Discussion in 'RFC mod-mod: Classical World' started by The Turk, Apr 18, 2017.
Is anyone working on this mod anymore?
I now have more free time, and I would like to implement a few ideas I have in my mind:
- Add new civs (Greek city states, a Germanic civ, and a Scythian civ which will have the option to play either as the Scythians or the Massagetae or the Sarmatians)
- Implement nomadic mode for steppe-civs
- Re-work civics, and introduce new ones
- Buff some areas in the map (eg. Britain is too poor at the moment)
At the moment I am reading tutorials, but I will start coding soon. I will let everyone know when I am ready
May I suggest something. Don't add more to this game, it is already bloated. The problem with it is that it is unbalanced (historically speaking), and there are still many broken components of this game. There is even a shortage of city names for certain areas of the map (eastern Iran, from memory). I would add more depth to what is already existing, rather than more breadth.
Because it is historically imbalanced, I will introduce these civs. I may remove a few (maccabees for example are a strong candidate). Scythians and Germans are so needed, in my opinion.
Though I don't like the game to be 100% historically accurate. My ideal mod follows the path of the civilization up to a point, and then it turns to a "what if" game. For example, what if Rome had survived the barbarian invasion? What if the Arabs had conquered Constantinople, etc. So, I would like to include 2 UHVs that imitate the history of that civ, and then include a 3rd "what if" UHV.
I agree that the city name map needs work, we can all begin working on this project!
I agree it doesn't need to be perfectly historically accurate or balanced, provided it's better for gameplay that it isn't. Although I do think some civs are good enough to play based on historical UHVs - would you really want to play Rome all the way from 276BC to 500AD? If you want to do Rome vs the barbarians perhaps another civ for the WRE?
But I would say it's more important to fix or remove the broken components of the game (CTDs, multiple Christianities, unit balance, tech and civics etc) than to go trying to add new civs and modes.
Make sure the base of the mod is solid so you are building on stone not on sand, else you will risk ending up like srpt - constantly finding new problems to fix and ending up giving up.
To clarify a few things, I am not officially taking over from Srpt.
I just want to create my own modmodmod, to include things that I would love to see in-game.
For this reason, I will add my ideas from an earlier stable version, and not with the latest (the one with the new tech tree).
Regarding Rome, I will make sure that the player will have a reason to play up untill the dawn of the dark age. For example, I want to include the crisis of the 3rd century (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_the_Third_Century), where the player will have to take back his lost regions without suffering a severe stability penalty that could lead him to collapse.
Can you create unplayable civs? It would be really cool to see the emergence of Gallia in the West and the Palmyran Empire in the East. They don't last long, but they were massive in scale. I'm surprised the Crisis of the Third Century hasn't been added to this mod in some fashion.
That sounds good to me - reducing the number of things added without being balanced will definitely make the mod more stable and effective going forwards.
Yep, I think you can. Srpt had implemented it for a few barbarian nomads, so I think I can make it work! I agree that it is important to be included, and it adds a a great challenge for the Roman player.
Exactly my point
I'm sure you can - original RFC has the ERE as an unplayable civ in the 600AD scenario and DOC has the Seljuks as an unplayable civ always at war with all others.
Good point! I will have a look at Rhye's code too then! At the moment I am studying RFC:Europe, SoI and Classical World codes
Rhye's code might be limited - IIRC the ERE was there but you couldn't do any diplomacy with them and once you DOWed on them it was permanent war. Hopefully good as a base, anyway!
Indeed. Whereas , in RFC:Europe the papal states was an unplayable civ that could interract with the player. This might be a feasible solution
But also couldn't DOW or be DOWed on.
I think there should be a way to combine the diplomacy of the Papal States with elements of the ERE from RFC and the Seljuks from DOW to achieve an unplayable civ that can interact and still play like a normal civ. Although I have almost no modding experience so not sure how to best achieve it!
Btw aren't the Hephalites present as a non playable permanent aggressive civ in CW already? And is Min Hue or Nan Yue not a fully complete non playable civ in CW? I'm sure there are versions where it spawns during the Han period but can't be selected for play. Also Zengid Emirate is a non playable civ in SOI. So it seems there should definitely be a way to adapt / port these ones to meet the needs of the modmodmod
You can make a civ playable in the scenario file. If a civ has the option PlayableCiv=1, it is playable for the human player. If you set the value to 0, it will be AI only. You can contact them. If you don't want to be able to have contact with them, you should make that civ a minor civ, which is done by MinorNationStatus=1. (Like independents)
Honestly this modmod needs anything else that more features right now: this mod needs to be polished and trimmed. I agree that Germanic civ and other civs are needed. it would be nice to have civ in Mali and Libya, but since AI is so broken, tech tree is broken, research is broken and diplomacy makes no sense these civs are second priority.
I will user an older, stable version. I agree that tech tree needs tuning, and my highest concern is the tech costs, that in my opinion are too expensive.
Another thing that needs tuning is inflation, I want to fix that too. Perhaps adding a few buildings will help the player and the AI with their treasury.
A building I would like to use is the slave market. It will add bonus and per each slave settled in the city; eg +5% and +5% per each slave.
Some African civs would be a great addition, I agree, but a serious brainstorming about UUs, UHVs, UBs etc has to done first.
Also Golden Ages are just way too powerfull. I was able to get one with Rome and during GA I built in every city library, researched 3 techs, got 10k cash and got few more GP and triggered second GA.
Another problem is that AI simply dont know what to do. Celtic civ is just too easy to destroy despite they have OP UU. Egypt that is hammer powerhouse also has a suprisingly weak military.
And final thing that irks me is that you cant lose contact and civs ever. If you happend to discover some Thai civ they keep spamming you diplomatic deals for rest of game that make no sense and are not beneficial. There are mods that if you dont see other civs units/border you lose contact in few turns. Most easiest to apply.
Great to see that someone is willing to get this mod into a better shape
I agree with everyone above, unfortunately srpt's latest updates didn't turn out too well...
I'm happy to help with advice if you are stuck somewhere! Just PM me if you have questions regarding code in RFCE. Might take your chances with SoI too, I'm fairly familiar with many parts of edead's code too.
I wouldn't advise the Papal States approach. It's actually a full civ, with special rules and exceptions set everywhere in the code sporadically.
I think there are at least 25-30 places in the .dll alone where some special check/rule is needed for it. In python it's way more, well in the hundreds for sure. (to be fair, a lot of them is connected to stuff which is RFCE-specific, like Crusades and special Religion rules)
Anyway, I think you should simply make them minor or unplayable civs instead.
Thanks a lot for your feedback AbsintheRed, I will certainly ask for your help.
I am not sure how to start though. Should I start from Srpt's most stable vesrion, and build from there, or should I start from Srpt's blank SoI project and copy-paste the parts that I am interested into?
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