Is "Beyond the Sword" dead?

[Spearthrower]

Raider62 - have you checked out your memory? Sounds like some problems there to me - there are plenty of free downloads to test your hardware.

 

[toft]

Its perfectly true for physical product If i sell you a mobile phone you pay me for it and when it arrives it wont turn on once you bring it back to me i refuse to refund it any replacement will have the same problem and the manufacturer refuses to even talk to you its fraud/theft and in the UK the police will prosecute (several hundred ebayers a year at present)

But what if the phone is working, but its your provider that cant let you use the phone = the game works, but your computer isnt compatible...

In short... that game you bought... it works.

 

[Photi]

At this point: Melodrama.

ROFL! sweet!

 

[unikey]

At this point: Melodrama.

ROFLMAO

 

[unikey]

But what if the phone is working, but its your provider that cant let you use the phone = the game works, but your computer isnt compatible...

In short... that game you bought... it works.

If the phone was sold to work with that carrier its not "fit for purpose" and under the sale of goods act they either have to refund,replace with one that works or repair (although a consumer doesnt have to accept a repair)

As I said earlier I've got it working on a mini imagewahts annoying are the number of people who dont think its broken just because it works for them and that Firaxis dont communicate with their customers

 

[unikey]

I'd describe it as hardware conflicts.... and having worked in pc building, I would make a stiff bet that that is exactly the problem.

I could be wrong though.... it could also be software conflicts..

Its vista/securerom/disk subsytem and its a known issue

Oh yes, please please do try to take this case to court, it would be thrown out not because it's not worth it but because you have no proof.

You are running under the evidence of one person (yourself) while Firaxis could provide hundreds of thousands of users who do not have your problem.... who would the judge believe?.

In the UK its doesnt matter about all the other people, I can prove it doesnt work on my PC runnning vista (works running XP) I can prove that a third of the product doesnt work as intended (marathon mode) I can prove that firaxis have failed to communicate let alone find a resolution, its a guaranteed win in a small claims court but to do it will take two days off work and a few months to get it into court which means its not worth the effort. IIRC microprose lost several times about 12 years ago for exactly the same reason on a game called battle of britain and one of the fuel companies (iirc total) lost last year over additives in the petrol that caused damage to some petrol engines and didnt work in others but was fine in the majority of cases

People have very simplistic expectations when it comes to PC games and really, for those people, I respectfully suggest that they look to console gaming..... if the game doesnt work when you are using a console, then you do indeed have something to complain about.

I expect when I have problems with a product that the company responsible will communicate within a month I dont think thats unreasonable


Simon

 

[jdurg]

I love how when someone can't get their game to work they become legal experts. Makes you wonder why they didn't become lawyers instead of bitter gamers?

 

[Spearthrower]

In the UK its doesnt matter about all the other people, I can prove it doesnt work on my PC runnning vista (works running XP) I can prove that a third of the product doesnt work as intended (marathon mode)

Sorry Simon but I disagree.

In the U.K. the onus is on you to prove that the product does not function as advertised.

The problem is that you are claiming that the game doesn't work under Vista, yet it does for the most part - again, the burden of proof lies on you to prosecute them for failure to meet its design specifications.... claiming that it doesnt work on your p.c. is far from proof. The defense would state that Vista is the problem.... or that your hardware is the problem and that would be that, no one would be able to prove either way.

As for Marathon mode - again, that would be laughed out of court - you and I both accept that it is not calculated correctly, as in the numbers are off.... but the functions still work - it isn't broken, just not perfectly balanced.

The only thing you could do in court is to make the retailer refund your purchase.... which most UK retailers do anyway within specified time limits. If that was not possible, you could force the local distributor to refund you.

The fault is not with Firaxis as they are Designers and all rights are signed to the Publisher.... further, the Publisher can't be held to blame for the retailer not accepting a returned product.... the best suggestion is to use a retailer that guarantees a return period (it's been many years since I last lived in the U.K. so I can't remember the names of the high street retailers, but even then they offered 10 or more days in which you had the right to return it.

 

[toft]

Its vista/securerom/disk subsytem and its a known issue

In the UK its doesnt matter about all the other people, I can prove it doesnt work on my PC runnning vista (works running XP) I can prove that a third of the product doesnt work as intended (marathon mode) I can prove that firaxis have failed to communicate let alone find a resolution, its a guaranteed win in a small claims court but to do it will take two days off work and a few months to get it into court which means its not worth the effort. IIRC microprose lost several times about 12 years ago for exactly the same reason on a game called battle of britain and one of the fuel companies (iirc total) lost last year over additives in the petrol that caused damage to some petrol engines and didnt work in others but was fine in the majority of cases

I expect when I have problems with a product that the company responsible will communicate within a month I dont think thats unreasonable

Simon

First of all Vista shouldnt be judged that fast - Im running vista x64.
Second. The game hardly broke anything in your computer - if it did then
Third... first thing I'd try was to swap DVD-drive in your desktop... might not help, but worth a try.

