Is anyone else frustrated with the war map?

[7daysofwar]

I consider this a Bug. You move next to an enemy stack (or even Bears, on occasion!) and it immediately attacks, even though it is still nominally your turn. You are stuck in a battle as the defender, even though you were the one moving to contact - who did I put in charge of that stack, Generalissimo Pacifist Maximus?

I think you are right Boris, I even have a crazier example. I decided to siege an opponents city (it was the last few turns, I was bored so decided to do with only 2 pikemen) and then it basically turned into a defend your flag,there weren't even units nearby to attack me, just the city. And during the battle, they didn't even attack me even once, I won after three turns because they defended and I didn't attack them. It was very weird...

 

[Taefin]

I wouldn’t mind if battles had a little bit more overlap of players/AI turns. Perhaps you could take turns moving units, up to the number of your army cap, and then the AI did the same. Something needs to equalize attacking and defending! I wouldn’t even mind if turns were real time, provided the AI was a little slower and if interrupting moves worked more like in Victor army movements.

(Also why does changing orders mid move not work after release?! It was beautifully seamless in Victor to move 4 spaces, and on the way there see a curiosity and click to reroute there. Now it only works if you mash the right click long before reaching the decision point.)

 

[Haig]

The simultaneous turns are good for turn speeds, but otherwise I don't like how the AI can react first and be the first attacker just because they are faster than human.
I would like it more as normal turn-based.

I wonder what the current AI bonuses are for each difficulty levels? The one I can find from internet is from the Lucy beta build, but I wonder how it is on current version.
Like do they pay the normal upkeep for units etc.

 

[fortydayweekend]

At the risk of having an unpopular opinion, I don't mind the AI attacking while I'm positioning. It adds an extra layer of thinking, especially to city attacks. From an immersion point of view it makes sense, why wouldn't the defender be able to pick an ideal time to sortie (and be able to punish any mistakes made by the attacker).

If anything I'd rather there was the ability for the player to do the same, e.g. to be able to pause the AI move and make a counterattack.

 

[Taefin]

I maintain that the AI shouldn’t move until you either move a unit or click the “process previous turns movement” button. The latter should be the players mechanism to get one round of moves in, simultaneous with the AI’s preplanned moves, but before the AI gets to react. Otherwise, the AI is done moving by the time you click through era star pop ups and/or beta patch camera glitches. I also wouldn’t mind the AI taking 1-2 seconds between each of its moves after this.

 

[fortydayweekend]

I maintain that the AI shouldn’t move until you either move a unit or click the “process previous turns movement” button. The latter should be the players mechanism to get one round of moves in, simultaneous with the AI’s preplanned moves, but before the AI gets to react. Otherwise, the AI is done moving by the time you click through era star pop ups and/or beta patch camera glitches. I also wouldn’t mind the AI taking 1-2 seconds between each of its moves after this.

Personally I hate the idea of having to move quickly, I play turn based games for a reason Don't make me need to react quickly

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Personally I hate the idea of having to move quickly, I play turn based games for a reason Don't make me need to react quickly

In my late 70s with incipient arthritis in both hands, there's no Way In H**l I'm playing anything but Turn Based - anything else is just an exercise in Frustration, and that includes elements of Humankind, unfortunately.

 

[Taefin]

Seems me a natural place for a slider, anything from the current lighting settings to true turn based “wait until I’ve finished moving”.

 

[Victoria]

You move next to an enemy stack (or even Bears, on occasion!) and it immediately attacks,

This is bad but you get used to it and if you want to attack a stack, make a single move into its hex…. But when you prepare, declare war, and the enemy immediately attacks you across the map in your turn, that’s just crap. Wasted enough time on some concept game that is not in touch with what counts IMO. Tired of pissy battles that stretch the game like a piece of gum and designers that want me to play their game a certain way.
No surprise about the steam stats.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

In my late 70s with incipient arthritis in both hands, there's no Way In H**l I'm playing anything but Turn Based - anything else is just an exercise in Frustration, and that includes elements of Humankind, unfortunately.

Same, I actually get anxiety, I play games to relax, not to stress - Humankind's combat system actually stresses me out, usually because i overlook sometihng silly like not seeing that stack of average units coming to my unprotected cities because I got pulled into a war for refusing a demand I had no control over.

 

[Aristos]

Something needs to equalize attacking and defending!

Initiative.

They had it in EL, so its only a matter of time until they probably reintroduce it for HK. I guess they did not want to scare the people that came from the civ 6 "battlefields" away with such a concept. Or maybe they don't think it will work with a full freedom system like the one in HK (EL battles are not fully free to control).

I don't mind at all, it's just one more thing to think about before engaging (like trying to pre-empt possible enemy reinforcements hiding in the FOW but inside a potential battle area).

 

[Taefin]

Initiative.

They had it in EL, so its only a matter of time until they probably reintroduce it for HK. I guess they did not want to scare the people that came from the civ 6 "battlefields" away with such a concept. Or maybe they don't think it will work with a full freedom system like the one in HK (EL battles are not fully free to control).

I don't mind at all, it's just one more thing to think about before engaging (like trying to pre-empt possible enemy reinforcements hiding in the FOW but inside a potential battle area).

I could see a turn based initiative system working well where you have to move the unit whose turn it currently is, and passing/defending results a unit getting its next turn sooner. Give veteran units +1 initiative as well, and use it to balance some EU/cultures that are currently underwhelming. So a game turn of combat is 100 tics and units have initiative values between 25-50 that dictates how many tics between their moves. Randomize just enough to break ties and the faster units would all move first, or randomize more to make it less abusable.

It would help prevent a lot of melee+range shenanigans that require moving your entire army at once without any interference (though I’d probably give move-and-shoot ranged units a first turn initiative order boost which would still help get a first volley in and then support with faster melee units.

Or more experience units could have a narrower range (on the high end) for the randomization term, so that elite units are modeled as moving more effectively as one. Or I might change Rome’s culture bonus to removing this randomization to represent coordination.