IOT Developmental Thread

[Thorvald of Lym]

Back when tailless was toying with the idea of supply centres, I proposed decontamination projects. He might be able to work that in to XPs/LPs.

 

[ilduce349]

Hey I was the one who suggested Supply centers...

 

[Sonereal]

Revised idea!

Spoiler :

Sonereal's IOT

For those who want a nice, fluid, long IOT, I hope this it. I'm trying to set it up to be complex without being too complicated. I'm also setting it up so new players can join in whenever.

Starting off

Pick one territory on the map. That is your single starting claim. It has Level 4 Agriculture and what's better is that you haven't research the first tech "Neolithic Revolution".

You also start with 50 manpower.

If you want to play, post your claims….claim with the following.

Nation Name:
Government:
Mark capital with a black dot
Name of Capital:
Other stuff you want to put:

New Player Rule

For players that join after the first update, it's still possible to join. Even if players are starting to reach construction. New players, when they join, have all the techs of the nation with the least amount of techs minus that player's most expensive tech. These players pretty much start off as third world nations but with the ability to quickly get into the groove of things.

New players can also take over NPC and Puppet Nations if they wish. If a player's nation is inactive for more than two turns, the nation is dissolved into NPCs.

Claiming

You don't just post claims. You use military units to claim territory. Pretty much march or sail an army into neutral territory and claim it. Each army can only claims one territory per turn.

Manpower

Agriculture generates food which equals manpower.

Manpower is used to-

-Create Troops
-Improve Agriculture Level (Costs 10 for the first level, 20 for the second, and so on)
-Put into Tech
-Stored

Each territory has an agriculture level ranging from 0-4. 0 doesn't produce any manpower.

Level 1: Costs 10 Manpower. Generates 1 manpower per turn.
Level 2: Costs 20. Generates 2.
Level 3: Costs 30. Generates 3.
Level 4: Costs 40: Generates 4.

That 50 manpower is very important in the beginning. The first tech, Neolithic Revolution, will double your food income for each level and it only costs 20 manpower which is about two claims and improving two territories to Level 1 so its up to you what you do in that regard).

Storing Manpower is important. Soon, you'll be producing a large surplus (hopefully) and having extra manpower is a good thing. For instance, you could buy a warrior for 10 manpower right off the bat but you have to take these things into consideration.

A.) All units cost 2 MP per turn to maintain during peace time.
B.) During war, combat units have HP which can only be refilled with manpower.
C.) Disbanding units get back half of the MP cost.

Warfare

On the map, Armies are shown. Armies are made up of units. Players can add units to armies in friendly territory. Likewise, Navies are the naval form.

I'll use an RNG for this. Each unit has 20 HP and strength and a special effect. When a defender wins a battle, the attacker remains on the territory they're attacking from and both sides will lose HP. When a unit runs out of HP, they're destroyed. A territory that has a battle fought on it doesn't produce food the next turn and flanking matters (anyway).

Movement points also play into calculations.

New techs open up new units which allows greater customization of armies.

Fortifications

The fortification level of all territories start at 0. The maximum level is 4. Raising the fortification level costs 15 manpower for the first level, 30 for the second, and so on.

Armies defending from a fort get a bonus when defending and certain techs increases this bonus.

So, why shouldn't you just make all your territory Level 4 trench lines and forts? Each level reduces food generation in the territory.

Level 1: Costs 15 manpower. Reduces Manpower generation 25%
Level 2: Costs 30 manpower. Reduces Manpower generation by 50%
Level 3: Costs 45 manpower. Reduces generation by 75%
Level 4: Costs 60 manpower. Stops manpower generation.

A string of fortifications is the difference between victory and defeat.




Governments-in-Exile

A nation can set up a government-in-exile in an consenting nation's capital.

Diplomacy and War

Players should engage in diplomacy with one another of course but war diplomacy is something I need to explain. When an Army occupies an enemy territory, that territory isn't automatically annexed. It's occupied. Occupied territories don't generate food for the attacker or defender.

The longer the territory is occupied, the most fierce the resistance from the local population becomes until rebel units start spawning. The longer the occupation, the more rebels that are spawn. This can slowly become a drain on your manpower. Occupying armies can destroy the Agriculture level of the province they're on.

Even if you occupy all the territory of another nation, you can annex all the territory if you choose but you will have to deal with rebels for a while. After a set amount of turns, the rebellion will die down. However, if the leader of that nation sets up a Government-in-Exile in another nation, then the rebellion continues.

In a peace treaty, the fighting nations need to negotiate the post-war map. War is a constant drain on manpower and eventually, both sides will get tired.

Puppet States

Say you annex territory in a war, you can establish puppet states with said territory. This will lower the revolt rate and the NPC puppet will train its own military units and the like in a fashion. However, the revolt rate will never be zero and sometimes, a major revolt will require you to step in. For the most part however, puppeting is a good thing.

