Is it time to privatize cities?

[Marla_Singer]

Downtown pretty much nailed it in post #2. The extremists on this forum just get tiring after a while.

Downtown, as well as the NY Times article, indeed clarifies the economical aspect of it, but not the political one.

I think this topic deserves to be dug a bit further. The difference between a public or a private city isn't about management, it's only about ownership. Suggesting private cities is just extending a bit further the free market conception that already guides most activities worldwide.


I've seen a pretty well-made documentary about the evolution of the financial markets from 2000 to nowadays. The documentary stated that the 2008 crisis which has followen Lehman Brothers collapse didn't lead to a better public monitoring of financial markets. Exactly at the opposite, the chosen solution initiated by Paulson actually lead to even more powerful financial markets. More specifically, even more power in the hands of the largest banks.

And indeed, when we read all the events which have followen the crisis both in the US and in Western Europe, we can conclude that governments don't assume the leadership on economical matters anymore, they only follow what large banks asked them to do through the pressure of financial markets. Thus making the check and balance system (on which our societies have been established) rather irrelevant.

I should probably make a thread about that.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Don't get yer knickers in a twist Hobbs It doesn't take a lot to get you angry does it?

I am fully entiltled to a moan once in a while

I'm not angry actually. You have to write negro to get me angry. Jk

Although I don't really care for being labeled an extremist.

 

[Murky]

If you've ever seen the movie "It's a wonderful life" Potterville would be another example of a privatized city. One greedy old fart in a wheel char owning everything and average person leads a miserable life of scraping by.

 

[Angst]

Privatized cities??

Doomsday clock.

[TIMER="11-2-2013 04:00"][/TIMER]

 

[Disgustipated]

I still think it could work under the right conditions (not surprisingly the conditions are the same for a well functioning government controlled city). The conditions? An educated populace taking an interest in the future of their city. I'm paraphrasing Jefferson here. In short, when people are informed and take interest in their city, good things will happen no matter if it is controlled by the government or a private corporation. When the population is ignorant, both will fail just as equally.

"Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government; that, whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights."

"The price of liberty is eternal vigilance."

 

[Crezth]

I still think it could work under the right conditions (not surprisingly the conditions are the same for a well functioning government controlled city). The conditions? An educated populace taking an interest in the future of their city. I'm paraphrasing Jefferson here. In short, when people are informed and take interest in their city, good things will happen no matter if it is controlled by the government or a private corporation. When the population is ignorant, both will fail just as equally.

I think you are not grasping the meaning of the term "private." That means everybody doesn't have a say. So they can be as well or as poorly educated as you like, but the authority goes to the man with the deed to the city.

 

[Disgustipated]

I can't imagine they would have no say at all. That would clearly not work. How could board members who presumably live in the U.S. have any idea what the conditions are there. The problem there is the citizens are "forced" to buy a product. Presumably their taxes are funding the corporation to run the town. So they would be forced to support whatever policies the board members felt fit to impose upon the population. I really don't need to go into how bad that would be.

Ideally you'd have a free market system where citizens would pay for services they use. If they didn't like who was in power, they wouldn't pay their taxes. Of course that wouldn't work either, everybody would say they don't like who's in power just to get out of paying taxes. The only way it could work is if the corporation listened to the people. This is the problem. It isn't like McDonald's where if the customers don't like it, they don't go to the restaurant. It's like being forced to live in McDonald's and eat their crappy food and pay for it. I couldn't imagine anything worse.

 

[Save_Ferris]

The CFC server doesn't like them, because they are wrong.

Hey, what's mentioned in the OP hasn't been implemented yet, so I think it's safe to say that there's no certain outcome. It will probably suck, but sounds like a good movie anyway.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Hey, what's mentioned in the OP hasn't been implemented yet, so I think it's safe to say that there's no certain outcome. It will probably suck, but sounds like a good movie anyway.

It's called Atlas Shrugged II.

Bite me Quackers.

 

[Quackers]

what have i done now?

7000 appearances. Look at that. What a beautiful number.

