Iranian ships provoke American Warships

[Patroklos]

1. If a nation launches ICBMs, there's only one rational conclusion -- they're attacking another country with ICBMs. Driving boats around ships is something else entirely; I think it's hyperbole to say that they could "only be assumed [to be] suicide boats".

No, the only reason to do so is to attack or make someone think you are attacking which is, defacto, attacking. Care to think of another. I am an OOD qyualed naval officer who has transited the SOH a few times myself, and I can't.

Screwing around eh? I will remember that the next time I, just for fun;

1.) Run at a police officer with my gun out shouiting "you will be dead in a minute!"

2.) Rush an army checkpoint with portions of PVC pipe straped to my body shought "You are going to die!"

3.) Flash a gun at the bank teller and say "you are about to be robbed!"

Hell, i didn't actualy sexually harass you when I grabbed your breast baby, because I TOTALLY didn't mean it!

Actions count at that point, not you intentions. Especially when your actions can not be interpreted as anything else but an attack.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

That's almost thirty years ago. Why don't you talk about the Holocaust to "prove" how horrible the German government is today? I'm talking about the current issues, like this.

Well then how about the support for various violent factions in several nations in that region since we are talking about current events?

 

[I'm Cleo!]

Additionally, the mob that attacked our embassy weren't Iranian government actors, were they?

Cleo

 

[Patroklos]

Seems odd that it was filmed, why would that have been? Not a rhetorical question, just wondering

DDGs have an optical scope on the mast that can see in IR at night, and zoom in and out to identify contacts (and record). It is also very helpful for naval gun fire spoting.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Additionally, the mob that attacked our embassy weren't Iranian government actors, were they?

Cleo

Funny how one of them is now the President of Iran. Amazing how that works.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

Patroklos,

You keep using this word, "defacto". I do not think it means what you think it means.

You don't seem to grasp the distinction I'm making between the reasonable beliefs of the commander, and the after-the-fact classification of the Iranians' actions. Whether something is true is different from whether someone reasonably believes it to be true. In each of the hypotheticals you listed there, I think the person you provoked would be justified to retaliate (as I think the U.S. commanders in the Strait may very well have been justified to fire on the Iranian boats). But in each of the situations you listed there, I wouldn't classify your actions as "attacks".

Cleo

 

[Patroklos]

Wow, a personel camera, not suprising though every camera these days can take 20 plus minutes of video. I wouldn't be suprosed if he was ordered to video tape it.

... and they should have been destoyed. There is no question that they were purposely feigning attacks. At that range I don't even think it would have been possible to stop them if the continued even if we had oppened fire. There is no excuse.

You don't seem to grasp the distinction I'm making between the reasonable beliefs of the commander, and the after-the-fact classification of the Iranians' actions.

I do, it is simply irrelevant. And semantics really, we both come to the same conclusion.

I wouldn't classify your actions as "attacks".

Are all the feignts jabs in a boxing match not part of the fight. If your intent is to make me think you are attacking me, you are attacking me.

 

[cubsfan6506]

They have been responsible, knowingly and indirectly as well as some cases directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Americans. Are you dense? They are killing your fellow Americans.

That does not make them the bad guys?!?!?!?!?!

What kind of dicked up, ******** glue sniffing logic is that? I'm tempted to ask what is wrong with you but I doubt you even know. That has to be without a doubt the most ******** thing I have read on CFC ever. Yes, forget Zulu, George or that braindead 420 kid. You my friend are simply not in reality.

Ironicly, chances are you will take offense to my words. Yet you don't take offense to the killing of your fellow citizens. Amazing.

:
Lets break this one won.

They have been responsible, knowingly and indirectly as well as some cases directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Americans.

I believe as stated by a previous conservative indirect doesn't count nananana.

In seriousness though we are indirectly linked to much more of their citizens and soldiers deaths. Happen to remember the Iran-Iraq war. Which side did we support. Which side was the aggresor. How many casulties were killed by american made weapons and american made machinery. Lots more then hundreds.

Are you dense?

No.

What kind of dicked up, ******** glue sniffing logic is that? I'm tempted to ask what is wrong with you but I doubt you even know.

I believe that is just a little bit politically in correct.

You my friend are simply not in reality.

No I'm thinking of those totally existant Iraqi WMDs, Iranian nukes, and of the eventual terrorist take over of Pakistan by the .02 percent of the population that believes in the radical islamic agenda.

Ironicly, chances are you will take offense to my words.

