IOT Developmental Thread

[Arakhor]

And that is up to the game GMs to regulate, not you. Posting about it publicly is rude and looks like sour grapes.

 

[Joecoolyo]

If you don't mind, Joecoolyo, I'm calling an official vote and hope more people will actually vote this time.

I don't mind at all

Current Votes

Please vote for each dot points separately, and if you vote against something please say what it is that you oppose so we know what to work on

Revised Draft Rule
- Starting/Expansion rules
- Economy rules
- Research/Technology rules
- War and Diplomacy rules
- Housekeeping rules rules

Yay

Ideas from Lighthearter
- Lighthearter's Combat System (LCS)
- Advisors

Nay

Unit Upkeep
- Subtract a small amount of gold per turn as unit upkeep costs, and forcibly disband units if upkeep > income.

Yay

The Cabinet

So far this is the GM line-up:

Executive GM (responsible for updates, claims, diplomacy, discipline) - Joecoolyo
Economy and Technology GM - Taillesskangaru
Combat GM - Lighthearter

Edit: CivGeneral volunteers for Cartographer
Omega volunteers for Combat, though apparently he wants to simulate battles with PC games.
Edit 2: Annnn...Droopy volunteers for summary write-up

If anyone want to suggest and/or volunteer for a position you can.

I don't mind CivG being cartographer (less work for me ), but Droopy, is it okay that I take the position to write up the summary? Since I'm not actually going to be playing, I'd like to be able to do something creative besides the usual governing stuff.

 

[Zack]

I vote the same as Joe.

 

[Lighthearter]

Honestly I don't see why my version of combat is more complicated then tailess'. And realistically with his system there are potential situations in which someone cannot win a fight - and that's not fun in a game. In mine I'm the only person who must worry about the rules and such - everyone else can just send me their orders.

The adviser system I admit is a little bit ambitious and complex. I wasn't really trying to get it in - just a vague thought.

I'll vote later.

- Lighthearter

 

[Omega124]

i vote to deny him this. he doesn't like me so he may fudge the battle into Byzantium's disadvantage. i suggest someone who isnt willing to kill me.

Oh screw you Math, you're starting to act like a Nixon to my Democratic Party.

All right, that was low, but I had to get that off my chest.

Please tell me how could I possibly rig the games at any point? I'm not even playing the game, it's CPU vs. CPU! There's absolutely no way I can influence how the fight goes, execpt for choice of nation (And, for example, in RoN you would be Greeks, in AoE III, you would be Spain or Portugal, your choice).

 

[Joecoolyo]

Alright, to prevent further derailing:

Math, stop instigating. Omega won't do anything to you. Just because he didn't like you last game doesn't mean it will transfer over to this game.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Alright, a comment.

If the Natives are gonna be equal to the Europeans in every way, we REALLY need to limit the number, otherwise, it won't be a colonization based game. I vote 5 Non-Native nations to one native nation.

I would personally like them to just start with less tech but barring that this is my suggestion.

 

[Double A]

I think Indians should be less technologically advanced but have a crapton of guys, so it balances out.

And, uh, Europe cured half of the diseases by abandoning the Catholic church and burning their dead.

 

[Mathalamus]

I think Indians should be less technologically advanced but have a crapton of guys, so it balances out.

And, uh, Europe cured half of the diseases by abandoning the Catholic church and burning their dead.

im not sure a couple million qualifies as a crapton.

 

[Arakhor]

Mainly because a "crapton" is not a recognised standard unit of numerical measurement.

 

[Joecoolyo]

Alright, a comment.

If the Natives are gonna be equal to the Europeans in every way, we REALLY need to limit the number, otherwise, it won't be a colonization based game. I vote 5 Non-Native nations to one native nation.

I would personally like them to just start with less tech but barring that this is my suggestion.

It's not really a colonization based game, it's an empire building game set during the colonization period. Colonization is an after thought, most of our concern is building giant, a-historical empires.

