Is Nancy Pelosi the worst person ever? Discuss..

[theimmortal1]

Firstly, theres a lot of responses as I'm typing so its hard to get to everything. If you have anything real specific feel free to PM me.

What's socially conservative about buying meth from your gay hooker?

If anything you can say hes pretty economically conservative. But either way like I've said just because hes gay, doesn't mean he cannot be a socially conservative spokesman. As long as he isn't advocating homosexual unions as marriage, abortions, among other things, then he has no contradictions.


I'll try to respond to as many things as possible

 

[Neomega]

Now look what happened theimmortal1, mojo just came in, and because he presented facts, made Pelosi look like a Libertarian. Geez. Right now, I think Pelosi is Linertarian enough not to have the title of worst person ever.


Now what you got to convince me otherwise?

 

[JollyRoger]

As long as he isn't advocating homosexual unions as marriage, abortions, among other things, then he has no contradictions.

It's obvious he hates gay marriage but loves gay hookers. What is conservative about preferring a hooker to a spouse?

 

[theimmortal1]

I'll have you know, I worked the booths for at the fair for 3 years tirelessly for the Libertarian party in 2000, 2001, and 2002. Not only that I worked on campaigns here, and was vice chair for my local Libertarian Party.


I don't particularly like Pelosi, but she is far from the most authoritarian (opposite of Libertarian) person in US government today... that trophy rests the Bush administration mantle.

Well hopefully you are familiar with the spectrum; however, it is the opinion of mine and many academics that you cannot be truly libertarian unless you are both economically right and individually free. They cannot be separated. Obviously like I said earlier, Pelosi isn't nearly as bad as Stalin. She actually isn't horribly bad in terms of individual freedoms. But she is an extreme partisan and she isn't the greatest in terms of economic freedoms.


And I'll respond to Mojo in a sec. Which he/she has made the best post of the thread so far.

 

[Neomega]

Well hopefully you are familiar with the spectrum;

Of course I am, I only administered the test to ovr a thousand people, face to face.

however, it is the opinion of mine and many academics that you cannot be truly libertarian unless you are both economically right and individually free. They cannot be separated.

Yes, allthough, of course, like all political philosophies, there are certainly shades of gray. I am just wondering what, "as a Libertarian" makes Pelosi worse than Bush? (or less partisan)

 

[theimmortal1]

She votes the Democratic party line (as far as I can tell) 100% of the time. But in the past two years that's often in sync with Libertarian interests.

Well whats libertarian for all intents and purposes?

socially liberal + economically conservative

Considering both the platforms of both the Democrats and Republicans take pieces of the socially liberal and economically conservatives ideals respectively, it is obvious they have some libertarian interests.

So surely we can pick and choose something from any politican and fit it in. Yes Pelosi would like to increase some civil liberties. Which is great. But her tax record is there to be seen by all.

 

[Kraznaya]

Why is it to most Libertarians that economic conservatism seems to trump social liberalism everytime? For some reason Fascist states seem to trump EuroSocialism in the eyes of most libertarian members. =/

 

[theimmortal1]

Why is it to most Libertarians that economic conservatism seems to trump social liberalism everytime? For some reason Fascist states seem to trump EuroSocialism in the eyes of most libertarian members. =/

Good question.

I have two answers.

Firstly, I see freedom is being all inclusive. I see a libertarian as something that is free. Therefore they must be economically free, and individually free. One without the other, cannot be free. They would simply be partially free.

On an individual level, which explains why I vote the way I do in American elections. Quite simply, economic matters mean much more than individual matters. I'm not gay. I don't plan on having an unwanted pregnancy. Therefore bitng the bullet on the positions doesn't hurt that much compared to the alternative. I would much rather have lower taxes and more economic freedom.

 

[ShannonCT]

Why is it to most Libertarians that economic conservatism seems to trump social liberalism everytime? For some reason Fascist states seem to trump EuroSocialism in the eyes of most libertarian members. =/

Maybe because the economy effects everyone while social issues tend to focus on specific groups: gays, women, minorities, etc.

 

[Mise]

Who the hell is Nancy Pelosi? You don't even say anything about her, what she's done to deserve being worse than two of the worst mass murderers the world has ever known, what she stands for (other than "accusing" her of being a feminist), why you oppose her (other than calling yourself a libertarian and calling her Pol pot), or any kind of topic to discuss here. I'd rather spend 2 minutes writing this post in the hopes that next time you start a thread it will at least have something to discuss than to spend 10 minutes on google simply trying to find out what the hell you're talking about.

 

[theimmortal1]

Mise:


Do not fault me because YOU have to google something. If you do not know who she is, or what she stands for, or cannot add to the thread without bashing me; then simply do not respond or open the thread. Its quite simple. This thread was not meant to educate you. This thread was part satire and part trying to discuss Nancy Pelosi as House Speaker. If you cannot grasp that concept, or are not willing to do what you have to do in order to; then please hit the X in the corner of your browser and kindly leave. Thank you.

