Iraqi elections

[eyrei]

As far as I can tell, things are going pretty smoothly, at least for Iraq. Apparently a lot of Sunni's are going to the polls, which is a very good sign for the insurgency starting to die down a bit. I think the Kurds may be disappointed in their representation now that the Sunni's are voting, but hopefully not so much that they start trying to become independent.

My only real concern is that the major Shiite Islamic party will win a large majority, and start to turn Iraq into a fundamentalist state. I don't think there are sufficient protections for the rights of woman in their constitution to stand up to such a government. I would hate to have a 'free' Iraq being constantly berated by the West because of a poor human rights record.

I found this article pretty interesting on the subject.

Anyway, I wish the Iraqis the best in setting up their government, and hope nothing comes along to screw it up...

 

[GenMarshall]

The sooner they vote, the sooner we can pull our troops out of this unjust war.

 

[Rambuchan]

That's a great article. Really brings home the deep motivations to go out and vote and also all the fears that stand in their way. Yet they do it. I really admire those that risked their lives to shape their country's future today. And they really need to look ahead now. It's a genuine state of fear still. The water poisoning rumours in the article reminded me of the bomb scare on the bridge in Baghdad, in which the strugging and pushing of the crowd alone killed scores. That was one of the most tragic news reports in ages.

I don't know when results start coming in, but by all accounts the Sunnis have voted in numbers. They and their leaders realised they were on a losing ticket with their old strategy. Now they have to get involved and the crediible long standing players will have to show themselves to be without dirty, militant links. It's all about how many seats they get in the Parliament. If there are not many, there is no telling what would happen. I understand this government will stand for four years. That's a long time of under-representation if you're a Sunni who still thinks Saddam should be around or that the Shias are a front for Western power. Afaik the Kurds are laughing all the way to the bank up in the north and rightly so IMO.

I think women will fair quite well in Iraq. There are plenty of examples of powerful women arising all over the Middle East (not so much in mainstream politics yet) and Iraq seems to be meeting that mild trend. You can only keep pushing gently at these things. Arab culture will not budge quickly on such things.

As for Iraq becoming a fundamentalist state, well there is every chance of this of course. Iran's hardliners have done well out of the democratic processes there. And Iraqi politics is more of that region's persuasion than say Egypt's. But Iraq depends on the West too much to turn hardline on it so quickly.

 

[CartesianFart]

By Alister Bull
Thu Dec 15, 2:58 PM ET



KIRKUK (Reuters) - An Iraqi official in the disputed city of Kirkuk accused Kurds of cheating in Thursday's election, saying thousands had been bussed in to swell the Kurdish vote.

Kurds denied the charge.

Hassan Toran, a Turkmen member of the Kirkuk Provincial Council, said Turkmen, Arab Sunni and Shi'ite officials would lodge an official written complaint with Iraq's Electoral Commission and demand a new vote under U.N. supervision.

"A lot of violations took place. Many (non-Kurdish) voters did not find their names on lists because they were removed," Toran told Reuters.

"Buses carried thousands of Kurds from Sulaimaniya and Arbil to vote. Roads between provinces were supposed to be closed."

A Kurdish official in Kikruk, Jalal Jawhar, said any accusations of Kurdish violations were baseless.

"We did not cheat. Not one Kurd voted in Kirkuk without having his name registered," he said.

The future of Kirkuk, at the heart of the northern oil industry, is one of the most emotionally charged issues in Iraq. Kurds, Arabs and Turkmen all claim historical rights to the ancient city 250 km (155 miles) north of Baghdad.

A referendum is planned to decide the identity of Kirkuk.

Former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein forcibly expelled thousands of Kurds and Turkmen from Kirkuk and replaced them with Arabs from elsewhere in Iraq under an Arabisation policy.

Jawhar said some of the Kurds who voted in Kirkuk on Thursday had been removed by Saddam and had a right to vote in their hometown under the Iraqi constitution.

"Some still live in Arbil and Sulaimaniya but they are registered to vote in Kirkuk," he said.

