IOT Developmental Thread

[ZeletDude]

Same.

 

[Omega124]

While it's a good analogy, it's unfortunately inappropriate for the situation. Take that picture, and imagine the kid forces himself into the game, never passes the ball, never lets go of the ball, and when the teacher blows the whistle and tells him he's not following the rules, he throws the ball at the teacher's face.

A valid point, I'll give you that, but then I don't see you going after Math. He's an (and please, Math, don't take it personally, I bet you're a nice guy in RL) annoying powergamer whom always has to assert his country's dominance, defies the rules of physics and money to get what he wants, and when I invade to get him to stop doing it, everyone takes it personally (This was ESPECAILY true in IOT III, where half the world DoWed me because I tried to kill him off. I'll attribute my story (where my troops committed mass genocides) as part of the reason (and honestly, it was only to add flavor and vent my rage from Math's powergaming. I didn't expect everyone wanting to embargo me and other crap because of it), but dear god, he was only one freaking providence. What difference?). Domination is new (He joined IOT IV very late into the game, and this is his first true game of it) at the game, so you can say he's a new kid whom transferred and doesn't know the rules. Math's been there from the beginning! So I don't understand why Domination gets the hate, and the others don't.

That's the kind of people we are opting to ban from the game. While I admit that Dommy and ilduce do liven the game up a bit, they do so in the wrong way. Joecoolyo in IOT4 made it clear that his power politics were symptomatic of his roleplaying, and he played within the rules. Dommy did nothing but disrupt the process. Practically every second post was his, on some inane, typically off-topic subject. He didn't seem to grasp the "role-play" aspect, instead making and breaking alliances every turn, or within the same turn. He did nothing to advance the game save bring everyone to war.

Again, valid point. He indeed did that stuff. However, you could compare himself to that ruler in SA (I think it was Bolivia), whom randomly DoWed all of his neighbors because he thought he was the next Napoleon (That's what he actually said, I didn't choose a random great general). He was defeated, obviously, but it does prove the point we do have these sporadic leaders whom change on the whim and do stupid things.

Your analogy would be apt if Dommy was the guy who messed up once and never got a second chance. On the contrary, he's had plenty of opportunities to shape up, but he quite pointedly proves he has no interest in doing so. Why shouldn't we ban him?

Not valid point! Like earlier said, this is Domination's first true game. He didn't get a second chance at all, ESPECAILLY compared to Math, whom didn't change, was here since the first one, and gets away scot-free. I'd say IOT V is his second chance, where he gets to truly know how the game works, and if he doesn't change then, then this is valid. But not now.

I'm not saying we should hold regular lynch mobs, but there are a few people who only detract from the experience. Mathalamus was the original poster child. Domination was even worse. You say you're disliked, but you play by the rules of the game. This ties in with the subject of game etiquette. We can't ban someone just because we don't like their avatar, or their politics, or their grammar. We can ban them for cause.

Um, no, Math is much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, etc, etc, worse. Powerplaying is the tool of Satan himself, and Domination doesn't powerplay. Heck, Math even godmodes at points (Like in IOT III, where he stated Venetian troops aren't trained as good as Byzantine), and besides that, they're exactly the same, spamming. I have three charges against Math, and only one against Dommy. Now, tell me, which is more, three or one? Exactly.

 

[Mathalamus]

Um, no, Math is much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, etc, etc, worse. Powerplaying is the tool of Satan himself, and Domination doesn't powerplay. Heck, Math even godmodes at points (Like in IOT III, where he stated Venetian troops aren't trained as good as Byzantine), and besides that, they're exactly the same, spamming. I have three charges against Math, and only one against Dommy. Now, tell me, which is more, three or one? Exactly.

look ive learned my lesson alright? i dont powergame anymore. and venice havign poor quality solkdiers is true. Venice is navy based, not land based.

i dont power-game in IOTII, heck im even expecting to be defeated by Mexico.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

A valid point, I'll give you that, but then I don't see you going after Math.

One problem at a time.

As you may recall, as GM of IOT4 I was on the verge of banning both of them.

