Is Russia part of Europe?

[u-gene]

Frankly? Russians do not care.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by Marla_Singer
European, you have to scale it down, you have to shrink it.

Russia is something between the Central Asia of the Tatars, the Chuvachs, the Bashkirs and the Europe of... well I guess christianism. It's been vastly europeanized thanks to Czars and Czarinas like Peter the Great or Catherine the Great. Central Asian influence of today's Russia are deeply ignored by most of people in here. You obviously considers the Tatars like some kind of subculture when it's not. Russia suffices on itself. Living in Iekaterinburg doesn't make of you someone more Asian and living in Samara doesn't make of you someone more European, you're simply Russian, and that's enough.

Central Asian influence really isn't that important. Russia is a Slavic nation, probably founded by Swedes and christianized by the Eastern Romans. The period of the "Tartar Yoke" didn't have much effect on Russian culture, since Mongol rule consisted mainly giving loads of power to the Chruch, making whatever Russian ruler that controlled the Grand Principality of Vladimir collect the tribute, and call the each ruler to pay homage in Sarai every so often. I've they didn't do the last two, the Mongols would do their barbaric thing...but they were never hands on, and there was virtually no cultural intergration.

That was probably not your point. It really serves me right for putting "European" instead of "Western"

 

[bxl13]

Russia is in the western influence. It's a part of NATO, and has a kinda democracy. It's also christian.

On the other hand, it's by itself. It's a new democracy, and has it's own arcitechture. I think architechure is a big part of cuture, like spain, which has muslim influences but is still a european country. Turkey is different because it's a important islamic country, and in the generally accepted area of the mideast and north africa, but it's also has european influences too. All 3 are a mix of cultures.

But the biggest reason that Russia is a European Nation is.........

It has european cities and palaces in CIVILIZATION !!

 

[Goober]

Russia is anything BUT fully democratic. And it is really more of a Mix between being Islamic, European, and Asian. I personally think of it as European, since most of the major Russian cities and population are "European" part of Russia.

 

[Gladi]

Bright Day

Ehm... Europe is only politico/sociological term.

Large parts of Russia may be outside of nowadays defined Europe and culturally different, but that may not be forever, they will be assimilated. Frankly I am federalist with imperialistic dreams and very much like Hakim's map.

Also there are many factors concerning being European/western. Not many countries fullfill them all.

I wanted to say something very smart but forgot what. Now I look very stupid.

Frankly. Does it matter? Last time I checked Russia was inhabeted by sentient beings descandet from primate proto-human who got his ass kicked by primate proto-ape.

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

Traditionally the Ural Mountains have been defined as the eastern most boundary of Europe. Therefor Russia is part of Europe. It would be snobbish and arrogant to claim that Europe is only France, Germany, UK, and Italy. That's just not right. Not only is it not right, it is wrong.

 

[Sims2789]

They are Europeans, but not part of the West.

 

[u-gene]

Originally posted by bxl13
Russia is in the western influence. It's a part of NATO, and has a kinda democracy. It's also christian.

Oh my God! We're in NATO! I didn't notice when they let us in.

 

[Goober]

RUSSIA as a part of NATO, the pact formed against the Soviets? Now THAT would be really ironic. Hehe, Russian peacekeepers in Afghanistan might get a slightly bad reaction.

 

[u-gene]

Actually, the Soviet Union was about to join the pact in the early 50s. What would have come out of that, if it had ever happened, I wonder...

 

[Gladi]

Bright Day

Finally get to post.

Real Gobber, U-gene--> Council NATO-Russia, at least that is what blx13 meant..

 

[Marla_Singer]

It's funny cause I'm actually reading a book right now that talks about it. Here's my (poor) translation of an excerpt.

"From Lenin to Ben Laden : The Great Revolt against Individualism", Pierre Clermont (2004).

