Is there still racism in Europe?

[phoenix_night]

Originally posted by G-Man
Sorry.

But why isn't it racist?

Disliking Christians?

Because racism is to hold an opinion of, or discriminate against a race of people based on their race. Christians aren't a race of people.

Therefore, it's not racist.

 

[SanPellegrino]

Originally posted by Mario Feldberg


In which Germany do you live? The one on Mars?! Really check any German internet forum. Most Germans are strongly anti-Israel just like most other Europeans.

not true to my experience. as you stated before Muslims aren't appreciated very much, so the mideast conflict is more a "west-muslim world" conflict to many people.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by phoenix_night
Disliking Christians?

Because racism is to hold an opinion of, or discriminate against a race of people based on their race. Christians aren't a race of people.

Therefore, it's not racist.

The word racism comes from discrimination against a race, but it's meaning has changed since. Do you have a better term to describe such a thing?

 

[Mario Feldberg]

not true to my experience. as you stated before Muslims aren't appreciated very much, so the mideast conflict is more a "west-muslim world" conflict to many people.

Do you really live in Germany?

 

[phoenix_night]

Originally posted by G-Man
The word racism comes from discrimination against a race, but it's meaning has changed since. Do you have a better term to describe such a thing?

No, it's meaning hasn't changed. If it's not a race of people, it's not racist.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by phoenix_night


No, it's meaning hasn't changed. If it's not a race of people, it's not racist.

And what is a "race"? Today the word is used for any form of communal discrimination. Even official bodies use this term for such matters.

 

[phoenix_night]

Originally posted by G-Man
And what is a "race"? Today the word is used for any form of communal discrimination. Even official bodies use this term for such matters.

Rolleyes? Hmm.

The word is not used for any form of discrimination. At least not here, and this state contains the home of the English language.

Just because you can't think of a better word does not mean you should use a word that you believe is 'sort of similar' in its place. You can, but unless you comply with the official language people just won't understand you.

And race does not mean discrimination by the way.

 

[G-Man]

It's a term used all over the world, including by official bodies. If you haven't noticed it so far, I suppose you just need to watch more news. Just a small example:

"
United Nations Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination

...

Article 1

Discrimination between human beings on the ground of race, colour or ethnic origin is an offence to human dignity and shall be condemned as a denial of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations, as a violation of the human rights and fundamental freedoms proclaimed in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, as an obstacle to friendly and peaceful relations among nations and as a fact capable of disturbing peace and security among peoples. "

 

[phoenix_night]

Originally posted by G-Man
It's a term used all over the world, including by official bodies. If you haven't noticed it so far, I suppose you just need to watch more news. Just a small example:

"
United Nations Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination

...

Article 1

Discrimination between human beings on the ground of race, colour or ethnic origin is an offence to human dignity and shall be condemned as a denial of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations, as a violation of the human rights and fundamental freedoms proclaimed in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, as an obstacle to friendly and peaceful relations among nations and as a fact capable of disturbing peace and security among peoples. "

Yes. It is used in official documents.

But race does not mean discrimination (see: 'Discrimination between human beings on the ground of race', not simply the word race).

And also: This has nothing to do with the religion or your argument that apparently Christians are a race and 'officials' treat them as such.

What a bloody pointless post.

The definition of the word race still hasn't changed and Christians still aren't race.

 

[SanPellegrino]

Originally posted by Mario Feldberg


Do you really live in Germany?

natürlich. it seems you and I met different kind of people. I live in the Rhein-Ruhr Area. many muslims live here and there are a lot of problems, mistakes made by both sides. but anti-semitism is not an issue.

 

[Benderino]

Originally posted by G-Man


The word racism comes from discrimination against a race, but it's meaning has changed since. Do you have a better term to describe such a thing?

Yes, prejudism. You can be prejudist against Christians (which is still just as bad as racism) however, I think when talkinga bout the Jews, it is racism. The Jewish people are a race.

 

[The Yankee]

Even people converting to Judaism?

Whoa! Geez.....the sky just turned red! Scared the hell out of me for a second!

 

[Mario Feldberg]

natürlich. it seems you and I met different kind of people.

Yes, probably.

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
I am routinesly told, by their polictical opponents, that all the tens of thousands of members of the right wing parties in these and other European countires are rabid racists.

I am a member of a right wing political party (VVD) is racist, it is utter nonsense!

But the last 5 years it has become more accepted to tell the truth on certain taboos.

The Netherlands do have a cultural / racial social problem. We have a 4% muslim minority: half turkish, half arab. Especially this Arabian (Moroccan) part of our population (2%) is causing a great deal of criminal activities. Also, the average Arab view on typical Dutch liberal acheivements can be annoying (an Imam saying homosexuality is a transportable disease....).