Not valid point! Like earlier said, this is Domination's first true game. ... I'd say IOT V is his second chance, where he gets to truly know how the game works, and if he doesn't change then, then this is valid. But not now.

To be fair, I may have been judging this on his attitude on the forum as a whole, not just the game.

Um, no, Math is much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, etc, etc, worse. ...

I find the chief difference is that Math will posture, but he will (grudgingly) concede to the GM. Domination, as proven in a few earlier examples and in this thread itself, demands his own way up to and including overriding the game rules.

Anyway, I think our positions are clear. I won't discuss this further here, but feel free to reach me through PM.

 

[Omega124]

look ive learned my lesson alright? i dont powergame anymore. and venice havign poor quality solkdiers is true. Venice is navy based, not land based.

i dont power-game in IOTII, heck im even expecting to be defeated by Mexico.

No, you haven't. Case of point, the Enterprise. It's from 1935, and yet you claim its just as good, if not even better, than modern carriers. That's freaking WWII-era! The modern Enterprise is from the 50s, and is rightfully outclassed by every single other aircraft carrier in the USN. Yet, you claim it can survive 10 cruise missiles fired at once? Dear god, if that's not powergaming, then I don't know what is. You also, as always, even in the current game, have the best trained, most technological, and the most populated army and navy in the world. The only nation that could claim that historiclly was Rome (and I don't mean Byzantium, I mean before Christ, Caesar-era Rome). I'd believe those claims if you were, like, NATO that became a nation (As in every single member decides to unite as one country called NATO), but you're not. And that is godmoding at its finest, as well. /You/ chose that my Venice was Naval based, not /me/. Remember, if you read my alternative history, Venice was still conquered by Napoleon, and then became part of Italy. Only by 2010 did they declare independence. One would correctly think that would be nothing like the Venice of old execpt for government and name.

Also, I bet you only said the final part to make me feel better. Well, I know that's a lie. I know that you expect yourself to win, single-handily, because your freaking Byzantium! May I remind you of 1453 and 1204? Byzantium was only a world power because there was no rivals and because Justinian's reforms and conquests (There's a reason why he's the leader of Byzantium in Civ) made Byzantium strong for a few centuries once there was rivals. Since Byzantium thought they were perfect after Justinian, Venice and the Turks both destroyed your empire. In fact, the Venetians were very nice to allow Byzantium to keep Constantinople, or I'd think 1453 would have never happened, and I don't mean a Byzantium victory, either.

 

[Mathalamus]

No, you haven't. Case of point, the Enterprise. It's from 1935, and yet you claim its just as good, if not even better, than modern carriers. That's freaking WWII-era! The modern Enterprise is from the 50s, and is rightfully outclassed by every single other aircraft carrier in the USN. Yet, you claim it can survive 10 cruise missiles fired at once? Dear god, if that's not powergaming, then I don't know what is. You also, as always, even in the current game, have the best trained, most technological, and the most populated army and navy in the world. The only nation that could claim that historiclly was Rome (and I don't mean Byzantium, I mean before Christ, Caesar-era Rome). I'd believe those claims if you were, like, NATO that became a nation (As in every single member decides to unite as one country called NATO), but you're not. And that is godmoding at its finest, as well. /You/ chose that my Venice was Naval based, not /me/. Remember, if you read my alternative history, Venice was still conquered by Napoleon, and then became part of Italy. Only by 2010 did they declare independence. One would correctly think that would be nothing like the Venice of old execpt for government and name.

can you be less windy? sheesh...

Enterprise issue: upgraded gradually and majorly and even rebuilt over the years. solved.

army and navy: nope. we aren't that advanced and the troops aren't that well trained.

Venice issue: sorry... i just assumed that it would be navy based since it.. you know.. doesn't have enough land to hold a major army like mine.

Also, I bet you only said the final part to make me feel better. Well, I know that's a lie. I know that you expect yourself to win, single-handily, because your freaking Byzantium! May I remind you of 1453 and 1204? Byzantium was only a world power because there was no rivals and because Justinian's reforms and conquests (There's a reason why he's the leader of Byzantium in Civ) made Byzantium strong for a few centuries once there was rivals. Since Byzantium thought they were perfect after Justinian, Venice and the Turks both destroyed your empire. In fact, the Venetians were very nice to allow Byzantium to keep Constantinople, or I'd think 1453 would have never happened, and I don't mean a Byzantium victory, either.

