Iowa Straw Poll Results: Bachmann Wins, Paul does suprisingly well

Personally, I think a Romney/Huntsman ticket would be the best thing to happen to the Republican Party.

Best as in good for the Republicans, or best as in good for the Democrats? :p

I'll assume the former, because the latter would involve... I dunno, a Palin/Bachmann ticket?

You have fairly rich parents if $1500 is 1% of their yearly income.

Well, since my father's a private contractor the number varies(mother on the other hand has a salary since she's a service manager at a local Wal-Mart). He can make anywhere from 100-200K per year depending on how good the market is doing, and that may increase once he gets this patent thingy he's recently gotten actually working.

He's one of the company's top contractors, so I suppose that means something.

But yes, it's easy to see the impact of a tax raise. But, 1% is pretty much negligible. For us that's, what, cutting back on restaurants and maybe the week or two of annual vacation we have?

Of course, life is one big zero-sum game. We are fortunate financially, but we pay for it in the fact father is rarely ever home.

Then again, 1% may be big to him. He says once all taxes are factored in, sales, property, income, etc. he pretty much gives half his paycheck away. The joys of being at the top of the tax hill... too rich to qualify for low rates/benefits, too poor to get those extremely low effective rates the true wealthy possess.
 
I believe our politics could possibly be decentralised because of how divorced party and government are here, due to the separation of executive and legislative functions. If the executive and legislature are tied to eachother, it becomes very easy to tell who the leaders are. But when you have three separate, independent yet interdependent chambers of power, leadership can often be divided.

Which I am not sure is a good thing in a modern democracy.

Oh yes, this is why I always found European critiques of the electoral college silly, considering that at the end of the day, the functional leader of nations on both sides of the pond is indirectly elected.

Well, I just think it's redundant, but it's really not that of an issue.

You're confusing that with the Putin gambit in Russia :lol:

Guilty :D No, really, in most countries whose political systems I've studied, the limits only prevent too many consecutive terms in office, so I assumed it was the same in the US. Just proves how dangerous such assumptions are.

Winner has already pointed some things out, but if you really want to know how most presidents of European states work, think of the Queen without having their faces on stamps and (almost) without the extra wasted taxpayer money.

Our president

a) has his face on stamps
b) lives in the Prague Castle, the traditional seat of kings
c) has his own coat of arms, fanfare, and seal
d) has a ceremonial castle guard at his disposal
(e) is an idiot)

It's so close to a monarchy that some foreign visitors think he's a king. He certainly likes to act as if he was :rolleyes:

That's not technically true. The parties do have set leaders, but they serve a more behind the scenes role, organizing campaigns and such (national committees) or actually legislating (House/Senate majority/minority leaders). The most senior guy usually becomes the de facto spokesman. For the party occupying the White House, it's the President; for the other party, it's the leader of whatever chamber they happen to control (currently the Speaker of the House). It's a little distributed, but right now, Obama is Mr. Democrat, and Boehner is Mr. Republican.

The chaos comes in for the challenging party come election time, as they have a bunch of voices competing to be the presidential nominee, who will then by virtue of the hierarchy leap-frog the legislative leaders and become the new party spokesman.

What I mean is that American political parties aren't really parties if we compare them with the European concept of parties. They're more like a common ideological platform, a coalition of like-minded groups. In Europe, parties usually have clear, long-standing political programmes and are ideologically homogeneous (there are of course internal debates and struggles, but on much smaller scale). Usually they are also very centralized - there is a chairman who is in most cases also the leading candidate for premiership, and he has a great deal of control over the party's policy. Members of Parliament elected for a party are expected to obey the will of the party's leadership. A backbencher revolt has the potential to bring a government down quickly because ruling cabinets in parliamentary systems rest on a parliamentary majority. When they lose it, they usually fall, unless they strike some sort of a deal with the opposition.

To us, the American system really looks pretty chaotic. First, the MPs (congressmen/women + senators) are much less loyal to the leader of their party, or their party in general. Second, since the executive branch doesn't rely on a parliamentary majority, it common that the president rules even though the Congress is dominated by his opponents. Third, political programmes in America are very candidate-centric; for example, I haven't noticed any "Republican political programme", only the programmes of prominent Republicans. Fourth, the elections are held too often.

