awesome
Meme Lord
basically my point is that even if it's beta quality, it's not beta. we can agree to disagree, though. and thanks.
Is anyone else tempted to
- Thread starter fathertuck
- Start date
basically my point is that even if it's beta quality, it's not beta. we can agree to disagree, though. and thanks.
jtb1127
Deity
I hate steam
Not at all, because
1) Civ5 is plagued by basic design flaws, the resulting weaknesses haven't been fixed and may never be.
2) Even if they were, aggressive marketing and exploitation of a shoddy product soured the game for me.
3) I'm not paying a purchasing price for the privilege to use something 'for as long as Steam allows me to'.
1) Civ5 is plagued by basic design flaws, the resulting weaknesses haven't been fixed and may never be.
2) Even if they were, aggressive marketing and exploitation of a shoddy product soured the game for me.
3) I'm not paying a purchasing price for the privilege to use something 'for as long as Steam allows me to'.
Psyringe
Scout
That perfectly sums up my own feelings about the offer. Though I might buy a steam-less version from the bargain bin if they ever release one, but the current offer doesn't tempt me at all.
DragonKnight
Warlord
now, now... pre-ordering is what you do to tip your hat for the previous version. So if you loved civ4, pre-order 5. Since 5 sucks, no pre-order for 6. This seems more logical when you only paid like $10 for civ4...
But you get the idea... If no one ever pre-ordered a new version of a good game, there would be less reason to make new versions... making a whole new game comes will less "I hate change/get off my lawn" responses... So has a better chance of succeeding anyway.
DK
awesome
Meme Lord
get off my lawn anyway.
The7Sins
Hungry Burger
There there we all have to learn that lesson @ some time. For me it came due to the crap that was Mass Effect 2. Love Bioware and loved Mass Effect 1 but they failed hard with 2.
But for me @ least I learned that lesson before Civ V came out so I didn't preorder it. Then again when I learned of 1upt I knew I'd not enjoy it.
To expand on lymond's comments:
My thought is "Would you buy a car with a missing wheel?" I guess you could drive it if you weighted the car strategically and never turned corners.
With all of the marketing hyperbole that surrounded Civ5, it's much like a car that the salesperson forgot to mention only came with three wheels. You need to wait for the wheel patch in order to drive, then you realize that the brakes don't work, etc., etc., etc...
How many other products do you buy in this sort of condition? When does it become acceptable to pay good money for an unfinished product? Why do I need to wait more than six months to have a functional game even resembling what the marketing wags told us that we'd have on launch day? It doesn't matter how much warm, fuzzy bull**** that 2K Greg and Elizabeth fed us prior to launch, we got a partially finished game. There simply is no way that you can call the game anything but a beta release. Maybe a late beta, but a beta all the same.
Am I the only one who sees the absolute stupidity in this sort of complacency? As a woman, I can expect a salesman to possibly be patronizing, because I'm a "dumb woman" and I "don't understand these technical things." I can even expect to pay more for a car than a man does, though I don't. I don't put up with that rubbish in real life, and I don't expect anyone else to either. I will not just lie down and be taken advantage of, and sold something that is clearly not what I was promised, broken and incomplete, without complaining about it.
Looking at the Civ5 forum and all of the "defenders of the faith" that regularly tell us we're being silly and that's how the game market does business, it makes me wonder...
When did we all become sheep?
Cynical answer: We're all sheep, have always been, and every important aspect of life has professional shepherds to keep it that way . Some of us have fields of interest where we bother to think and occasionally even act like human beings.
Consistently refusing to act like sheep would make it likely to end up in your care if I remember your profession correctly. While drapetomania (the desire of a slave to be free) isn't a recognised mental disorder any more, some criteria of currently recognised ones could be paraphrased as 'refusing to think and act like sheep'.
Those who won't go all the way can be found on internet forums, ranting
*
From an economic point of view: Make the right products for your customers. In emerging markets, your customers may be enthusiasts who can recognise quality and technical elegance. Eventually, most of your customers will be sheep and your products should reflect this.
Make them idiot-friendly, make them flashy, make them marketable, don't make them better than they have to be (good enough that customers will buy the replacement, bad enough to have little life left in them by the time you offer the replacement).
Consistently refusing to act like sheep would make it likely to end up in your care if I remember your profession correctly. While drapetomania (the desire of a slave to be free) isn't a recognised mental disorder any more, some criteria of currently recognised ones could be paraphrased as 'refusing to think and act like sheep'.
Those who won't go all the way can be found on internet forums, ranting
*
From an economic point of view: Make the right products for your customers. In emerging markets, your customers may be enthusiasts who can recognise quality and technical elegance. Eventually, most of your customers will be sheep and your products should reflect this.
Make them idiot-friendly, make them flashy, make them marketable, don't make them better than they have to be (good enough that customers will buy the replacement, bad enough to have little life left in them by the time you offer the replacement).
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,989
No, you are not, but some of us are semi-shackled in terms of what we can say.
The other problem is that we have no legal recourse; they can just get away with it...although the inability to use DLC in MP when it was advertised as MP left a brief window one could pin them on false advertising (although advertising MP in general is borderline false advertising).
The level of corruption from major review publications is flagrant too. How can a credible review service with people doing that as their profession give the game a 9.5, write a two page article, and not even have ONE instance of the word "bug" in the entire thing? When it comes to game software there are no standards; people can get away with lying to consumers while taking their money for advice because it's "subjective"
I don't like to be a sheep, and it's trivial to see we're being herded, which makes it all the more frustrating that somehow, the majority of people don't see that...and that I come out looking like a bad person for pointing this out (as opposed to simply arrogant
).jbevermore
Warmongering Menace
No, you are not, but some of us are semi-shackled in terms of what we can say.