Byzantium was a great power ( if not super power) up until 1350s. maybe even sooner. dachs or someone even stated that Byzantium 1261 was the greatest power in the area.

Byzantium lost its super power status because of some damn stupid mistakes. that allowed Venice and the Turks to destroy the empire. all it takes is one mistake.

 

[Arakhor]

Mathalamus, please give it a rest! No one is interested in another you vs. Omega punch-up, especially in this thread!

 

[Zack]

I love it how that Zack and everyone else is ignoring my post because they know I'm right.

It's hard to reply when you're offline and not even on the computer.....

You're right, I could had used better wording, so I'll use this analogy.

Let's say you, in elementary school, was the loser kid whom nobody likes, besides their very close 1-6 friends because you're smart, love history, and video games (Face it, most of us were or are). Now, when your class is playing kickball, no one ever picks you, and almost everyone tells you to go away. How'd you feel then? (This, of course, assumes that you wanted to play said game of kickball, so don't give me crap like "Hey, I wouldn't want to play it anyways").

This analogy would work if you were applying it to, say, CivGeneral. But you're applying it to Domination, so it doesn't work at all, for the reasons that Thorvald said.

 

[Link]

In Tanicius's game, NPC's are way, way too powerful. Keep them week when this one starts, please.

 

[Cull]

I don't think so to be honest. The whole point of NPCs is too limit expansion, and they do their job quite well in TF's game. They also encourage diplomacy to take them down, which is a plus to me.s

 

[Omega124]

I was done with this argument, but since Zack popped up again, It'll only be fair to finish.

This analogy would work if you were applying it to, say, CivGeneral. But you're applying it to Domination, so it doesn't work at all, for the reasons that Thorvald said.

See post with ToL.

Venice issue: sorry... i just assumed that it would be navy based since it.. you know.. doesn't have enough land to hold a major army like mine.

Venice controlled freaking Italy! That's a good 301,338 km2. 783,562 km2 is Turkey. In terms of nations, that's not too different,

 

[GhostWriter16]

A valid point, I'll give you that, but then I don't see you going after Math. He's an (and please, Math, don't take it personally, I bet you're a nice guy in RL) annoying powergamer whom always has to assert his country's dominance, defies the rules of physics and money to get what he wants, and when I invade to get him to stop doing it, everyone takes it personally (This was ESPECAILY true in IOT III, where half the world DoWed me because I tried to kill him off. I'll attribute my story (where my troops committed mass genocides) as part of the reason (and honestly, it was only to add flavor and vent my rage from Math's powergaming. I didn't expect everyone wanting to embargo me and other crap because of it), but dear god, he was only one freaking providence. What difference?). Domination is new (He joined IOT IV very late into the game, and this is his first true game of it) at the game, so you can say he's a new kid whom transferred and doesn't know the rules. Math's been there from the beginning! So I don't understand why Domination gets the hate, and the others don't.



Again, valid point. He indeed did that stuff. However, you could compare himself to that ruler in SA (I think it was Bolivia), whom randomly DoWed all of his neighbors because he thought he was the next Napoleon (That's what he actually said, I didn't choose a random great general). He was defeated, obviously, but it does prove the point we do have these sporadic leaders whom change on the whim and do stupid things.



Not valid point! Like earlier said, this is Domination's first true game. He didn't get a second chance at all, ESPECAILLY compared to Math, whom didn't change, was here since the first one, and gets away scot-free. I'd say IOT V is his second chance, where he gets to truly know how the game works, and if he doesn't change then, then this is valid. But not now.



Um, no, Math is much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, etc, etc, worse. Powerplaying is the tool of Satan himself, and Domination doesn't powerplay. Heck, Math even godmodes at points (Like in IOT III, where he stated Venetian troops aren't trained as good as Byzantine), and besides that, they're exactly the same, spamming. I have three charges against Math, and only one against Dommy. Now, tell me, which is more, three or one? Exactly.