It's a small wonder you've ever managed to have a stable government :D

Exactly. It's not as simple as Winner made it out to be over here as well - for example, the Social Democrats party (which is likely to replace the current government according to current polls) doesn't know whom to make their candidate for chancellorship yet - and their chairman isn't very likely to become it. They're even thinking about holding US-style primaries.

I only explained how it usually works. In my opinion, the concept of split leadership (when the premier/chancellor/prime minister isn't the leader of his party) is an unstable one. The head of the government is then weaker than the leader of his party, which is a potential source of instability and confusion. In this country, this situation has only occurred when the ruling party elected a new chairman while the old one was still the premier - they chose to leave him in office in order to avoid the whole process of cabinet reshuffle followed by a constitutionally required vote of confidence in the parliament. Each time it was clear the premier lost a great deal of credibility and power.

Isn't the reason why SDP wants someone else than the party chairman for chancellorship the fact that he isn't very... charismatic?
 
Which I am not sure is a good thing in a modern democracy.

America just has a different set of values.

We intentionally have our system inefficient - fear of government has been virulent in American politics for much of its history, even into the modern day.

The Bill of Rights was added as a restraint on the Federal government, for instance; this is why for many years the states were actively trampling on it, as at first it didn't apply to the states.

So, our system was built so as to keep the government from being ruled by any one entity. It sows inefficiency, but it also prevents monopolisation of power. The four players of government each have their own specific set of powers, and furthermore, each one serves their own constituency(at least under the original model). No single group is supposed to hold all the cards in America.

The irony is the conservatives support this ideal, yet tend to be the first against PR, which would assist in keeping a monopoly on power from existing.
 
America just has a different set of values.

We intentionally have our system inefficient - fear of government has been virulent in American politics for much of its history, even into the modern day.

Which again I am not sure is a good thing in a modern democracy ;) Contrary to what libertarians believe in, the role of the government is growing as the society is becoming more and more complex. If this is the case, then the government needs to be effective, not distracted by ongoing internal struggles and petty bickering (see the EU-level of European politics for a cautionary tale).

So, our system was built so as to keep the government from being ruled by any one entity. It sows inefficiency, but it also prevents monopolisation of power. The four players of government each have their own specific set of powers, and furthermore, each one serves their own constituency(at least under the original model). No single group is supposed to hold all the cards in America.

Well, many countries that have modelled their political system after the US one eventually went down the road to dictatorship. In theory, it's nice that power is decentralized to such an extent and that various branches of governments can keep each other "in check". However, in other countries, it sometimes led to presidents losing patience with a permanently deadlocked political system, which led them to using the army to break the deadlock (quite literally, in many cases). Or the army got fed up with both the president and the legislature, and seized power (sometimes with full public support).

I am not saying this will happen in the US, I am just pointing out the flaws in the system.
 
Our president

a) has his face on stamps
b) lives in the Prague Castle, the traditional seat of kings
c) has his own coat of arms, fanfare, and seal
d) has a ceremonial castle guard at his disposal
(e) is an idiot)

It's so close to a monarchy that some foreign visitors think he's a king. He certainly likes to act as if he was :rolleyes:

I first heard of Vaclav Klaus when he came to Canberra, showed up at our Parliament unannounced, and was denied entry for refusing to go through security checks at the gate.
 
I kinda hate to say it, but I'd far sooner vote Bachmann than Romney.
No surprise you'd favour a loony over a moderate.

Seriously. If this is going to end up: Obama vs Romney, the fringe loonies already lost, and the more sensible moderate America, also know as the Really Real, Sane, Pleasant Smelling Americans, will have won that one.

It'll still be crap, but at least it won't be Crap.
 
No surprise you'd favour a loony over a moderate.

Seriously. If this is going to end up: Obama vs Romney, the fringe loonies already lost, and the more sensible moderate America, also know as the Really Real, Sane, Pleasant Smelling Americans, will have won that one.

It'll still be crap, but at least it won't be Crap.

... or CRAP (Bachmann/Palin).

Seriously, what's with Palin suddenly showing up everywhere in a bus which takes the expression 'attention whore' to an all new level? She's like a stalker. It's creepy...