 

[Mad Man]

I don't know, would you really be comfortable with privatized court rooms enforced be privatized police that work for privatized governing bodies that make and dictate the laws in which you live by? You'd literally be living in a town ran by the mafia.

 

[FriendlyFire]

A totally privatized city would probably end up being 90% slums controlled by gangs like Kowloon city or Mogadishu Somalia.

I thought it would be a utopian libertarian paradise of middle class rich people, without a need for police, courts, fireman. With everyone living in perfect harmony, and no one in need, no homeless, no crime and no poverty.

 

[Murky]

I thought it would be a utopian libertarian paradise of middle class rich people, without a need for police, courts, fireman. With everyone living in perfect harmony, and no one in need, no homeless, no crime and no poverty.

A libertarian paradise would be anything but utopian. One reason people become libertarian is because they feel no guilt when they don't share with those in need. They tend to think people in poverty are to blame for their own misfortune. That's why you end up with a lot of inequality in that type of society. The people in control would end up owning everything. Those in the working class would get low wages and no benefits. The majority would be living in poverty. That is up until they realized how much the bosses were screwing them over and go into revolt to overthrow the system.

 

[Arwon]

Are we talking about privatised services or government? It's not really clear.

But yeah I'm not sure there's much point in trying to create a market for most municipal services. Maybe water can be made to work, but even then I'm a bit skeptical.

 

[Hygro]

I think charter cities are a great idea for certain regions. If I founded one I wouldn't make it a for-profit city though, that's just dumb.

 

[GoodGame]

A totally privatized city would probably end up being 90% slums controlled by gangs like Kowloon city or Mogadishu Somalia.

Yeah I support this concept. Privatize the police and you'll probably get gangs directed by organized crime, with the police only preventing/minimizing open mob wars.

The key is open bidding within sunshine and anti-monopoly laws, so if one provider can't serve adequately then another can be brought in.

 

[Global Skeptic]

In short - this city will functionally break down if a sufficient % of the customers go on a total no-pay and sit-down consumer boycott; imagine all the trespassers and otherwise lawbreakers the police would have to run down if no rent/mortgage/road-fee/utility usage were paid.

 

[bhsup]

This documentary made back in the 90s about the OmniConsumer Products corporation pretty well illustrates what happens to people and their rights when cities are privatized. Just look at what they tried to do to the people in Cadillac Heights. Thankfully there was one cop that was willing to stand up, take the future, and give it back to the people.


Link to video.

 

[Gigaz]

Hey, noone here has yet mentioned that this comes just three years after the military coup d'etat in Honduras where the centrist president was replaced by a president from a party that is very much neo-liberal.
I'll see what I can find on international participants in this putsch.

Edit: It looks like the coup d'etat was at some point backed by the US, if not planned entirely. Former president Zelaya was flown to Costa Rica from a US military base. The US ambassador was one of very few that was not withdrawn from Honduras. Wikileaks has a document from 2009 (http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Legal_des..._against_President_Manual_Zelaya,_29_Jun_2009).
I didn't read it, but the commentary reads "It should be noted that the document is clearly designed to be a defence of the President's (Zelayas) removal"


In 2008, president Zelaya and opposition leader/soon-to-be president Micheletti unanimously approved to join ALBA (which was founded to be an alliance against US influence in South America).
In 2010, Honduras under Micheletti withdrew from the ALBA.

 

[Eat_Up_Martha]

I suppose it could actually lead to a middle-class 'utopia' in some ways because any citizen who can not afford to live in such a city might simply be removed from it altogether. Without any form of social provisions for the poor all groups would be incentivized to relocate them, by choice or by force. The poor would be better off in non-privatized cities where they can be assured at least basic services and the rich would probably be enticed to remove non-contributing and possibly criminal elements from their communities. And it such policies would be much easier to put in place given that citizenship is essentially a purchasable commodity.

It doesn't really solve the nation's problem at all, but it does solve the individual city's problem. If anything, it would probably increase national criminal activity and the aforementioned murder rate by cramming even more destitute, desperate individuals into the remaining overpopulated cities and straining their resources even more. I would also imagine having a police force and legal system that is explicitly not on your side would promote a criminal mindset.