How could any one not take offense to words as articulate and personal as, dicked up ********, glue sniffing logic.

Yet you don't take offense to the killing of your fellow citizens. Amazing

I take offense to the killing of all men equally. So therefor I am just as ashamed of America as I am of Iran. The only difference is Iran doesn't lie to start wars.

 

[LesCanadiens]

Well then how about the support for various violent factions in several nations in that region since we are talking about current events?

All I ask is evidence, and no one ever provides any.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

Patroklos,

Well, it's a pretty big distinction if one wanted to justify an attack on Iran. As some in our government have been reported to want. "They attacked us first" carries a lot of weight. Given the stakes, I think it's important to make that distinction.

Cleo

 

[Patroklos]

Well, it's a pretty big distinction if one wanted to justify an attack on Iran. As some in our government have been reported to want. "They attacked us first" carries a lot of weight. Given the stakes, I think it's important to make that distinction.

People keep saying this, but provide no evidence. There are some IF this happens THEN statments. That is not the same as wanting to attack Iran. If we wanted to that bad, the Iranian Navy would be buring in its entirety right now. And no, even that would not kick off a larger war.

 

[cubsfan6506]

People keep saying this, but provide no evidence. There are some IF this happens THEN statments. That is not the same as wanting to attack Iran. If we wanted to that bad, the Iranian Navy would be buring in its entirety right now. And no, even that would not kick off a larger war.

You may recall a period in our history when a bigger country with a much bigger navy attacked our navy and blockaded our coast. People said it wouldn't leed to a larger war in their country. But despite being much weaker we fought back and we won.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

In seriousness though we are indirectly linked to much more of their citizens and soldiers deaths.

Are we supplying weapontry, funding and training to the PPK? no we are not. Are we shipping EFP's to them? You are wrong, pure and simple. Just cause it's your personal view does not make it correct nor even sane.

How many casulties were killed by american made weapons and american made machinery. Lots more then hundreds.

Considering just a few short years before the conflict broke out they took over the embassy and assisted in the killing of hundreds of US Servicemembers in Beruit you are again wrong. Your attempt to play the " well they did this game " shows just how little you know about Iran or it's intentions.

I believe that is just a little bit politically in correct.

But killing Americans is just fine? Yeah great logic ya got there. Really.

No I'm thinking of those totally existant Iraqi WMDs, Iranian nukes, and of the eventual terrorist take over of Pakistan by the .02 percent of the population that believes in the radical islamic agenda.

You mean the WMD's that he used on his own people openly and publicly? Oh the Nukes Iran is pretty much openly devlopeing... oh thats right, only .02 of the population in Pakistan is extremeist. Let's do the math.

161,488,000 is the population of Pakistan, .02% of that = 32 297.6

hmmmmmm Thats only two full divisions and more people than we have in afganistan. Smart bet is more along the lines of 1-5% or so wich leaves of with a hell of a lot more. Considering what happened to there own prime minister recently.

How could any one not take offense to words as articulate and personal as, dicked up ********, glue sniffing logic.

Considering you turn a blind eye to there actions so it fits your worldview? Yeah that is dicked up glue sniffing logic. Keep making excuses for them though, keep rationalizeing there actions and turning a blind eye. Thats really a great plan ya got there.

I take offense to the killing of all men equally. So therefor I am just as ashamed of America as I am of Iran. The only difference is Iran doesn't lie to start wars.

It just has others do it for them. I'm sure the thousands of dead from Israel, America and other nations are really happy you feel that way though. I'm sure the current Iranian government, who has openly called for the destruction of both, enjoys your support. Imho you are a coward and a traitor to your nation and your fellow americans who are dying from efp's, quassim rockets and rpg-7's in some serious numbers.

 

[Patroklos]

You may recall a period in our history when a bigger country with a much bigger navy attacked our navy and blockaded our coast. People said it wouldn't leed to a larger war in their country. But despite being much weaker we fought back and we won.

There is no war in our history that remotely resembles that.

 

[Nobody]

It could be a false flag operation, i mean how hard is it for some American troops too dress up like irani's and get inflatable boats and pretend to attack other American boats. Too build support at home for possible war against Iran.

Don't say america would never do it cause they were close to doing it to Cuba back in the day, and they did do it to spain even longer ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Im probably wrong but just throwing it out there.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

It could be a false flag operation, i mean how hard is it for some American troops too dress up like irani's and get inflatable boats and pretend to attack other American boats. Too build support at home for possible war against Iran.