And I'd love to see a native empire rise and take on the European colonists.

 

[DroopyTofu]

I don't mind CivG being cartographer (less work for me ), but Droopy, is it okay that I take the position to write up the summary? Since I'm not actually going to be playing, I'd like to be able to do something creative besides the usual governing stuff.

Alright. If there are any other openings, I might be interested in filling in, but hopefully not to time consuming.

 

[Double A]

im not sure a couple million qualifies as a crapton.

A crapton compared to the men the Europeans send.

If you guys take everything literally you'll be ostracized from the Internet.

 

[Tee Kay]

If you place limits on Native Americans we ought to penalize people who starts in the deserts or Siberia or in the jungles or Africa or Asia too.

I say no limitations on players based on geography, and of course historical accuracy be damned.

Honestly I don't see why my version of combat is more complicated then tailess'.

Well, they're essentially based around the same ideas, except there are more steps in your version that you need to go through to decide a battle. I think this is a good thing, but it seems the public wants simplicity.

And realistically with his system there are potential situations in which someone cannot win a fight - and that's not fun in a game.

Yes, that's an issue... I suppose if there's a draw I'd just run the battle again until there's a winner.

Oh right I'm supposed to vote too...

YES to all except for the part dealing with my combat system, because on second thought I like Lighthearter's better.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Revised Draft Rule
- Starting/Expansion rules
- Economy rules
- Research/Technology rules
- War and Diplomacy rules
- Housekeeping rules rules

Not sure what I'm voting on here. I do think some changes would be useful but not sure what the current system is.

Ideas from Lighthearter
- Lighthearter's Combat System (LCS)
- Advisors

If he's talking about the grid maps then no. If not, I'm not sure what it is.

ABSTAIN on advisors.

Unit Upkeep
- Subtract a small amount of gold per turn as unit upkeep costs, and forcibly disband units if upkeep > income.

I agree except that hypothetically you should be allowed to run a deficit (Think the United States) though since that's probably too complex I say yes.

Also, feel free to do what you like with the cabinet. I'll vote YES to everyone who's volunteered to keep things moving. If they are a bad choice they'll probably still get voted out by someone with more knowledge than me.

i can trust everyone. exept omega and domination. i just dont think they have proven their ability to be impartial when it comes to me.

I can't speak for Omega, but there are three primary reasons I like to fight you in these games.

One is that you ALWAYS pick the Byzantines. I would propose a rule not to allow always picking the same country, however, it is a minor point and this alone won't affect what people do to you.

However, the biggest one is POWERGAMING and I mean REALLY BAD POWERGAMING (Inter-dimensional portals and 20 million soldiers come to mind.) If I do get in, I'll certainly give you a fresh start in this regard each game, but each game you do it I won't like you.

The final reason is that your nation is a coward, and won't honor their DPs and alliances when things get tough. That makes me distrustful.

PS: I don't think DPs should exist in the Renaissance as they historically didn't, though we could find them later with techs.

It's not really a colonization based game, it's an empire building game set during the colonization period. Colonization is an after thought, most of our concern is building giant, a-historical empires.

And I'd love to see a native empire rise and take on the European colonists.

I know its not all about colonization, but there should be a focus on colonization, like real life!

There seem to be two sides here, one side wants to give the Native Americans every single disadvantage they had in real life so they don't even have a snowballs chance, others want to make them the same as Europe in the Americas and even allow them to colonize Europe.

I don't really agree with either side. I agree with being able to "See the natives stop colonization" and I don't think the natives should be instantly destroyed by Europe. However, I think an environment that colonization is a possibility for Europe early, while giving the Natives a chance to come back and become as powerful (Or more) than Europe.

Here's what I propose:

Each individual army of the Indians is weaker than the European ones, but not by much. They will be cheaper to compensate.

A certain tech will be needed to colonize the other side of the world. The natives will be 1-2 techs behind, not much, but enough to give Europe the jump.