To add to the charges against Mathalamus, he created a portal from IOT IV to IOT II. Even if I attacked everyone in the game, I'm still FOLLOWING THE RULES OF PHYSICS.

Also, I must admit, when I threatened to DOW the GM, I really didn't even understand the game yet at all. And, by the end of IOT IV, I was so hated I had to use insane diplomacy just to survive.

I could add to my defense, but Omega's post was fair enough. No, I have not been perfect in these games, but when I break the rules, I not only get punished by the GMs/Mods but also get invaded by EVERYONE.

Sadly, when I look at Omega's political compass, I see the issue. All of you guys hate me in off topic, and so you take it here. Its a combination of that and people who are still bitter about IOT II.

I say this, if you guys seriously ban me BEFORE THE GAME STARTS I will ask Tanicius' permission to start a thread called IOT V just to defy you guys.

I hope everyone with reason (Pretty much anyone who has ever alligned with me EVER and there may be others) stays away from "IOT V."

 

[GhostWriter16]

One problem at a time.

As you may recall, as GM of IOT4 I was on the verge of banning both of them.

To be fair, I may have been judging this on his attitude on the forum as a whole, not just the game.

I find the chief difference is that Math will posture, but he will (grudgingly) concede to the GM. Domination, as proven in a few earlier examples and in this thread itself, demands his own way up to and including overriding the game rules.

Anyway, I think our positions are clear. I won't discuss this further here, but feel free to reach me through PM.

1. In the example with me threatening to DOW the GM, I really didn't get the rules at the time, it was more brazen confusion then anything.

PS: I nuked you

2. Perhaps this was true when I did not get the game, but that has simply not been true for a LONG TIME. Maybe you should PM Taniciusfox or something. I haven't defied him at all I don't think (Well, I did request ICBMs to kill Mathalamus, but when he refused to give them to me I let it go.

3. What "Attitude?" That I'm not a socialist? Huh? Thorvald even admitted what I was saying. No offense to Thorvald, but this assembly has lost its purpose. I suggest Joecoolyo come back and clean this mess up or IOT will never happen again.

 

[Double A]

I vote no of course.

And, you can't ban me from a game that hasn't begun yet!

Also, all I said was I will probably eventually DOW whoever picks China.

We already outvoted Athenian Democracy.

We're reinstating it.

I vote we ban Mathalamus for doing the same thing I'm doing.

Oh? He's been constantly threatening the GM and attacking other players?

I hadn't noticed.

The above quote is meta-Gaming. You should not declare war because he was a war monger in the past. The fact that he pmed me to say he will be a warmongering dictatorship in the next game is beside the point. his said his goal will be to conquer most of Asia, so I think his declaration of war on China is a fair one.

THAT'S THE ENTIRE ****ING POINT.

I vote no on the kicking dommy out of the game. i also vote against him be DoW by eveyone on the first turn.

This isn't meta gaming like Dwarf Fortress is winnable.

This game is based on the Renaissance, the reason there was no world wars before WW1 was because there was no defensive pacts before that. If two countries fought over a dispute, it would generally be left to those countries and those countries only. I think we should keep that in mind for the next IOT

Yeah, this is a pretty good point. Allies were typically very lose. And France and England would always be at war, which was fun for everyone!

I mostly agree.

Also, I never said I was gonna be a dictatorship.

And, Athenian Democracy fell anyway. But if what we voted on is subject to the votes, I vote we ban Mathalamus and anyone else who tries to powergame.

Ok, you say NO ATHENIAN DEMOCRACY IS BAD BAD BAD, but then you say you vote (implying democracy) to ban (implying Athens) powergamers? And then you don't even mention Ilduce?

I vote yes to banning Dommy.


This means Ilduce will have to be kicked!

I also vote to ban Dommy.

If I hadn't made that clear enough.

look i know this game is going to be in the Renaissance, an era i know nothing about. if i seem too advanced in that game please tell me. i may accidentally power-game my nation, and i apologize for that in advance.

'K.

It's basically the late medieval with more Italians.

I will power-game my nation

JOKE

Oh, you want a joke?

Ilduce isn't a powergamer.