FIERCE KURDISH NATIONALISM

Electoral commission officials in Kirkuk said they had to turn back some would-be Kurdish voters but it was not clear whether this was related to a failure to register or violations.

Ferman Abdullah, a supervisor at a polling station set up in a local high school in the town of Altun Kupri, northwest of Kirkuk, said 200 Kurds had been turned away by mid-morning.

Some 1,200 people had voted there, about 800 of whom he thought were Kurds, said Abdullah.

"The only problem we have right now is we don't have some (registered) names on the list," he said.

Kurdish patriotism was still running high.

Architectural engineer Ali Nori said the Kurds were the historic owners of Kirkuk, highlighting how difficult it could be to resolve the issue.

"From this election we want the return of Kirkuk to Kurdistan. Since the 1960s, Kurds have been dying to get Kirkuk back," he said.

Kurdish flags flew from buildings and cars, and children waved them outside a polling center. The Iraqi flag, viewed as a symbol of oppression under Saddam, was nowhere to be seen.

"Kirkuk now is for the people of Kurdistan," said Hussein Sadr, 74, standing next to young men in the traditional garb of the Kurdish peshmerga militia.

(Additional reporting by Mariam Karouny)

This is an interesting development.
The worst thing in Democracy is Fraud.I am not saying this is true,but i think this is a news story that is interesting as well.

 

[eyrei]

I'm sure there will be many allegations of fraud. What matters is how many are substantiated by unbiased observers...

 

[MobBoss]

The sooner they vote, the sooner we can pull our troops out of this unjust war.

What if they vote to ask us to stay?

 

[eyrei]

What if they vote to ask us to stay?

I seriously doubt that, beyond a couple military bases like we have in many other countries in the world. The best case scenario would be for them to tell us to leave, so we can do so honorably and sooner rather than years from now. One of the few things Iraqi leaders seemed to agree on at the meeting they had in Egypt (?) recently was that the presence of foreign troops is fueling some segments of the insurgency.

 

[CartesianFart]

If this suceeds,that means that the country is not too divided,we are still gonna have military post like we have after Germany,Japan,South Korea.etc etc.

We gotta keep our eyes on those eastern despot called Beijing

 

[MobBoss]

I seriously doubt that, beyond a couple military bases like we have in many other countries in the world. The best case scenario would be for them to tell us to leave, so we can do so honorably and sooner rather than years from now. One of the few things Iraqi leaders seemed to agree on at the meeting they had in Egypt (?) recently was that the presence of foreign troops is fueling some segments of the insurgency.

Actually I agree. I for one, would prefer that they actually ask us to leave, though I think that is somewhat unlikely as well. The elected leadership isnt quite as confident in their new military as they could be yet, and do so want to stay alive.

As for fueling the insurgency, I would say it can, but to a minor extent. Accidents happen no matter how careful you are...the best thing going for us is everytime an insurgent kills innocents, it just turns more of the regular populace against their movement. The rate of civilians informing on suspected insurgent activity has risen exponentially in the last six months, so I am hopeful.

 

[JohnRM]

As far as I can tell, things are going pretty smoothly, at least for Iraq. Apparently a lot of Sunni's are going to the polls, which is a very good sign for the insurgency starting to die down a bit. I think the Kurds may be disappointed in their representation now that the Sunni's are voting, but hopefully not so much that they start trying to become independent.

My only real concern is that the major Shiite Islamic party will win a large majority, and start to turn Iraq into a fundamentalist state. I don't think there are sufficient protections for the rights of woman in their constitution to stand up to such a government. I would hate to have a 'free' Iraq being constantly berated by the West because of a poor human rights record.

I found this article pretty interesting on the subject.

Anyway, I wish the Iraqis the best in setting up their government, and hope nothing comes along to screw it up...

If Iraq can manage not to massacre any particular ethnic group, invade or otherwise threaten any of their neighbors, or develop weapons of mass destruction, then I will not complain.