 

[greenpeace]

Mise:


Do not fault me because YOU have to google something. If you do not know who she is, or what she stands for, or cannot add to the thread without bashing me; then simply do not respond or open the thread. Its quite simple. This thread was not meant to educate you. This thread was part satire and part trying to discuss Nancy Pelosi as House Speaker. If you cannot grasp that concept, or are not willing to do what you have to do in order to; then please hit the X in the corner of your browser and kindly leave. Thank you.

Whether she knows anything about Nancy Pelosi or not, it doesn't matter because you have no logice or basis for your argument. All you are saying is "She is bad" or in other words "I don't have any argument or logical reasoning so in essence I'm wasting a bunch of time."

 

[Perfection]

This thread was part satire and part trying to discuss Nancy Pelosi as House Speaker. If you cannot grasp that concept

It's not that Mise can't grasp the concept, it's that you weren't presenting it in a coherant form. Don't chew people out because the way you presented yourself in the opening post was terrible.

 

[Leifmk]

Why is it to most Libertarians that economic conservatism seems to trump social liberalism everytime? For some reason Fascist states seem to trump EuroSocialism in the eyes of most libertarian members. =/

Libertarians seem to be mainly people who do not belong to any socially excluded or discriminated groups, and have (or think they have) the necessary abilities to prosper in a laissez-faire economy. At best, they are honest enough to at least admit that they really only care about their own good.

They fall into roughly two groups: The ones who actually are resourceful enough to prosper (these people prosper already, but think they -- and possibly most others as well -- would do even better with less "government interference") and the ones who delude themselves on this point (and blame their lack of prosperity on taxes, regulations, or whatever).

 

[TheVictor]

Mise is totally right after all. Immortal, no need to get freaked out. I know the Republicans lost the House but life goes on!

What I found most funny in this thread is this :

Slightly? Are you kidding me? These are some of the most far left people I've seen in my life, and I've lived in the Soviet Union for crying out loud!

 

[theimmortal1]

Apparently you didn't understand. I didn't realize that this was such a structured debate forum. Clearly this thread wasn't targeted for people that did not understand Nancy Pelosi's politics. If you are in over your head then leave. But I'll help you out


If you are some socialist then obviously you would love Nancy Pelosi. But like I said if you don't understand her politics then do not blame me.

I only educate for a fee. Check out wiki if you must.


If you had any common sense you could see why Nancy Pelosi would be bad for me. Shes big government, socialist, among other things. Im libertarian. If you cannot put 2 and 2 together then online forums may not be for you.

 

[theimmortal1]

Libertarians seem to be mainly people who do not belong to any socially excluded or discriminated groups, and have (or think they have) the necessary abilities to prosper in a laissez-faire economy. At best, they are honest enough to at least admit that they really only care about their own good.

They fall into roughly two groups: The ones who actually are resourceful enough to prosper (these people prosper already, but think they -- and possibly most others as well -- would do even better with less "government interference") and the ones who delude themselves on this point (and blame their lack of prosperity on taxes, regulations, or whatever).

The larger group would be the people that do not believe that anyone has a right to anyone elses property just because.

We are simply against the basic socialist slogan "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"...not because we are better or well off, but because we do not think I have any right to your labor/property. Just like you have no right to my labor. I am not your slave. You are not my slave.

 

[Perfection]

Apparently you didn't understand. I didn't realize that this was such a structured debate forum.

We're all sharks here, and the bigger ones eat the smaller ones for dinner (watch out for FredLC, he's a great white for chrissakes).

Clearly this thread wasn't targeted for people that did not understand Nancy Pelosi's politics.

Actually, you can't say clearly, because there wouldn't be such a wide misinterpretation if it was clear. Secondly, if this was targetted at those who understood Pelosi's policies completely wouldn't they already have formed an opinion and hence make the thread little more then a partisan pissing contest?

 

[Perfection]

We are simply against the basic socialist slogan "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"...not because we are better or well off, but because we do not think I have any right to your labor/property. Just like you have no right to my labor. I am not your slave. You are not my slave.

Not being a slave doesn't mitigate social responsibility. We do bear responsibility to help out society just as society bears responsibility to help us out.

 

[bhsup]

Like her nor not, come January she will become our new Speaker of the House of Representatives. Let's give her time to prove herself in this new position. As the minority leader, she had to be contrary, though I do think she took that way too far frequently, but as Speaker she has the chance to strike a different note now.

@Perfection: I actually agree with your last post. Society does indeed have a responsibility to help out. SOCIETY, not the federal government. Private charities, etc.