least.

Notice how the VAST majority of the IOTs are not CityIOT. Name mechanics in CityIOT that have been used as core mechanics in any IOT since.


Again: your not talking to me but rather what you think I am saying. Are you even reading? I said that a squad based game would not be forced on your grand strategy games. The mini-strategy was a... fun playing of thoughts.

Also that nothing you're saying is remotely on topic, which is the place for tactics in actual IOTs involving scales that well over 90% of IOTs are on.


It does matter; this is the development thread right? Or should we stagnate and not talk about possibilities?


We can talk about hypoethical small-scale games because it allow us to think about how to play around with IOTs.

Except the vast majority of IOTs are not on a small scale for a reason. If there was such a high demand for CityIOT-styled games, you would expect more of those, now wouldn't you?


For starters; thanks for presuming me ignorant child.

Secondly; small numbers can play. Just because there are a lot of IOTs that focus on large numbers does not dismiss the small.

Not a lot, most. I would say that every single IOT outside of CityIOT actually involve numbers well into the thousands, tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands. The vast majority of IOTs do not operate on a scale smaller than regional.


Again: CityI... O forget it.

You keep bringing up an atypical IOT to try to justify changes in typical IOTs, which makes no sense at all. Again, if the mechanics for CityIOT were applicable anywhere outside of CityIOT, they would have already been stolen. Why? Because I (and maybe TF), regularly do go through old threads to steal mechanics.

Look: I was making a point that IOTs need not be big; I was talking about the possibilities of small games. Instead you gone out of your way to make a mountain of a mole hill and for what?

You brought up tactics while everybody else is talking about the relevance of tactics in a grand strategy game, pretended not to know what grand strategy games are, and wonder why people are annoyed that you're throwing out ideas in a dev thread that are one-liners.

I thought the Development thread was for talking about IOT and ideas but I failed to realise "it has to be done before." Let us denounce people from doing anything not done before then;

You weren't even developing a tactics IOT, so what are you even talking about? Post an actual ruleset so I can list all the reasons why nothing in that ruleset would be applicable to the vast majority of IOTs, never can be, and never will be.

There is nothing wrong with IOTs that aren't IOTs, but there is when you're trying to use mechanics from CityIOT in something like MP and expect the latter to function properly.

I listed MP5 because with :mischief: You know; mischief. It was a response to your "name me a game which does not involve armies." I guessed I should placed "MP5 has no armies" or other things to hold your little hand explaining that Tani's (mad) vision of MP5 does not include warfare in one way or another... because you have not earned respect.

Name an IOT that didn't have a grand strategy focus that uses a world map and involves armies.

Now you are being deliberately obtuse.

I would argue, very strongly, that my opinion on game development is probably a lot more respected than yours.

The fact that you brought up a game that A.) Doesn't exist and B.) Doesn't exist doesn't help your argument either.

Ailedhoo, I feel that you've been told this in several IOTs by several different people by now, but I guess it needs repeated. You can admit you're wrong. Perfectly okay to admit you're wrong actually. The first step to actually getting better is admitting, "I'm wrong. Maybe I should rethink my position."
 
i have to agree with Sonereal here. even i admit that i can be wrong. most of the time. i became (slightly) better because of that.
 
...I have admitted before when I made mistakes, yet you now look over that. For what exactly? Sure, sure I was not debating a game I was developing but where else to debate ideas? The organisation thread is about organising. There is Argentina but it is meant for many more things then that.

I guess it proves there needs to be a idea thread.

Still: continue Sone. You will only show your own arrogance. I admit my mistakes; I have still to see you do the same. If you were that perfect then you could clearly not be banned every hour and then.

O go ahead; make it out that I do not acknowledged my mistakes!
 
.
till: continue Sone. You will only show your own arrogance. I admit my mistakes; I have still to see you do the same. If you were that perfect then you could clearly not be banned every hour and then.

:aside:

You know when you are talking to somebody and they ignore what you just said? You will notice, but you can forgive that because it isn't like they have a written record of what you said, after all.

The focus should be on grand strategy, not on field tactics, because field tactics can easily be represented with a the RIOT-styled Leadership and Front system which served the game well for a good six turns before I made the mistake of switching to a tech-focused system. The Leadership System had the advantage of representing the command limitations of trying to fight a two-front war far better than any previous combat system I have ever worked with and had the implied advantage of removing the player from the role of a general of an army to the commander of an entire armed forces.

I'm sure the chat might be able to inform you better of my public acknowledgements of other mistakes, especially in regards to stat-management in Civilization Kings, unit-management in RAIOT (the game that ended with a several paragraph apology about my limitations in running the game), and a few times when I did have to kill games I apologized to people who had gotten deeply involved in the game (except These Divided States, which I haven't actually killed yet).

Luckily for us both, the recent example of you being wrong has provided you a chance to admit you're wrong.

But lets get back on topic and discuss why a tactics IOT shouldn't be treated as anything other than atypical, and how a theoretical tactics IOT would have mechanics that can be applied broadly across the vast majority of IOTs that operate on far greater scales.
 
Luckily for us both, the recent example of you being wrong has provided you a chance to admit you're wrong.

But lets get back on topic and discuss why a tactics IOT shouldn't be treated as anything other than atypical, and how a theoretical tactics IOT would have mechanics that can be applied broadly across the vast majority of IOTs that operate on far greater scales.

Again; how you derailed this to be about me than small scale talk really is getting a annoyance.

Go on about your narrow narrative of what a IOT is, because clearly I made a mistake; this is not the thread for IOT ideas (I guess it will have to be invented) nor should I expect a reactionary to heed the wisdom of possibility.
 
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