Revolt

Occupied territory: 20% each turn of rebel spawn.

Annexed territory: 40% each turn of rebel spawn. This number goes down 5% each turn unless there's a government-in-exile and a state of war. At 20%, this number goes down 1% per turn until it reaches zero and becomes domestic territory.

Puppet State: 10% each turn of rebel spawn.

Domestic Rebellion: Each HP lost during a war increases this number by 1% (it starts at zero). Each turn, this number goes down by .5%. In other words, say you lose only 1 HP during a turn, that's only .5% overall. 2% is really 1.5% and so on.

Units

Warrior: 2(movement)/10 (manpower cost): These are you starting units. What makes them special is the fact you can use them en masse. Early on, this units are decent but to field a huge army of them still costs food per turn and losses during battle still matter.

Archer: 2/20. These units are your first support weapons. Having archers in your armies will increase the effectiveness of your melee units.

Spearmen: 2/25. These units are great for holding a line in battle and against mounted units. They are able to beat warriors 1v1 but when outnumbered, things get dicey. Best used in tandem with Archers.

Swordsmen: 2/40. These units are much more powerful than warriors. They do have to worry about mounted units however.

Chariot Archer: 4/35. These units are terrible defenders and can't be put into a fort. They are extremely useful when dealing with dealing with opposing support units. Weak against spearmen.

Horsemen: 4/45. These units are useful against melee units but have problems against spears. They are counter-chariot units.

Catapult: 2/50: Catapults are powerful support units to use against forts. In the field, they are decent against melee units. Their attacks are poor against fast units and other support units.
Triremes (Naval Unit): 4/25. These are the first units you can add to your Navy. If a warrior or swordsmen unit are added on to Triremes, they gain the ability to board other units and engage in combat. Boarding ships are a useful way to increase the size of a fleet.

Their primary attack is ramming. When they capture land units at sea, they destroy the unit and add the manpower cost to their nation.


Techs

Neolithic Revolution (20 Manpower): Doubles Food Production

Archery (Requires NR, 40 Manpower): Enables Archers

Sailing (Requires NR, 50 manpower): Enables Triremes

Bronzeworking (Requires NR, 50 Manpower): Enables Spearmen

The Wheel (Requires Archery, 70 Manpower): Enables Chariot Archers

Horseback Riding (Requires The Wheel, 90 Manpower): Enables Horsemen

Iron Working (Requires Bronzeworking, 80 Manpower): Enables Swordsmen

Mathematics (Requires The Wheel, Ironworking. 100 Manpower): Enables Catapults

Construction (Requires Mathematics, 110 Manpower): Increases fortification bonus.

Espionage

Espionage, for now, is limited. It is as simple as gifting manpower to rebels which increases the revolt rate and size of the revolt.

 

[Link]

Too complex. Wouldn't last.

 

[Sonereal]

Too complex. Wouldn't last.

Thank you for telling me its complex without telling me why it's too complex. Very helpful.

I've seen IOTs more simple than this die out and more complicated last a while so I don't see what you're pushing at.

 

[ilduce349]

hey, Ab Antiquo was the most complicated and it lasted for a while.
What needs to happen is the game mechanics need to be complicated but the playability needs to be simple (as in, random events and other uncontrollable factors need to be complicated. But the stuff the player needs to do should be simple)
This way it doesn't take to long to play (unless your the gm) and you can spend most of your time roleplaying. But it still is realistic.

 

[Sonereal]

What needs to happen is the game mechanics need to be complicated but the playability needs to be simple (as in, random events and other uncontrollable factors need to be complicated. But the stuff the player needs to do should be simple)
This way it doesn't take to long to play (unless your the gm) and you can spend most of your time roleplaying. But it still is realistic.

The way its set up, the provinces only have five different levels of food production. The first tech doubles this. I've trimmed off the strength part of units and some of the complicated naval stuff I was going to use. I'm probably going to drop the Naval boarding thing.

I'll handle the math part myself for each player so no player has no think about how much Manpower they have. The complexity is required to make diplomacy interesting and the game last a while.

So far, I know I need to tweak naval boarding and mention that fortifications can be dismantled. I want the game to last a while so the tech costs will be pretty impressive as time goes on.

Since Armies and Fleet, not individual units, are shown on the map. I don't have to worry about having to deal with a ton of boxes on the screen.

 

[ilduce349]

I'll handle the math part myself for each player so no player has no think about how much Manpower they have. The complexity is required to make diplomacy interesting and the game last a while.

What should be interesting is adding resources.
Have Uranium, Oil, Rare Earths, and a few other rare resources (to be uncovered after a certian tech) that are crucial for a developed nation. It adds a whole nother level to diplomacy. Only a few provinces will have resources, so these special few will be more important, and as resources start to diminish late game, it becomes especially interesting on the diplo aspect.

