The Pope is dead! Who is next?

[Valka D'Ur]

I am atheist too, as most posters here probably , but the pope is influential anyway. The fact we are talking about him proves it.

About the American pope thing it is understandable Canadians are annoyed, but the church is pretty sibylline, keep your friends close and your enemies closer and that kind of things. This pope is apparently left but not that left, so we will see some subtle continuous anti-Trump work, not too obvious so as not to scare right-wing Catholics (and Catholics tend to be pretty right-wing)

Avoiding direct confrontation is the way the Church survived through history. (With some exceptions as some warrior popes, the crusades and other little anecdotes)

I should clarify that it's mostly the Conservative Canadians who are annoyed at this particular pope's election. The Liberals generally seem okay with it. I usually vote for a different party, but since their leadership is up in the air right now (Jagmeet Singh resigned due to both losing his own seat and being an ineffective leader in general), I haven't heard much from anyone in the party.

And then there's this bizarre woman on one of my atheist groups on FB who insists the new pope is the antichrist because of some weird numerology thing. She's demanding I apologize to her for calling it nonsense.

There's not a shred of actual science involved in numerology, and she's not getting an apology.

Somebody needs to invent a time machine, go back 35-40 years, and prevent Carl Sagan from getting cancer. He was able to cut through the pseudoscientific BS that infested popular culture back then and reach more people with real science and critical thinking.

This comment is not directed at any particular posters, but I have noticed that there seem to more generally be a:

[something] derangement symptom where people can only automatically first consider a event in terms of that [something].

that [something] may be Donald Trump, Brexit, gay marriage or trans-rights or whatever.

I suspect that Robert Prevost was chosen for competence, rather than for any particular political stance.

There has always been at least some political element involved in the selection of a new pope, at least for some people.

Even if it's just a power play involving bribes such as happened when Rodrigo Borgia decided he wanted to be pope, there was still politics involved in it.

 

[EnglishEdward]

I suspect that any political element is quite minor and has much more to do with the internal workings of
the Roman catholic church and the preference of the cardinals, and that is not really visible to the laity.

And let us not go down the rabbit hole of the disgraceful Borgia pope.

 

[soundjata]

I suspect that Robert Prevost was chosen for competence, rather than for any particular political stance.

Competence to what?

There a political agenda behind everything of course. It would be naïve to think of "competence" as a quality detached from political realities.

For example I hired a new cat for its competences. Do you find this statement meaningful?
No because it does not say anything.
Now if I tell you my cat is competent at killing rodents you get the gist. And my political agenda too

 

[Snowygerry]

"Competence" in this case likely means not being a complete idiot or a raving madman, and that should be enough keep the Catholic Church in business for the next few decades..

The Pope is first of all the bishop of Rome after all..

The Secret Finances of the Vatican Economy

The Vatican, the smallest country in the world, has an economy shrouded in secrecy. Here are some little known facts that will give you a peek into the mysterious world of the Vatican's finances.

www.investopedia.com

The Vatican is the world's smallest country, with an economy that relies on a combination of donations, private enterprises, and investments to generate revenue.

 

[EnglishEdward]

There a political agenda behind everything of course.

That is what the Marxists said.

And it is nonsense.

There is no political agenda to me deciding whether to have a cup of coffee or a cup of tea in the morning.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Mmmm... isnt tea more English than coffee?

 

[Arakhor]

Big heart for the poor, not a fan of gay marriage or women in the church. Nothing to expect when it comes to homosexuals in the church and various abuse cases.

That's a workable compromise for me, not that I'm Catholic. If we can't have a socially progressive pope, we at least get one that remembers about other Biblical doctrines, e.g. charity, supporting the poor and needy, rejecting authoritarianism and so on.

There is no political agenda to me deciding whether to have a cup of coffee or a cup of tea in the morning.

There doesn't have to be, but if (say) you decide to drink more tea than coffee because you can get an ethical source for the first, that's a political stance.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I suspect that any political element is quite minor and has much more to do with the internal workings of the Roman catholic church and the preference of the cardinals, and that is not really visible to the laity.

And let us not go down the rabbit hole of the disgraceful Borgia pope.

Oh. Please.

As the character of Perchik says in Fiddler on the Roof when he asks Tevye's daughter to marry him (expressing it as a 'socio-economic relationship') and she questions whether marriage is political: "Everything's political."

Even the election of a new pope.

As for the Borgias, I enjoyed the Showtime TV series. Didn't like the other one much, since it decided to make <stuff> up with the ending. Cesare did not survive to become a conquistadore, thankyouverymuch.

There is no political agenda to me deciding whether to have a cup of coffee or a cup of tea in the morning.

Fortunately, the world economy and the military decisions that get made don't depend on what you drink in the morning. You, on the other hand, might have political motives in your decisions in this area.

I get snarked at now for still buying Chex cereal, since it's an American product and Canadians are boycotting American products these days. However, I choose to ignore that part of the boycott since it's something I can tolerate that doesn't send my glucose levels rollercoastering and it's still affordable.

I have made other political decisions about my food choices, however.

 

[soundjata]

That is what the Marxists said.

And it is nonsense.

There is no political agenda to me deciding whether to have a cup of coffee or a cup of tea in the morning.

And you are also no pope so...
What are you proving?