I almost couldn't type it, it was so funny! This must be from the funniest joke ever skit on Monty Python!

Could you ban Math to? His Byzantium super-state and constant power-gaming gets on my nerves. I mean, I'll bet his nation would be Greek rebels trying to restore the empire (which not only do I approve of, but welcome it, as it would be interesting if done right), but he'll claim his rag-tag army will technology be superior to me, have more men, scare the **** out of my men, win every single battle (de jure, of course. If I siege and burn Athens to the ground, and he claims a de facto victory, I'll cry myself to sleep), etc, etc.

But he hasn't powergamed in months. How do you not see this?

Also, I have a great idea. Why not use AoE III to simulate battles? I own it, and would be more than happy to do it for you guys, because I'm nice like that (However, that means I'll need to buy Asian Dynasties, as some people want to play as Asians. I already have Warchiefs, though). There's a lot of countries, each with their own, fitting units, and I bet many would play as the exact nations themselves, with a few that need to improvise (Scavadavia using Russia, Italy using Spain, among others. One nation that needs no improvising surprisingly is Germany. Tell me when Germany actually colonized.). Warchiefs add playable natives (Though only three, so unless you're the Iroquois, Aztecs, or Sioux, you're not going to be the exact nation), and AD adds another three (India, China, and Japan).

AOEIII is a bit too advanced. We want 1500's, and that's 1700's.

Also, I can't find AD. Which is worse than not finding RoN, because Japan is fudgingg awesome to play as. And India gets elephants.

You said you wanted to ban anyone who powergames. Ilduce is the undisputed champion of powergaming.

He's in freaking Websters'.

I said no reasons to ban me FROM THIS GAME.

What are you smoking?

Democracy triumphs, and becomes a dictatorship of the majority.

Yeah, well, the minorities can get stuffed.

Such as you. Good bye.

EVERYONE SHUT UP ABOUT BANNING PEOPLE

No one has the right to ban anyone. It's not fair to the person wanting to play the game. I'll admit the powergaming and spamming gets annoying, moreso the former over the latter, but maybe Dommy and Math they're helping the game's plot (and therefore don't think they're spamming). How would you like it if everyone wants you banned because you write long stories that "stretch the page"? With that being said, I retract my wish to ban Math, but the rest of my point in that paragraph still stands.

Yay! You've come back down to earth! Well, to the atmostphere anyway.

Also, I'm kinda sure that if it's your game, you hold the undisputed right to ban anyone you want, at any time.

While it's a good analogy, it's unfortunately inappropriate for the situation. Take that picture, and imagine the kid forces himself into the game, never passes the ball, never lets go of the ball, and when the teacher blows the whistle and tells him he's not following the rules, he throws the ball at the teacher's face.

That's the kind of people we are opting to ban from the game. While I admit that Dommy and ilduce do liven the game up a bit, they do so in the wrong way. Joecoolyo in IOT4 made it clear that his power politics were symptomatic of his roleplaying, and he played within the rules. Dommy did nothing but disrupt the process. Practically every second post was his, on some inane, typically off-topic subject. He didn't seem to grasp the "role-play" aspect, instead making and breaking alliances every turn, or within the same turn. He did nothing to advance the game save bring everyone to war.

Your analogy would be apt if Dommy was the guy who messed up once and never got a second chance. On the contrary, he's had plenty of opportunities to shape up, but he quite pointedly proves he has no interest in doing so. Why shouldn't we ban him?

I'm not saying we should hold regular lynch mobs, but there are a few people who only detract from the experience. Mathalamus was the original poster child. Domination was even worse. You say you're disliked, but you play by the rules of the game. This ties in with the subject of game etiquette. We can't ban someone just because we don't like their avatar, or their politics, or their grammar. We can ban someone for cause.

I'm just quoting this because it's so freaking true.

 

[GhostWriter16]

We're reinstating it.



Oh? He's been constantly threatening the GM and attacking other players?

I hadn't noticed.



THAT'S THE ENTIRE ****ING POINT.



This isn't meta gaming like Dwarf Fortress is winnable.



Yeah, this is a pretty good point. Allies were typically very lose. And France and England would always be at war, which was fun for everyone!