 

[Sonereal]

What should be interesting is adding resources.
Have Uranium, Oil, Rare Earths, and a few other rare resources (to be uncovered after a certian tech) that are crucial for a developed nation. It adds a whole nother level to diplomacy. Only a few provinces will have resources, so these special few will be more important, and as resources start to diminish late game, it becomes especially interesting on the diplo aspect.

I toyed around with the idea previously but had to dismiss it. It added a hell of a lot of micro for both players and me. Later on, units will cost Manpower and Industrial Capacity which I thankfully won't have to worry about until the Industrial Revolution sweeps the game.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

I've GM-ed a game with resources and trust me its to complicated, I've started to make a program in VB 2008 so I can manage my religions IOT

 

[DroopyTofu]

May I suggest an IOT where the term "Sphere of Influence" is outlawed and trying to claim one results in immediate banning from the game. I get really tired of "I'm gonna claim aallllllllllllll this land, and if you try and claim any, then I'm going to threaten to declare war until you withdrawl your claim. To me, SOI's ruin the fun of rushing to grab the best land before others do and having to respond to someone taking something you wanted. With SOI's in IOT IV, half the world borders are already drawn up, and having to claim five at a time is just a formality.

 

[W|M]

May I suggest an IOT where the term "Sphere of Influence" is outlawed and trying to claim one results in immediate banning from the game. I get really tired of "I'm gonna claim aallllllllllllll this land, and if you try and claim any, then I'm going to threaten to declare war until you withdrawl your claim. To me, SOI's ruin the fun of rushing to grab the best land before others do and having to respond to someone taking something you wanted. With SOI's in IOT IV, half the world borders are already drawn up, and having to claim five at a time is just a formality.

, those who weren't eager to carve up the world were forced into doing so to take whatever land was left (like me. The good news for me is that there's only one other country in South America).

 

[GhostWriter16]

May I suggest an IOT where the term "Sphere of Influence" is outlawed and trying to claim one results in immediate banning from the game. I get really tired of "I'm gonna claim aallllllllllllll this land, and if you try and claim any, then I'm going to threaten to declare war until you withdrawl your claim. To me, SOI's ruin the fun of rushing to grab the best land before others do and having to respond to someone taking something you wanted. With SOI's in IOT IV, half the world borders are already drawn up, and having to claim five at a time is just a formality.

I see your point, but don't really agree. For instance, what if I have an SOI and you claim there not knowing I wanted that, and what if you would not have done so otherwise? I could just declare war on you, or we could work out a deal ahead of time.

As for "I'm gonna claim ALL this land", well you could declare an SOI of the world sure, but that's crap and everyone will decline to accept it.

If there was a game with a casus beli system, making SOI breach not valid cause for war would be OK, but just banning them won't work, people will still manipulate it in PMs.

 

[ilduce349]

I would still discuss SOI's in pm and deny it. Make agreements of expansion time just makes sense.

 

[GhostWriter16]

I would still discuss SOI's in pm and deny it. Make agreements of expansion time just makes sense.

Well, if it was cheating I wouldn't do it, but I don't see how such a rule could be enforced. And besides, its easy to make an "SOI" without using the word, just PM a couple of people and say "If anyone besides me claims X territories we'll both go to war with them, in return I'll agree to help you in war if anyone other than you claims Y territories."

 

[DroopyTofu]

That doesn't bother me for stuff like PM's and smal areas, or agreeing on a border with your next-door-neighbor, but posting a huge swath of land that has everything you ever want to control and threatening people that try and expand there is different.

 

[Sonereal]

That doesn't bother me for stuff like PM's and smal areas, or agreeing on a border with your next-door-neighbor, but posting a huge swath of land that has everything you ever want to control and threatening people that try and expand there is different.

But that player can't possibly be successful unless the international community supports it.

After all, SoIs aren't binding.

 

[GhostWriter16]

That doesn't bother me for stuff like PM's and smal areas, or agreeing on a border with your next-door-neighbor, but posting a huge swath of land that has everything you ever want to control and threatening people that try and expand there is different.

So your issue is the size of SOIs and not their existence at all. That makes more sense, but remember an SOI can be ignored anyway.

So my better solution is just allow SOIs and let people ignore them or accept them at their pleasure.

 

[DroopyTofu]

Even if I don't accept an SOI, that doesn't prevent the other nation from declaring war on me if I expand normally.

I consider working out a common border with a close neighbor in PM's different from claiming a large swath of land and telling people that you are the only one allowed to claim there.

 

[GhostWriter16]

If the SOI is ridiculous, the world may go against them. That's the best that could be done IRL.