The other problem is that we have no legal recourse; they can just get away with it...although the inability to use DLC in MP when it was advertised as MP left a brief window one could pin them on false advertising (although advertising MP in general is borderline false advertising).
The level of corruption from major review publications is flagrant too. How can a credible review service with people doing that as their profession give the game a 9.5, write a two page article, and not even have ONE instance of the word "bug" in the entire thing? When it comes to game software there are no standards; people can get away with lying to consumers while taking their money for advice because it's "subjective"
I don't like to be a sheep, and it's trivial to see we're being herded, which makes it all the more frustrating that somehow, the majority of people don't see that...and that I come out looking like a bad person for pointing this out (as opposed to simply arrogant
*whistles*
Not going to totally defend CiV. It's got problems, sure, some more crippling then others. It was horrifyingly broken when it first came out, sure, put a lot of tarnish on the Civilization name for me. But it's in a better state now then it was before (it's playable!), and I honestly enjoy the game or two I play a week. For me, Civ 5 was kinda like the Windows Vista of the series; radical changes to an increasingly static platform resulting in a lot of growing pains. And like Vista I think CiV takes a lot more crap then it deserves.
Also, sheep? Really? C'mon, we're not talking about the Vietnam war.
And you'd be very well cared for.
Guilty.Those who won't go all the way can be found on internet forums, ranting
Your Vista comparison is very good. The game is better than it was, but it still has a long way to go, IMO.
As for Vietnam, sorry, I was a very small child when it ended, and since I was born and raised in Ireland, I had other things to worry about when I got older. No slight intended to any Vietnam veterans, but it was just another war to me, and not a particularly important one.
And before you jump all over me, please remember that I'm giving the non-American perspective in this case. I wouldn't expect any of our American posters to even know about, or give a whit about the troubles in Ireland. From your perspective, it's irrelevant.
MeatUnit2
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2010
- Messages
- 174
I too feel ripped off by Civ 5 and still play IV and really enjoy it. Plus the amazing mods (holy crap they are so good). [Thank you guys for your great efforts.]
I too think Mass Effect is better than Mass Effect 2. Mining isn't fun.
I too will buy Mass Effect 3 because Mass Effect was so great I can't stop handing BioWare my money. You evil b@st@rds.
Mass Effect is really good. And you can replay it and it is still fun if you try a different specialty. Not a whole lot of replay value after that.
But I also really really love GTA IV, and nobody likes that game. To each his own.
Try stealing a car from the second floor of the dealership and driving out of the window and flying down into traffic with the radio cranked up. You might enjoy it. I know I do.
I too think Mass Effect is better than Mass Effect 2. Mining isn't fun.
I too will buy Mass Effect 3 because Mass Effect was so great I can't stop handing BioWare my money. You evil b@st@rds.
Mass Effect is really good. And you can replay it and it is still fun if you try a different specialty. Not a whole lot of replay value after that.
But I also really really love GTA IV, and nobody likes that game. To each his own.
Try stealing a car from the second floor of the dealership and driving out of the window and flying down into traffic with the radio cranked up. You might enjoy it. I know I do.
The7Sins
Hungry Burger
1. Thank you. Someone with half a brain. I am sick of having to debate with those fanboys over @ Bioware's forum. ME2 was just a horrendous game.
2. Well after 11 ME1 games I've done pretty much everything possible.
3. Yet I struggled to play 1 playthrough of ME2. If ME3 doesn't go back to its roots of ME1 combat and plot with no damn plot holes or retcons then I'll not buy it and rite off my time playing 1 and 2 as a waste of my time.
Though if 3 is a good game I'll not only buy it but swallow my hatred of 2 and play it 10 more times to get my Shepards ready for transfer.
I really wish people would call Civ V Civ V instead of CiV, It's much easier to read that way.
Having said that and owning both games, I would recommend holding off on V for a while, it's just takes so long to play a game, even with a pretty good PC that you could easily play two or three games of Civ IV in the same time. It will take a while for Firaxis to get the balance of V right, I'm sure there will be a lot more patches to come.
Probably irreleveant now that sales have probably ended and whatnot, but I still find IV far more entertaining, definitely helped by how quickly it can be played.
Edit: Just noticed Mr. Red Text complaining about ME2 vs ME1 and felt compelled to ask how anyone could possibly want a return to ME1 combat. It was atrocious. Horrible. Awful. Any other number of derogatory terms.
It was basically "pick pistols as your weapon of choice unless you want to be horribly inefficient at shooting stuff."
I could barely stomach a single playthrough of ME1.
Having said that and owning both games, I would recommend holding off on V for a while, it's just takes so long to play a game, even with a pretty good PC that you could easily play two or three games of Civ IV in the same time. It will take a while for Firaxis to get the balance of V right, I'm sure there will be a lot more patches to come.
Probably irreleveant now that sales have probably ended and whatnot, but I still find IV far more entertaining, definitely helped by how quickly it can be played.
Edit: Just noticed Mr. Red Text complaining about ME2 vs ME1 and felt compelled to ask how anyone could possibly want a return to ME1 combat. It was atrocious. Horrible. Awful. Any other number of derogatory terms.
It was basically "pick pistols as your weapon of choice unless you want to be horribly inefficient at shooting stuff."
I could barely stomach a single playthrough of ME1.
jgroth1978
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2010
- Messages
- 121
The one thing in this thread that I can agree with 100%.
kiwitt
Road to War Modder
Early details on Civ VII, indicates it will be even better. They are training the new developers at an early age, too!
Early details on Civ VII, indicates it will be even better. They are training the new developers at an early age, too!
Not having suffered the pain of paying for and playing Civ V (I agree this is better definition) I like this. Gave me a good laugh. Thanks. I hope the victims don't take offense.
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