christos200
Never tell me the odds
Tani, what will happen if all states decide to leave the Union at the same time?
IOT Developmental Thread
- Thread starter Joecoolyo
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Clearly the World Government follows the USSR's example of the early-90s and lob nuclear weapons in every direction.
NedimNapoleon
Weird Little Human
or Yugoslavia 2.0
Tani Coyote
Son of Huehuecoyotl
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Except go to the federal government and request an injunction that the debts be paid, which is presumed to happen behind the scenes.
The states have nowhere to stand in the face of federal decrees. Unlike America, the Union's constitution states pretty blatantly that states' rights are dead. They are given autonomy because it produces better results to have things governed locally, rather than any divine right to such.
Sure, the states could repossess assets. However, that would most likely be against federal laws. And when it comes to a clash of laws, whoever has the bigger guns wins. It isn't the states of the Federation that have those.
The process is as follows:
-State racks up large debt, stops paying for a decade
-Bank gets antsy, request for payment is ignored
-Bank goes to other state where that state has considerable assets and convinces the third party to repossess them in exchange for financial incentives
-State A could go to the federal courts about State B's action, but federal courts having been appointed by those with a vested interest in the banking system and looking at the terms of the loan, they're going to side with State B and the bank
-State A could also use its own security forces to repossess bank assets in retribution, but doing so violates the principles of due compensation and so will not stand in federal court either; if state A refuses to comply with federal injunctions it could suffer serious consequences.
Conclusion: don't rack up debt and show no intent to pay it. This is a non-issue.
A bit different, as the United States is the supreme government and Wisconsin is subordinate. While the United States is a federation that grants a great deal of equality to its subunits, the FUN is more akin to a unitary state that masks itself as a federation; if it wants to cram something down a state's throat, they have to accept it.
It's not the Federation that's defaulting in this case.
Those are countries, not states within a union.
They can claim it all they want. I can tell you right away that the Confederacy had a much better chance of beating the United States than any unit in MPV has of beating the Federation.
The fact of the matter is stronger governments coerce weaker governments to pay their debts. It's why the United States occupied Haiti, because otherwise Europe was going to so as to guarantee it got its money.
That was just a number. The point is that creditors want evidence you will repay them. Ignoring your debt for several turns isn't a sign of that.
The point is no state will ever be able to come close to fielding a force capable of fighting the Peacekeepers. The Federation rules through the consent of half the states and economic and military dominance of the other half. The average citizen benefits too much from the Union to wish to leave it.
See how you have countless people always griping about how the federal government of the USA is run, yet few of them have the gall to actually attempt secession. And those who would try would be blown away by the overwhelming might of the military.
This new world order is no different; you either benefit from the status quo or know there's no way you'd be able to break away from it.
Won't happen.
It would be akin to common citizens trying to fight the army.
The Peacekeepers are trained to be loyal to the Union, not their nation of origin.
Mathalamus
Emperor of Mathalia
i do remind you that FUN certainty doesn't have a large enough army to stop all the nations from leaving. its too disorganized to retake an entire planet. especially if the nations were prepared before doing so, as its common sense.
Tani, im sorry, but its probably best to keep the UN weak again. or even nonexistent. there's no reason for it to unify in the first place. there are no aliens, no threat to humanity as a whole, nothing. unifying humanity to rid itself of war is... not possible, not without a major external focus.
Thorvald of Lym
A Little Sketchy
Solution: tailless plays the Scrin.
Tani Coyote
Son of Huehuecoyotl
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By that logic the United States army couldn't whoop the ass of the state militias given time. With all the planes, tanks, etc. federal forces have in this scenario (don't forget orbital weapons that make attempting to face them on the field of battle impossible), the states are at a heavy disadvantage.
This is all hypothetical anyway since a sizable number of states will benefit from the Union at any time and not wish to secede.
Who said there wasn't some sort of extraterrestrial interests in play here...?
Mathalamus
Emperor of Mathalia
yeah, but they have no support base, and the Federal government reduced to DC would very quickly end. state militias are strong when there's barely any military presence there.
the scattered military would have no choice but to either defect to their home provinces, or to other nations.
ill say it again: if the central government collapses, who will keep them supplied, or paid? it may take decades to retake the USA the hard way.
