Is Hinduism incompatible with American pluralism?

[aneeshm]

This is quite an interesting question. Lot of people (me included) believe that Islam cannot fit into the pluralist model America and Europe have instituted, due to its nature. But can the same be said of Hinduism, too (for totally different reasons)?

It's a rather long article, but quite an interesting one, so I recommend it be read in its entirety. Like this issue itself, it cannot be simplified further.

Link

Please don't reply without reading the article, because you will almost inevitably come to the wrong conclusion if you do (because of the nature of the topic).

 

[Bill3000]

American pluralism? Do you mean the form of secularism that is practiced in America, as opposed to, for example, secularism in France and Turkey?

 

[aneeshm]

The article is written using the American ideal of secularism as a reference.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Very, very interesting article. I don't have any simple answers, but I appreciate the way it points out the "all-encompassing wisp of framework bias" (to borrow a quote) that puts the debate off on the wrong foot.

Oddity:

If it refers to ‘God’ (the biblical god), the ...

and

One possibility is that ...

seem to go over to

That is ...

without exploring the other branch of "if" or the the other possibility. (Second paragraph of point 1.)

 

[Masquerouge]

An interesting read.
I understand why Hinduism is incompatible with the American pluralism. It makes sense. But I'm afraid, however, that the first solution (turning Hinduism into some sort of monotheistic religion) is the one that's going to get implemented.

In other words: Hinduism in the US will move further and further apart from Hinduism in India as it tries to adapt to the American "secular" model.

 

[Phlegmak]

An interesting read.
I understand why Hinduism is incompatible with the American pluralism. It makes sense. But I'm afraid, however, that the first solution (turning Hinduism into some sort of monotheistic religion) is the one that's going to get implemented.

In other words: Hinduism in the US will move further and further apart from Hinduism in India as it tries to adapt to the American "secular" model.

I haven't read the article.

It's strange that you say that. I've spoken to Hindus about their religion at my workplace. I frequently get weird answers that I wouldn't expect. I've heard from Hindus:

* If you believe in a god, then it's real.
* There is only one god in Hinduism, but many incarnations.
* There are millions of gods in Hinduism.

 

[Masquerouge]

I haven't read the article.

It's strange that you say that. I've spoken to Hindus about their religion at my workplace. I frequently get weird answers that I wouldn't expect. I've heard from Hindus:

* If you believe in a god, then it's real.
* There is only one god in Hinduism, but many incarnations.
* There are millions of gods in Hinduism.

You should read the article then because that's precisely what this is all about

Basically, when people from the monotheistic religions try to interpret Hinduism, they tend to transform it to something they can understand, i.e. with God, and doctrines, and different Churches. And that's not correct at all. The monotheistic framework can not be used to understand Hinduism, and hence that's why you were surprised by the answers: they did not fit in your usual religious framework.

 

[aneeshm]

An interesting read.
I understand why Hinduism is incompatible with the American pluralism. It makes sense. But I'm afraid, however, that the first solution (turning Hinduism into some sort of monotheistic religion) is the one that's going to get implemented.

In other words: Hinduism in the US will move further and further apart from Hinduism in India as it tries to adapt to the American "secular" model.

There is that possibility, but it ignores the force that kept Hinduism alive for millennia - that of the Great Prophet, or rather, Great Guru.

Hinduism relies on the regular appearance of great people and gurus who become the upholders of dharma, and who rescue the community in times of need with their teachings and guidance, who adapt old solutions to new problems. Once the Hindu community achieves a critical mass in the USA in terms of organisation (as is happening now), such a leader is bound to rise, and lead the community down the right path.

The quote from my signature is quite, quite appropriate for this:

यदा यदा हि धर्मस्य ग्लानिर्भवति भारत ।
अभ्युत्थानमधर्मस्य तदात्मानं सृजाम्यहम् ॥४-७॥
परित्राणाय साधूनाम् विनाशाय च दुष्कृताम् ।
धर्मसंस्थापनार्थाय संभवामि युगे युगे ॥४-८॥

Meaning : Whenever there is a decline of Dharma (Righteousness) and a predominance of Adharma (Unrighteousness), O Arjuna, then I manifest Myself. I appear from time to time for protecting the good, for destroying the wicked, and for establishing world order (Dharma). (4.07-08 , Srimad Bhagwat Gita)

 

[Masquerouge]

There is that possibility, but it ignores the force that kept Hinduism alive for millennia - that of the Great Prophet, or rather, Great Guru.

Hinduism relies on the regular appearance of great people and gurus who become the upholders of dharma, and who rescue the community in times of need with their teachings and guidance, who adapt old solutions to new problems. Once the Hindu community achieves a critical mass in the USA in terms of organisation (as is happening now), such a leader is bound to rise, and lead the community down the right path.

The quote from my signature is quite, quite appropriate for this:

Allright. It makes sort of sense. Better watch my colleagues closely in case one of them is the Great Guru!

 

[aneeshm]

I haven't read the article.