In the 18th Century, Russia became part of the Great European Powers, and since then, Westerners get used to consider Russia as belonging to their world and their culture. Scared to be seen as oriental barbarians, Russians did everything to reinforce and spread such a reputation. But we must not forget that Russia is also the country of "Potemkine Villages" : the stunning façade given to western visitors of Russian elites, westernized, polished, aware of noble customs, of languages, of European culture, has always hidden the deep truth of the country.

It's impossible to reduce Russia to its European dimension. That country also have deep Asian roots. It has even been physically incorporated to Asia during two centuries and a half. The Russian State is deeply inspired of its Mongol invader, which is, by the way, the one which has given birth to Russia. Europe has never known a state organized in such a way. It's impossible to know well the Russian state without considering the Mongol rule at its roots. Ethnically, religiously and linguistically speaking, Russia belongs to Europe, but polically and structurally speaking it is deeply Central Asian. Of course Europe doesn't end at the East of Vienna like Metternich said in a joke, but it's sure Europe ends in Russia, and that that country never fulfilled completely the path to become an integrated member of it.

That's why, even if its elites have always attempted to give of Russia a European image, relations between the Western World and Russia had never been like if it was between two similar powers, based on a same culture and on same values and references. It's an external relationship, composed among different systems, and focused on two opposed feelings : Russia is deeply fascinated by the wealth, the power, the culture of the Western World ; however, Russia has always rejected its individualism, its capitalism, its liberalism. That's the reason why, since Peter the Great, Russian leaders have always dissociated these two aspects of the European civilization : the one they agree with and the one they don't agree with. And that's why Russia has always used the first one to fight better the second one.

 

[El Sop]

They must be European, since they play soccer within the european federation UEFA
Then again, so are Turkey, Israel, Ucraine, Georgia, Azerbaidjan, Armenia and I guess a few other former Soviet republics It´s one big happy family.

 

[Rheinmetall]

I think Russia west of Urals is part of europe. It is so whether europeans feel russia is part of europe or not or russians feel they are part of europe or not. It's hard to define Europe culturally because there are so many different cultures in here.

 

[Free Enterprise]

A fairly large chunk of Russia is in the European continent. Over 50% of the population resides there also. The Eastern border of Europe is around the Ural region. The southern part of Russia in the Caucasia region is in Europe also. The population has many of the traits that define "Europeaness" however not all of them.

Btw, a part of western Kazakhstan is in Europe.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Originally posted by Free Enterprise
A fairly large chunk of Russia is in the European continent. Over 50% of the population resides there also.

This is exactly the point I disagree on. Europe doesn't end at the Ural. We simply can't consider Europe goes so Eastern. Ural is in the middle of Central Asia. Europe isn't the continent of steppes and taïgas it would be if it really ended at the Ural Mounts. I disagree.

If we consider Europe ends at the Ural, that would mean half of Europe is occupied by Russia. That would put the center of Europe in Belarus. Europe is simply a peninsula with a blurry border on the East.

I must say by the way that it's not geographers who decided to officialy end Europe at the Caspian Sea, it has been considered this way by politicians. We must really be careful before considering European eastern borders as so clearly defined.

 

[u-gene]

@Marla_Singer
Is that really so important to draw exact borders of Europe? What for?

You put it right by saying that Russia has long existed on its own rejecting Europe's principles of individualism or whatever. But at the same time Russia has never been welcome in Europe as well, probably with few exceptions in history.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Originally posted by u-gene
@Marla_Singer
Is that really so important to draw exact borders of Europe? What for?

That was exactly my point. European borders are blurry, especialy on the East, and we must accept them as blurry.

 

[IglooDame]

Originally posted by Drunk Master
The border of the western world is the border of the christian world with the islamic and orthodox world.

There has been a historical devide between these cultures sice the division of the roman empire in the 4th century. And the beginning of the holy roman empire in the 10th century.

This devision has been in the same place for roughly 5 centuries.

Europe stops where western christianity stops and islam and orthodox religions begin.

Which means that Europe stops in... Australia and the Americas?

 

[u-gene]

Originally posted by Marla_Singer
That was exactly my point. European borders are blurry, especialy on the East, and we must accept them as blurry.

Accepted.