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I decided against doing a fresh start IOT for the ruleset I've been working on, which means I'll probably have to restrict good countries for decent players, such as France.
Yes, French borders are wonky. France was easily the undisputed master for well over a century until the beginning of the lynchpin war of the game, the Thirty-Years War (which was actually over thirty years but #YOLO). Namely, France and Portugal went in for a routine beatdown of Spain and along the way something snapped. Spain beat Portugal, and annexed most of Portugal, leading to France occupying the entire peninsula. The war stalemated with France having a solid war score of 40, but unable to get over that, and things get even more stupid due to France's attempt to take on Spanish America.
Most of the war consisted, early on, of French armies destroying massive peasant rebellions and then suddenly -6 Stability in just one year (taking it down to -3 from +3), leading to several civil wars resulting in the formation of the USA, Haiti, Cherokee, Venezuela, and Mexico. Things get bad enough that nationalist rebellions start popping up in core French territory and then Austria gets in on the act.
Despite all of this, France is clearly still very much a power player, is starting to recover, and still has the largest manpower pool in the world bar none. France has supplied fighting armies and capable fleets on all six continents and has defeated every other major power at least once, including Scotland-formed Great Britain, Spain, Portugal, the Ottoman Empire, Persia, and Austria. The end of the massively long war saw an Austrian-French War that, despite massive rebellions across French colonies and the core itself, was still able to fight Austria to a stalemate (overall defeat, but Paris has never been occupied).
The only country that somehow fended off the full might of France (or near enough the full might) was the Xi-Japan Alliance. That war was a complete stalemate despite the French having a naval base in Taiwan.
Overall, the Thirty-Years War was a massive pain, but not a death kneel of the French Empire. There are still a slew of problems, not the least of which is the brewing rebellion in recently conquered Sulawesi, Catalonia and Castilian patriots in Iberia, and colonial agitation in the colonies. However, compared to Russia's catastrophic collapse to the east, the French Civil Wars were mild.
Meanwhile, France's traditional enemies of Great Britain, Spain, and Austria are all dealing with their own problems. The French Civil Wars saw the return of British Acadia to British North America, but the country is still sore about complete French occupation of the island. The Spanish government has, for the history of this game, long relocated to Spanish North America given that that blue strip in Iberia isn't a "recent" thing (this is the 1770s) but has been a problem for nearly a century. Austria is too busy trying to unify Germany, and because of its efforts, the HRE title belongs solely to Austria.
The French economy is easily the most powerful in the world and is perfectly capable of sustaining the massive armies France can put in the field.
(And for the record, the only New World country that has done fairly well in the Americas are the Aztecs).
Just a short thing on them. The Aztecs have only been recently invaded by the Portuguese, whose colonial territories in the New World are largely in Colombia, Central America, the Caribbean, and the American West (including Texas). Portugal invaded a country that isn't an Animist country with a backwards tech group, but a westernized country and the only one with the Reformed religion.
The Aztecs are still pretty behind technologically though, and a good part of the reason of Portugal's invasion is due to Reformed Zealots plaguing the territories of Portuguese North America.
The Iroquois are broken. They once consisted of both their own territory and the Huron but the French quickly broke them in a war and despite occupying all their former territory in the last war got nothing for their trouble other than the new US government taking even more land, leaving the Iroquois to just their capital and the Huron to escape American wrath. The Creek are in the same boat, having been broken by the French into three disjointed territories in a previous war and the most recent war leading to the Cherokee escaping from the Creek country which is problematic because the Americans are quickly liberating Cherokee land from its former inhabitants.
The Incans were annexed by Spain as expected, but lasted a lot longer than OTL and Spain's hold has never really been "great". For the most part, I picture Spain, which also includes OTL Brazil, to probably have moved the seat of government to the area of the original colonized territories in South America, namely the northeast region of South America.
Also, Mexico formed. In Argentina.