 

[Florian]

until you have unwrapped it at which point you cant return it

Seriously? What retail store would refuse to refund your money if you returned the game soon after purchasing it and told them it didn't work?

I can prove that firaxis have failed to communicate let alone find a resolution

First, you cannot prove that Firaxis has failed to find a resolution. There will be patches. Second, failing to answer customer emails might be bad customer service, but it's not the kind of thing you can sue them for.

 

[Armorydave]

I cannot speak for British law but the idea that any game company could be prosecuted for *criminal* offenses in the US over "defective" gaming software is utter nonsense. The idea that a physical product manufacturer could be charged with criminal offenses for selling a defective product (unless they knowingly shipped something that could cause harm to the consumers) is utter nonsense. Utter, complete fantasy at least on our side of the pond.

I suspect that is all true for England as well and will continue to think that until someone links case law that shows otherwise. Citing unlinked E-Bay scammers as "proof" is equally ridiculous. They are not even remotely similar situations in the eyes of the law or any reasonable person.

 

[hoopsnerd]

Seriously? What retail store would refuse to refund your money if you returned the game soon after purchasing it and told them it didn't work?

Best Buy. They didnt do it to me, but its the policy they hold. I hate Best Buy.

 

[mrt144]

the infinite loop bug is not NOT a hardware issue.

 

[Lurking Liu]

Caveat Emptor.

 

[alex sword]

Guys, now I play BTS, and I am trying to model how much it takes to upkeep corporations. If you've any model which takes world size, number and size of the cities, their distance and number of "corporated cities" as input - please let me know.

Thank you very much!

 

[Trainwreck20]

Okay, so I read the first four or so pages of the thread...got bored...my two cents:

Just finished my first complete game: (huge/normal/noble) and it is sooooo much more fun than just Warlords. Game ran to the end (no SS victory enabled) withouth anything near game breaking. The animations had some minor issues, but that was it. AI is MUCH improved, love the surpirse attacks and at least somewhat coherent use of navy. Not sure about corps, have not entirely figured em out yet.

 

[MrFrodo]

lol, these gamebreaking bugs haven't seemed to keep me from enjoying this version of Civ more than any of the ones before. Maybe it is dead for you, but it was just born for me

Firaxis generally does a pretty good job from what I've seen. Not perfect certainly. You have to realize that after a big release software companies need to take a deep breath. People go on well-deserved vacations and ramp up slowly when they return. Plus, if they are going to make balance changes they need to get a lot of feedback from the community, learn what mechanics can be exploited, see how Solver's patch does, play with the right way to fix things, catch all the documented non-balance issues and of course spend a lot of time testing that, not to mention all the beauracratic overhead associated with a software release that has to be mucked through.

It seems like Solver's patch is pretty stable if I ever feel compelled to fix the gamebreaking bugs which I mostly haven't noticed yet

 

[unikey]

Sorry Simon but I disagree.

In the U.K. the onus is on you to prove that the product does not function as advertised.

The problem is that you are claiming that the game doesn't work under Vista, yet it does for the most part - again, the burden of proof lies on you to prosecute them for failure to meet its design specifications.... claiming that it doesnt work on your p.c. is far from proof. The defense would state that Vista is the problem.... or that your hardware is the problem and that would be that, no one would be able to prove either way.

As i said its easy to prove its a known issue with securerom which firaxis knew before they used on their software

As for Marathon mode - again, that would be laughed out of court - you and I both accept that it is not calculated correctly, as in the numbers are off.... but the functions still work - it isn't broken, just not perfectly balanced.

That falls foul as it isnt fit for purpose

The only thing you could do in court is to make the retailer refund your purchase.... which most UK retailers do anyway within specified time limits. If that was not possible, you could force the local distributor to refund you.

Again not true as they have a non returnable policy dictacted by the publisher

The fault is not with Firaxis as they are Designers and all rights are signed to the Publisher.... further, the Publisher can't be held to blame for the retailer not accepting a returned product.... the best suggestion is to use a retailer that guarantees a return period (it's been many years since I last lived in the U.K. so I can't remember the names of the high street retailers, but even then they offered 10 or more days in which you had the right to return it.

That would entirely depend on who decided\insisted on using securerom/copyprotection if the designers insisted on using it they are liable

Simon

 

[Smidlee]

EB use to let you return games for any reason. I returned MMO3 simply because I didn't like it then a month later they stopped their return policy. Too bad they had to stop this because of abused. I was told some were even copying consoles games.

 

[Lurking Liu]

How long ago was that, Smidlee? When I worked for EB, we only ever took unopened returns, and this was back in 2000-2001. Of course, that could have just been me... I've always been a customer's worst nightmare when returns are involved... People tend to forget the second half of the old axiom:
Part 1: The Customer is always right.
Part 2: Smite him for his arrogance.