It's strange that you say that. I've spoken to Hindus about their religion at my workplace. I frequently get weird answers that I wouldn't expect. I've heard from Hindus:

* If you believe in a god, then it's real.
* There is only one god in Hinduism, but many incarnations.
* There are millions of gods in Hinduism.

Funny co-incidence, but I just found a very good definition of "Who is a Hindu", which neatly covers all these people.

A Hindu is one who believes there is an attainable truth which need not necessarily be empirically verifiable.

A Hindu is one who believes that such truth/s can be attained by anyone regardless of sex/race/caste/colour/nationality/sect/creed or religion, thereby denouncing the dogmatic stance of exclusive salvation.

A Hindu is one who considers all the diverse Hindu religious scriptures to have a degree of sanctity, but this does not entail disrespect for scriptures of other religions, howsoever primitive they might be.

-Saurav Basu, on Orkut's Hinduism community

If you actually want to understand what these answers (that people gave you) mean, however, you should study the six schools of orthodox Hindu philosophy.

 

[Phlegmak]

You should read the article then because that's precisely what this is all about

Basically, when people from the monotheistic religions try to interpret Hinduism, they tend to transform it to something they can understand, i.e. with God, and doctrines, and different Churches. And that's not correct at all. The monotheistic framework can not be used to understand Hinduism, and hence that's why you were surprised by the answers: they did not fit in your usual religious framework.

Actually, this is what I truly expected from my Hindu coworkers:

* I believe that all of the gods of Hinduism are real. I worship this particularly god the most. I do not believe the Abrahamic god is real.

By the way, I was reading another article on the site. It strongly reminded me of aneeshm's posts in the past concerning Islam.

http://www.india-forum.com/articles/157/1/Will-Islam-convert-itself

"Sooner or later nearly the entire world will wage a war against Islam, from Europe to China, from the Ural to Pakistan."

 

[Masquerouge]

Actually, this is what I truly expected from my Hindu coworkers:

* I believe that all of the gods of Hinduism are real. I worship this particularly god the most. I do not believe the Abrahamic god is real.

Yeah, basically you expected an answer that was comprehensible in a Judeo-Christian framework

 

[aneeshm]

Actually, this is what I truly expected from my Hindu coworkers:

* I believe that all of the gods of Hinduism are real. I worship this particularly god the most. I do not believe the Abrahamic god is real.

So it appears that the author was spot-on, wasn't he?

By the way, I was reading another article on the site. It strongly reminded me of aneeshm's posts in the past concerning Islam.

http://www.india-forum.com/articles/157/1/Will-Islam-convert-itself

"Sooner or later nearly the entire world will wage a war against Islam, from Europe to China, from the Ural to Pakistan."

The website itself is a sort of collection of various articles by various authors, most of whom have widely differing views. I'd rather you focus on the article in question, because the site has literally hundreds of articles. I've read the one you mention, and though it is a gross, gross oversimplification, it still presents something which is, in essence, close to the truth in some ways - that basically, the current situation is unsustainable, and that sooner or later it will lead to trouble, because people will blame the nearest associated group.

But that is a discussion for another time.

 

[Xanikk999]

Aneeshm if you ever lived in america or been thier you would see muslims and hindus can live here fine without being lynched.

 

[Phlegmak]

Aneeshm if you ever lived in america or been thier you would see muslims and hindus can live here fine without being lynched.

I think he realizes that.

Whatever the article says, aneeshm, Hindus live fine here.

 

[bhsup]

Bear with me on this, because it may seem a bit odd.

I think Hindus, for the very reason that their religions is so alien and different from Christianity, would be more readily accepted than Islam, which is another Abrahamic religion. As long as it's never to the point where a very, very large minority of Hindus live in America (I'm thinking around 25-35% or more), I don't ever see it being a problem.

I know I'll fail to explain why I think this, but I'll try. Islam could be seen by some (no, I do not agree with this, I respect most all religions), given it's tie-ins with Judaism and CHristianity, as a heretical and/or blasphemous faith by some. Hinduism, on the other hand, being so totally different and admittedly alien in concept to most Christians would, I think, be viewed more along the lines of "well, that's an awfully odd thing you got going, but as long as you don't try to convert my kids, more power to you". (*)

(*) - Of course, don't expect Christian missionaries to stay away from Hindu homes.

 

[Masquerouge]

I think he realizes that.

Whatever the article says, aneeshm, Hindus live fine here.

Did you read the article?

Because it's not a matter of Hindus not living fine. It's a matter of Hindus living fine because they are moving Hinduism away from its Indian origins.

 

[Xanikk999]

Well its a choice you have to make if you want to be hindu, not the governments choice.

 

[Masquerouge]

Well its a choice you have to make if you want to be hindu, not the governments choice.

If you would kindly read the article in the OP that would help the discussion stay focused.

 

[Xanikk999]

If you would kindly read the article in the OP that would help the discussion stay focused.

Sorry its way too long for me and im not interested. Il withdraw from the discussion unless someone cares to summarize it.