Well, Dom3000 might be excused by his young age. I didn't know about politics when I was 16-18. When Dom3000 gets to pay his own rent, utilities, medical bills, car loan, becomes a parent, starts caring about availabilty and quality of social services, medical treatment, education etc. things might change. :)
 
I first heard of Vaclav Klaus when he came to Canberra, showed up at our Parliament unannounced, and was denied entry for refusing to go through security checks at the gate.

Wait, you haven't seen the video of him stealing a pen in front of TV cameras?!

His personal mission seems to be to ruin the tatters of our reputation abroad, and he's been doing very well so far.
 
The irony is the conservatives support this ideal, yet tend to be the first against PR, which would assist in keeping a monopoly on power from existing.

No surprise you'd favour a loony over a moderate.

Seriously. If this is going to end up: Obama vs Romney, the fringe loonies, Libertarians and Honest people already lost, and the more sensible moderate America, also know as the Really Real, Sane, Pleasant Smelling Americans, will have won that one.

It'll still be crap, but at least it won't be Crap.

I bolded my changes;) Romney is a two-faced liar, period.

Well, Dom3000 might be excused by his young age. I didn't know about politics when I was 16-18. When Dom3000 gets to pay his own rent, utilities, medical bills, car loan, becomes a parent, starts caring about availabilty and quality of social services, medical treatment, education etc. things might change.

Honestly, I'm more worried about liberals stopping the quality of social services... By giving out as much as we are in social security, we're losing it.
 
:lol::lol::lol:

That smirk on his face when he think he's gotten away with it... priceless

But to keep it real. Your man stole a pen. Bush jr stole the future prosperity of a generation of his contrymen.

He's been amusing the nation since 2003 ;) Can your royals do that? :lol:

Spoiler :
(Well, actually the pen was a gift, but he "stole" it before it was handed over to him. That smirk is legendary indeed.)
 
I like how you put that: Libertarians and honest people.

It shows me that you know these are two different groups of people. :)

edit. I wonder, would you call Romney less of, just as big or a bigger two faced liar than lets say .... Glenn Beck?
 
I like how you put that: Libertarians and honest people.

It shows me that you know these are two different groups of people. :)

Well, you can be a Libertarian without being honest, and you can be honest without being a Libertarian. You can be both, or you can even be neither of them.

I consider myself to be both.

However, an honest person wouldn't know the reality of Romney's flip-flopping and still support them. I have a feeling some people are in denial of the reality of what Romney did.
 
Well, Dom3000 might be excused by his young age. I didn't know about politics when I was 16-18. When Dom3000 gets to pay his own rent, utilities, medical bills, car loan, becomes a parent, starts caring about availabilty and quality of social services, medical treatment, education etc. things might change. :)

Kind of a weak argument there. Having to pay rent, utilities, medical bills, etc. makes you realize how much of a burden the government really is on a working stiff.

When I had my first full time job, taxes were my biggest monthly expense, and I had to get a critical illness policy because I couldn't afford full-fledged health insurance. Meanwhile a fat chunk was coming out of my paycheck that I couldn't control in any way, shape or form, so I had to tighten my belt in other ways. Not having cable, not having a landline, etc.
 
However, an honest person wouldn't know the reality of Romney's flip-flopping and still support them. I have a feeling some people are in denial of the reality of what Romney did.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. The flip-flopping makes him look unprincipled and untrustworthy, but you could be willing to look past that if you think he's still better than the others. If you don't really care about social issues anyway, and you think his record shows he's a competent leader, you might consider him the best candidate.

I want Gary Johnson to win but the lamestream media and the party establishment won't allow him to have a platform.
 
I wouldn't necessarily say that. The flip-flopping makes him look unprincipled and untrustworthy, but you could be willing to look past that if you think he's still better than the others.

Well, I did say "Support" and not so much simply voting for as a lesser of two evils.

I want Gary Johnson to win but the lamestream media and the party establishment won't allow him to have a platform.

So, just wondering, but what do you think of Ron Paul? Decent second choice?

I don't like Johnson so much since he's pro-choice, but he's got the rest of the stuff right so I'd easily vote him in over Obama.
 
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