The natives can expand at the same rate as anyone else otherwise.

This makes the natives tough enough to fight colonization without making them colonize Europe right away, which is nonsense. Its a stretch to say the Indians can beat the Europeans, but its a stretch I'm OK with. I'm not OK with them colonizing Europe, which is impossible, hence my proposition. I ask it be put up for vote.

 

[Arakhor]

I'm happy to go with any rules that are clear, simple and effectively policed.

Domination, power-gaming cuts both ways. You aren't allowed missiles that utterly destroy anything Byzantine, simply because you don't like him.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Domination, power-gaming cuts both ways. You aren't allowed missiles that utterly destroy anything Byzantine, simply because you don't like him.

I would agree, however, I don't know where I tried, not counting my joke in IOT II of course.

EDIT: Don't post it here though, its off topic.

I'd like some comments about my rules for the Natives (South Africa and Australia would be counted.)

While its not particularly anyone's fault, allowing Native Canoes to go to Europe seems powergamey to me.

 

[Lighthearter]

Revised Draft Rule
- Starting/Expansion rules
- Economy rules
- Research/Technology rules
- War and Diplomacy rules
- Housekeeping rules rules

Yes to all but war.

Ideas from Lighthearter
- Lighthearter's Combat System (LCS)
- Advisors

Yes to both.

Unit Upkeep
- Subtract a small amount of gold per turn as unit upkeep costs, and forcibly disband units if upkeep > income.

Yes

@Dommy - no, not the grid system. Go check the page before last.

- Lighthearter

 

[Mathalamus]

One is that you ALWAYS pick the Byzantines. I would propose a rule not to allow always picking the same country, however, it is a minor point and this alone won't affect what people do to you.

that rule is silly. i should be allowed to pay whom i wish. who knows.. i might even surprise you.

However, the biggest one is POWERGAMING and I mean REALLY BAD POWERGAMING (Inter-dimensional portals and 20 million soldiers come to mind.) If I do get in, I'll certainly give you a fresh start in this regard each game, but each game you do it I won't like you.

Joe says population and military do not really matter in this game. i can have 120 million people and 500,000 people in the military and he wont care. cause it isnt supposed to be historically accurate. you can do the same thing you know.just keep the military below 5% of your population.

The final reason is that your nation is a coward, and won't honor their DPs and alliances when things get tough. That makes me distrustful.

what can i say? im self serving. All people has the option to do this, and some did. dont be mad at me.

PS: I don't think DPs should exist in the Renaissance as they historically didn't, though we could find them later with techs.

no, keep it, it did exist in a way.

 

[GhostWriter16]

that rule is silly. i should be allowed to pay whom i wish. who knows.. i might even surprise you.

Of course! I'll take free money!

Seriously though, what if someone else wants to play in Turkey?

Joe says population and military do not really matter in this game. i can have 120 million people and 500,000 people in the military and he wont care. cause it isnt supposed to be historically accurate. you can do the same thing you know.just keep the military below 5% of your population.

Well, I think 120 million people with 500,000 guys in the military is reasonable, although that's just me, its a similar ratio to what the US has now, so unless something was different then (There was less population so there's no way you are getting that many people, but if you did) you would be fine.

However, if you had the same 120 million and had 20 million in your military, there is no way that should be allowed, its powergaming, stupid, and ruins the game, powergaming should be illegal, even if it has no affect. In fact, to discourage it, there should be a negative effect.

what can i say? im self serving. All people has the option to do this, and some did. dont be mad at me.

Yep, and I'm never signing a DP with you because you can't be trusted.

no, keep it, it did exist in a way.

I'm not sure if they existed or not EVER, I don't even think they did, but there is no way the entire world was tangled in alliances. If we are doing Renaissance, we have to play like Renaissance. There was diplomacy of course, but during war, people were more or less everybody for himself.

Of course, DPs could be invented later via tech.