I don't know why either so I'm just going to call them Argentina, even though it isn't really Argentina. For the most part, the Mexican Rebellion took two disjointed provinces. Chile also gained independence but there is now a rather large Spanish army in South America to deal with future rebellions. The army is far larger than the one in Iberia, signifying the growing shift in priorities.
To tie this all back to France, lets just say that France's wise is due to luck more than anything. In many wars, France brought in a few strategic allies that were able to peel off enough of Austria's forces to keep Austria from bringing everything to bear on France, despite Austria having an impressive network of allies too. No one really likes the French except the Papal States, Venice, Ireland, and maybe the Huron. The coalition against France until very recently has always been rather large and consisted of a major power or two, but never all of the needed major powers. Sometimes Spain isn't in. Sometimes Austria isn't. Sometimes that major Indian country that has blobbed hellishly isn't.
The United States is a mixed bag. Some support France, and because of the lack of another major naval power in the world besides maybe Great Britain, most Americans are probably of the mindset of using the French insofar as it leads to grabbing Portuguese, Swedish, and Norwegian North America (before turning on France eventually of course).
Will work on the map for the next few weeks, with the next country to be included being the Ottomans. The Ottomans have the second highest score in the game (a full 4000 points lower than France of course), and I don't know why. The Ottomans were doing ok for a while, beating the Byzzies and all that, but I guess the Ottomans bit off more than they could chew and of course, being on both Austrian and French bad sides at the same time and especially in the same war can't be great for your health.
Spoiler :
Yes, French borders are wonky. France was easily the undisputed master for well over a century until the beginning of the lynchpin war of the game, the Thirty-Years War (which was actually over thirty years but #YOLO). Namely, France and Portugal went in for a routine beatdown of Spain and along the way something snapped. Spain beat Portugal, and annexed most of Portugal, leading to France occupying the entire peninsula. The war stalemated with France having a solid war score of 40, but unable to get over that, and things get even more stupid due to France's attempt to take on Spanish America.
Most of the war consisted, early on, of French armies destroying massive peasant rebellions and then suddenly -6 Stability in just one year (taking it down to -3 from +3), leading to several civil wars resulting in the formation of the USA, Haiti, Cherokee, Venezuela, and Mexico. Things get bad enough that nationalist rebellions start popping up in core French territory and then Austria gets in on the act.
Despite all of this, France is clearly still very much a power player, is starting to recover, and still has the largest manpower pool in the world bar none. France has supplied fighting armies and capable fleets on all six continents and has defeated every other major power at least once, including Scotland-formed Great Britain, Spain, Portugal, the Ottoman Empire, Persia, and Austria. The end of the massively long war saw an Austrian-French War that, despite massive rebellions across French colonies and the core itself, was still able to fight Austria to a stalemate (overall defeat, but Paris has never been occupied).
The only country that somehow fended off the full might of France (or near enough the full might) was the Xi-Japan Alliance. That war was a complete stalemate despite the French having a naval base in Taiwan.
Overall, the Thirty-Years War was a massive pain, but not a death kneel of the French Empire. There are still a slew of problems, not the least of which is the brewing rebellion in recently conquered Sulawesi, Catalonia and Castilian patriots in Iberia, and colonial agitation in the colonies. However, compared to Russia's catastrophic collapse to the east, the French Civil Wars were mild.
Meanwhile, France's traditional enemies of Great Britain, Spain, and Austria are all dealing with their own problems. The French Civil Wars saw the return of British Acadia to British North America, but the country is still sore about complete French occupation of the island. The Spanish government has, for the history of this game, long relocated to Spanish North America given that that blue strip in Iberia isn't a "recent" thing (this is the 1770s) but has been a problem for nearly a century. Austria is too busy trying to unify Germany, and because of its efforts, the HRE title belongs solely to Austria.
The French economy is easily the most powerful in the world and is perfectly capable of sustaining the massive armies France can put in the field.
(And for the record, the only New World country that has done fairly well in the Americas are the Aztecs).