Ok, you say NO ATHENIAN DEMOCRACY IS BAD BAD BAD, but then you say you vote (implying democracy) to ban (implying Athens) powergamers? And then you don't even mention Ilduce?





I also vote to ban Dommy.

If I hadn't made that clear enough.



'K.

It's basically the late medieval with more Italians.



Oh, you want a joke?

Ilduce isn't a powergamer.

I almost couldn't type it, it was so funny! This must be from the funniest joke ever skit on Monty Python!



But he hasn't powergamed in months. How do you not see this?



AOEIII is a bit too advanced. We want 1500's, and that's 1700's.

Also, I can't find AD. Which is worse than not finding RoN, because Japan is fudgingg awesome to play as. And India gets elephants.



He's in freaking Websters'.



What are you smoking?



Yeah, well, the minorities can get stuffed.

Such as you. Good bye.



Yay! You've come back down to earth! Well, to the atmostphere anyway.

Also, I'm kinda sure that if it's your game, you hold the undisputed right to ban anyone you want, at any time.



I'm just quoting this because it's so freaking true.

This is

THIS GAME I have yet to break any rules.

Also, Ilduce point is valid, even if I am a dictatorship, you can't ban me for my playstyle. If you can, IOT is worthless. That's why we really can't ban Mathalamus either ..

To the bolded part:

What are you smoking? Creating a portal isn't powergaming? Wow?

While we're on Athenian Democracy, I guess I have to vote to ban you too, as well as everyone else who has seriously suggested banning me. Of course, this is stupid, but no more stupid than banning me on majority vote.

Omega, I beseech you, leave this game. There is no value to it now. I fight for my dignity, my right to be here, and in hope Joecoolyo will clean this mess up. But its not likely. Please keep defending me, please don't join the game if they start banning people on a whim.

 

[Omega124]

(Not qouting because getting rid of crap on the Wii is a nightmare)

Eh, you may be right, its just that I freaking love AoEIII. However, TF uses RA3, which (and I'm being dead serious) takes place in the 1950s. And warfare didn't change much between 1500-1700 execpt for heavier reliance of guns. I do, however, own RoN, incase anyone has too many problems with Empire (Which in that case, I'll use the Gunpowder Age).

 

[GhostWriter16]

Except there are still no valid claims until the game is announced. I could claim China now if I felt like it, but it would be just as invalid.

Domination, give up and shut up for once in your life, please.

The first paragraph here was valid, however, I wasn't the first one to claim. I wasn't sure if it was real or just for fun.

You can't just say "NO, my alliance dude who I set up so that all three of us could conquer Asia together was supposed to be there, I'm going to DOW you as soon as you spawn! WAH!!!".

EDIT: Ah, Arakhor beat me too it. And his post was better too. Pooh.

This post was pretty funny.

Just ban Domination.

And this one killed the thread. Seriously, if any offense is worth banning for, killing the thread is it. Though I still don't support banning everyone.

Thorvald, can you please just apologize for killing the thread and reverse this post, then we can just report people who continue this nonsense and this thread can move on?

 

[GhostWriter16]

(Not qouting because getting rid of crap on the Wii is a nightmare)

Eh, you may be right, its just that I freaking love AoEIII. However, TF uses RA3, which (and I'm being dead serious) takes place in the 1950s. And warfare didn't change much between 1500-1700 execpt for heavier reliance of guns. I do, however, own RoN, incase anyone has too many problems with Empire (Which in that case, I'll use the Gunpowder Age).

I would thank you for going onto topic, however, I see no way this thread will live unless:

A: Thorvald reverses his post

B: Joecoolyo reverses Thorvald's Post

C: Joecoolyo upholds it and I get banned.

 

[Zack]

@everything Domination has said:

Strawman

noun
1. a person used as a cover for some questionable activity [syn: front man]
2. a weak or sham argument set up to be easily refuted [syn: straw man]
3. an effigy in the shape of a man to frighten birds away from seeds [syn: scarecrow]

 

[Omega124]

I`ll stand by you, in this case. However, I don't think its nessercary becaue...


I CALL DIBS ON MODDING THIS BABY