Two years ago, in Holland the star of Pim Fortuyn began to rise. In an interview in the "Volkskrant", a slightly to the left quality paper he said: the muslim culture is backward.

Saying such a thing in Holland was absolutely 'not done'. But, when regarding things like the position of women in our society, views on homosexuality and religious fatalism (saying it was Allah's will after a brutal murder), I really wonder if it is so wrong to conclude the muslim culture is backward. Especially since mr Fortuyn said the backwardness of the 2002 muslim culture could be very well compared with the backwardness of the Dutch severe protestant and catholic areas, only 30 - 40 years ago.

Today, the average Dutchman, from right to left, more or less thinks that the tolerance towards other cultures within The Netherlands, should be limited on certain topics. It is my view we should be tolerant on anything except intolerance.

Before being able to solve the troubles caused by many young Moroccans, we should realize that these youngsters are kind of trapped between backward old-fashioned domestic rules and a modern, liberal culture on the Dutch streets.
Denying the backwardness of the muslim culture will never ever help solve the problems!

As you can read, I do think the muslim / Arab culture is backward. That does not make me a racist! I simply can't accept some of the extremely views that derive from this culture.

Racism is about something else. The rising antisemitism in Europe is caused by....... the rising number of Arab immigrants. Food for thougth huh?

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by phoenix_night


Yes. It is used in official documents.

But race does not mean discrimination (see: 'Discrimination between human beings on the ground of race', not simply the word race).

And also: This has nothing to do with the religion or your argument that apparently Christians are a race and 'officials' treat them as such.

What a bloody pointless post.

The definition of the word race still hasn't changed and Christians still aren't race.

Race doesn't mean discrimination, but racism does. I do not argue that christians are a race, I argue that religioon based discrimination is still considered racism.

 

[phoenix_night]

Originally posted by G-Man
Race doesn't mean discrimination, but racism does. I do not argue that christians are a race, I argue that religioon based discrimination is still considered racism.

No, it's not.

Originally posted by Benderino
Yes, prejudism. You can be prejudist against Christians (which is still just as bad as racism) however, I think when talkinga bout the Jews, it is racism. The Jewish people are a race.

That's about right.

Except: Prejudiced.

 

[Yago]

Where I live, I say racism exists, but doens't make you go far. You better shut your mouth about that. Anti-islam feelings aren't wide-spread either here. But there is rampant xenophiba in some quarters, particularly when you can do it with an anonymous vote.

Anti-Semitism doesn't exist either in a big manner. But again European-wide, Anti-judaism is deeply embedded in protestantism and catholicism. Both churches have a certain history and it was the fertile soil, where later anti-semitism flourished.

A related but different matter is xenophobia. It is a problem and traditionally here it's directed versus the people from the neighbouring countries, Germans, Italians, French, Austrians and Yugoslavians. (he, he read a add from the right-wing party in the paper yesterday, want to go to the EU ? Want Germans and Italians messing in our affairs ? Think twice !)

France, which was mentioned, has one of the biggest problems. They have a lot of Algerians in their country, but their anti-muslim attitude is sometimes rampant and causes a lot a lot of problems. As long the middle-easterns are not integrated (and that also means the other French have to accept them) there will be trouble.

What really frightens me are East-Europeans. Maybe I am xenophobic here to a part. But I have the feeling, the east-bloc countries (inclusive East-Germany) where under a fridge for 5 decades and didn't develop and they often show a ugly face from the past. I was in Poland, Cracow, and that's the first time in my live where I've experienced complete open and unashamed anti-semitism (from those who spoke English, I do not speak Polish).

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by Benderino


Yes, prejudism. You can be prejudist against Christians (which is still just as bad as racism)

No! I strongly disagree! People choose to be religious. People cannot choose their race. Therefor prejudism against christians is not even half as bad as prejudism against people of a certain race.

Still prejudism is wrong. Christians come in almost as much types as there are christians. So judging one christian on the behaviour of the 'average christian' is wrong. But, imo, not as wrong as prejudism on race.

 

[Darkness]

Originally posted by Mario Feldberg

Most Germans are strongly anti-Israel just like most other Europeans.

You obviously have no idea what your talking about....
The people you are talking about are always but small parts of a nations population.

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by Mario Feldberg


In which Germany do you live? The one on Mars?! Really check any German internet forum. Most Germans are strongly anti-Israel just like most other Europeans.

Please shut up Mario! Your blatant nonsense is quite annoying.