Just a short thing on them. The Aztecs have only been recently invaded by the Portuguese, whose colonial territories in the New World are largely in Colombia, Central America, the Caribbean, and the American West (including Texas). Portugal invaded a country that isn't an Animist country with a backwards tech group, but a westernized country and the only one with the Reformed religion.
The Aztecs are still pretty behind technologically though, and a good part of the reason of Portugal's invasion is due to Reformed Zealots plaguing the territories of Portuguese North America.
The Iroquois are broken. They once consisted of both their own territory and the Huron but the French quickly broke them in a war and despite occupying all their former territory in the last war got nothing for their trouble other than the new US government taking even more land, leaving the Iroquois to just their capital and the Huron to escape American wrath. The Creek are in the same boat, having been broken by the French into three disjointed territories in a previous war and the most recent war leading to the Cherokee escaping from the Creek country which is problematic because the Americans are quickly liberating Cherokee land from its former inhabitants.
The Incans were annexed by Spain as expected, but lasted a lot longer than OTL and Spain's hold has never really been "great". For the most part, I picture Spain, which also includes OTL Brazil, to probably have moved the seat of government to the area of the original colonized territories in South America, namely the northeast region of South America.
Also, Mexico formed. In Argentina.
I don't know why either so I'm just going to call them Argentina, even though it isn't really Argentina. For the most part, the Mexican Rebellion took two disjointed provinces. Chile also gained independence but there is now a rather large Spanish army in South America to deal with future rebellions. The army is far larger than the one in Iberia, signifying the growing shift in priorities.
To tie this all back to France, lets just say that France's wise is due to luck more than anything. In many wars, France brought in a few strategic allies that were able to peel off enough of Austria's forces to keep Austria from bringing everything to bear on France, despite Austria having an impressive network of allies too. No one really likes the French except the Papal States, Venice, Ireland, and maybe the Huron. The coalition against France until very recently has always been rather large and consisted of a major power or two, but never all of the needed major powers. Sometimes Spain isn't in. Sometimes Austria isn't. Sometimes that major Indian country that has blobbed hellishly isn't.
The United States is a mixed bag. Some support France, and because of the lack of another major naval power in the world besides maybe Great Britain, most Americans are probably of the mindset of using the French insofar as it leads to grabbing Portuguese, Swedish, and Norwegian North America (before turning on France eventually of course).
Will work on the map for the next few weeks, with the next country to be included being the Ottomans. The Ottomans have the second highest score in the game (a full 4000 points lower than France of course), and I don't know why. The Ottomans were doing ok for a while, beating the Byzzies and all that, but I guess the Ottomans bit off more than they could chew and of course, being on both Austrian and French bad sides at the same time and especially in the same war can't be great for your health.
mechaerik
Tuturuu!
oh god those borders why
Why not clean them up?
Why not clean them up?
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Don't talk about ugly borders until you see Russia.
I'm cleaning up REALLY bad parts of the border, such as the random Venezuelan territory in the middle of North America.
Also, French Iberia is pretty much French at this point. The only time there are rebellions is during war, and only in territories recently occupied, not the French territories in Iberia.
Terran Empress
Hornet
that would be awesome, I was thinking it would be fun to make an actual IOT video game, we could have every one of us IOTer's be a different AI personality, of course there would also be multiplayer.
NedimNapoleon
Weird Little Human
Terran Empress
Hornet
Or perhaps better yet, there should be different songs for each of the IOTers
Here is mine:
Link to video.
NedimNapoleon
Weird Little Human
I've been contacted by the falcon of wisdom...he brings news from Saddam himself, he decrees this should be the song of all games.
Link to video.
Link to video.
Ailedhoo
wonderer
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2012
- Messages
- 7,811
Off topic but in the Argentina thread on the talks of who IOTers will get what music I think that tune will be your theme!
That or the original...
Link to video.
The choice is yours NN!
NedimNapoleon
Weird Little Human
I thought the original was removed! Where did you find it!
Ailedhoo
wonderer
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2012
- Messages
- 7,811
It must have got uploaded again.
I found it when viewing the video you link on its own youtube page; then I noticed in the suggested music...
JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
It could be awesome. It would be really close to Paradox games, I presume.