Don't say america would never do it cause they were close to doing it to Cuba back in the day, and they did do it to spain even longer ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Im probably wrong but just throwing it out there.

Or how hard is it for the Iranians to do this, considering it's part of there MO?

 

[Patroklos]

It could be a false flag operation, i mean how hard is it for some American troops too dress up like irani's and get inflatable boats and pretend to attack other American boats. Too build support at home for possible war against Iran.

Good evening truther

Don't say america would never do it cause they were close to doing it to Cuba back in the day, and they did do it to spain even longer ago.

The Maine was not a false flag. It is entirely known why it blew up and there was zero subterfuge as to why it was thought to be a mine. Find one reputable source that says it was staged.

Operations Northwoods

Back on your meds you...

 

[cubsfan6506]

Yes but it was used as an excuse for war.

 

[MobBoss]

That's almost thirty years ago. Why don't you talk about the Holocaust to "prove" how horrible the German government is today? I'm talking about the current issues, like this.

Errr. Dude...the government in Iran that did that is the same government there today. Your 'german analogy' fails right off the bat.

Also, there is a huge difference in 'knocking on the door' and asking the Iranians to come out to the storming of the US embassy.

Where US/Iranian relations are concerned what happened almost thirty years ago is just as pertinant as what is happening today.

 

[cubsfan6506]

Are we supplying weapontry, funding and training to the PPK? no we are not. Are we shipping EFP's to them? You are wrong, pure and simple. Just cause it's your personal view does not make it correct nor even sane.

No but we certainly supplied Iraq when they attacked Iran that was actually the time I was reffering to. Their is also a major difference in the funding of Iraqi insurgents and funding Saddam Huessain when he attacked Iran. Wait for this bombshell we attacked Iraq. Why because they were against our interests. Why is Iran funding Iraqi insurgents, because they are for Iranian world interests. I find it odd how you so readily condemn Iran for taking incredibly similar actions to ours.

You mean the WMD's that he used on his own people openly and publicly? Oh the Nukes Iran is pretty much openly devlopeing... oh thats right, only .02 of the population in Pakistan is extremeist. Let's do the math.

Yes I mean the one that he had prior to the U.S invasion. They obviousl were no longer there when we got they're. He no longer had any or were making more. Any one that was intelligence agency could of told you that. Yes it was open and developing until guess what wrong again. That staff is from president Musharaff when he was on sixty minutes.

hmmmmmm Thats only two full divisions and more people than we have in afganistan. Considering what happened to there own prime minister recently.

Americans can't deal with insurgents.

Smart bet is more along the lines of 1-5% or so wich leaves of with a hell of a lot more.

Considering what happened to there own prime minister recently

Assuming that you are talking about former prime minister Benazir Bhutto who was running for the position after an eight year self imposed exile. Your ignorance is amusing though.

Considering you turn a blind eye to there actions so it fits your worldview? Yeah that is dicked up glue sniffing logic. Keep making excuses for them though, keep rationalizeing there actions and turning a blind eye. Thats really a great plan ya got there.

Really I do. I am not pro Iranian nothing would make me happier then a Iranian revolution. This is not going to happen though. I am not trying to say that Iran is good. I am simply trying to say that america is just as guilty.

It just has others do it for them. I'm sure the thousands of dead from Israel, America and other nations are really happy you feel that way though. I'm sure the current Iranian government, who has openly called for the destruction of both, enjoys your support.

Yes we had others attack Iran. We had Iraq attack Iran. America has constantly trreat Iran treat it as an inferior nation. Before when the Shah was desposed we made sure are pet was in their. In fact in the nineteen-seventies Iran was deemed okay for nukes. We were helping Iran develop nukes. So if Iran is developing nukes. (It looks like they aren't.) You can certainly make a guess as to where most of the technology came from. I don't like the Iranian government they are simply not the bad guys. The United States is equally guilty of pursuing hegemony if not more. (At least untile Iran invade Mexico and Canada.

Imho you are a coward and a traitor to your nation and your fellow americans who are dying from efp's, quassim rockets and rpg-7's in some serious numbers.

Oh no I'm a traitor to arbitrary lines to where I happened to be born. Sorry I can't be more patriotic. How couldn't I support a nation that is ruthlessy lieing about another nation.

Edit: I am most likely wrong on that .02%. I watched the interview in its entirety and di not see it in their. But even if your high end 5% is true not all of them could fight.