You dislocated my logic and I will be kind enough to reconstruct it one more time just for you:
-You say competences (from the pope) can be free of political agendas. (like for example a reaction to the orange menace, as it was reasonably supposed in the discussion you derailed)
-I answer that from the point of view of those who hire the pope (the cat) ; "competences" are catalysts for a goal, a vision, a policy. This is the hard and cold reality of recruitment.
-You say you drink a cup of coffee & tea in the morning. Dude what

 

[amadeus]

I’m going to agree with @EnglishEdward that the selection of the new pontiff had little to do with American politics.

Otherwise, John Bright was right.

 

[Ordnael]

And then there's this bizarre woman on one of my atheist groups on FB who insists the new pope is the antichrist because of some weird numerology thing.

To be atheist and believe in the Antichrist!
I am reminded of some quote I found on the internet in the lines of "We are vegans, we eat meat...yes we exist"

Somebody needs to invent a time machine, go back 35-40 years, and prevent Carl Sagan from getting cancer. He was able to cut through the pseudoscientific BS that infested popular culture back then and reach more people with real science and critical thinking.

Living, Carl Sagan would be now "crucified" be the media landscape in each extreme! Or worst cancelled!

 

[Kyriakos]

Why do you ask? Just curious...

Out of great reverence for the catholic church and its infallible representative of god, of course.

 

[Ordnael]

My small and very irrelevant take from this thread and other elsewhere related comments, not necessarily from just CFC:
When society makes mocking Catholicism and parading your atheism as fashionable nuances to your personality, you are bound to read distasteful posts online and sometimes even live.
I am not an exemplary sheep, way far from it, my doubts are too much and God seems too distant to me at times.
But I do not make mocking Catholicism and atheism virtue signalling on my persona.
To each it's own!
Seems to me that it's mainstream to be a jerk when commenting about Catholicism, but if you do the same about Islam you get cancelled! And I am all for freedom of expression even if I don't like or agree with opposing views.
I don't like it! And my vote will reflect it!

 

[Kyriakos]

My small and very irrelevant take from this thread and other elsewhere related comments, not necessarily from just CFC:
When society makes mocking Catholicism and parading your atheism as fashionable nuances to your personality, you are bound to read distasteful posts online and sometimes even live.
I am not an exemplary sheep, way far from it, my doubts are too much and God seems too distant to me at times.
But I do not make mocking Catholicism and atheism virtue signalling on my persona.
To each it's own!
Seems to me that it's mainstream to be a jerk when commenting about Catholicism, but if you do the same about Islam you get cancelled! And I am all for freedom of expression even if I don't like or agree with opposing views.
I don't like it! And my vote will reflect it!

That is true, but despite being agnostic, if I had used christianity (instead of catholicism) a certain rhyme of my post would be lost.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Is there anything that can be read out of his choosing Leo as his name? Is there some previous Leo who is famous for one kind of initiative or another during his papacy?

I suppose I could go Wiki all of the previous Leos and see what I find, but surely somebody better informed has done that work more efficiently than I could.

 

[Samson]

Is there anything that can be read out of his choosing Leo as his name? Is there some previous Leo who is famous for one kind of initiative or another during his papacy?

I suppose I could go Wiki all of the previous Leos and see what I find, but surely somebody better informed has done that work more efficiently than I could.

"They" are saying it is associated with progresives:

In choosing the name Leo, Prevost has signified a commitment to dynamic social issues, according to experts.

The first pontiff to use the name Leo, whose papacy ended in 461, met Attila the Hun and persuaded him not to attack Rome. The last Pope Leo led the Church from 1878 to 1903 and wrote an influential treatise on workers' rights.

Former Archbishop of Boston Seán Patrick O'Malley wrote on his blog that the new pontiff "has chosen a name widely associated with the social justice legacy of Pope Leo XIII, who was pontiff at a time of epic upheaval in the world, the time of the industrial revolution, the beginning of Marxism, and widespread immigration".

 

[pigswill]

This may come as a surprise to some Americans but there's a lot of the world that isn't the USA and the Pope is head of the worldwide Catholic Church. The idea that Pope Leo XIV was appointed just to spite Trump seems both absurd and arrogant to me.

 

[Evie]

Maybe before blabbing your mouth off about the people who think this is a rebuke of Trump (and general MAGA-conservatism) and how it's all American arrogance, you might want to look at the location clearly displayed right under our user names next to our posts.

I'm Canadian, so's Valka, Thorgalaeg is Spanish...I think we KNOW how much of the world isn't the USA.

 

[Smellincoffee]

Well Vance is a devoted Catholic, so on the odd chance that he gets to meet the Pope, I'm sure he'll enjoy being in audience with an English speaking Pope.

The last time Vance met the pope it ended in a new conclave.

Is there anything that can be read out of his choosing Leo as his name? Is there some previous Leo who is famous for one kind of initiative or another during his papacy?

I suppose I could go Wiki all of the previous Leos and see what I find, but surely somebody better informed has done that work more efficiently than I could.

When I asked the Catholic version of chatgpt that same question, it suggested that papal authority was a big thing with Leos. A trad group on facebook, on the other hand, insisted that Leos were famously associated with schisms and the rupture of reformation.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Thanks to Samson and Smellingcoffee for those answers.