Israeli Think Tank: Hezbollah used human shields.
- Thread starter Trajan12
- Start date
Did you even read the title and article, or just randomly googled "Israeli human shields"?
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Is this news?
Isn't the debate always about if we should bomb terrorist who hide behind civs or shouldn't?
Next up in the News, Osama Bin Laden not popular in the US.
plarq
Crazy forever
The comparison is faulty. Hezbollah doesn't possesses a think tank.
HannibalBarka
We are Free
More than 850 Lebanese, most of them civilians, were killed in Israeli airstrikes and artillery attacks during the 34-day war, which began after Hezbollah guerrillas captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid. The guerrillas bombarded northern Israel with nearly 4,000 rockets, killing 39 civilians. Also, 120 Israeli soldiers were killed in the violence
So if I trust the report, Israel killed 850 lebanese most of them civilian where Hezballah, killed 159 Israeli, most of them soldiers. Tsahal have always said that it make all it can to avoid civilian "collateral damage" as they call it. So it's either:
1. They are unskilled soldiers and should be better trained
or
2. They don't really do what they can to avoid civilian victims
So if I trust the report, Israel killed 850 lebanese most of them civilian where Hezballah, killed 159 Israeli, most of them soldiers. Tsahal have always said that it make all it can to avoid civilian "collateral damage" as they call it. So it's either:
1. They are unskilled soldiers and should be better trained
or
2. They don't really do what they can to avoid civilian victims
Gr3yL3gion
Voice of Madness
Well, Israeli can shoot those human shields too, if they think it's justified.
It's not like they haven't done it before, so why hold back?
It's not like they haven't done it before, so why hold back?
Rambuchan
The Funky President
That's as far as you need to go in order to realise that this is indeed worthless, totally partial, Israeli propaganda. It isn't even news.
What's next Trajan12? "Anti-Tobacco Industry Think Tank: Cigarettes Are Not Good For Your Health"....?
And Iran's. In terms of being proxies, you could almost say: "Americans use Israelis as Human Shields, in the same way Iran uses Hizbullah".
Oh please get your facts straight. Hizbullah participate in Lebanon's Parliament. They have a democratic mandate from the Shia population of Lebanon and have done since 1992. Indeed they have won seats in Lebanon's Parliament in 1992 (winning 12 out of 128 seats), 1996 (winning 10 seats), 2000 (winning 8), 2005 (winning 14 seats).
classical_hero
In whom I trust
The problem is that we really have no idea who are the actual militants amongst those civilians. The whole lot of them killed could be militia and thus Israel so far cannot be shown to have done anything wrong, becuse there are so many examples of Hezbollah using civilian site t conduct warfare, whereas Israels troop positions are clearly defined so thus there really should be no civilian casualties on Israel side.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
If Hezbollah also had those nifty laserguided devices, you might have a point. Instead they have the point-in-general-direction variety.
zenspiderz has said that Hezbollah should be an example for all of us. He's not "people", but rather just one person.
This goes little in the way to disprove anything of how Hezzbollah are an interesant party with a military force stronger than the national army of the country it is a part of and goes even less as to prove why the Hezzbollah should still have a right to exist. You see, even if the Human Shield article is pure propaganda - which it surely isn't - then that leaves Hezzbollah with a choice between two options:
Hezzbollah aren't a part of the official government of Lebanon and incited a war as part of a non-democratic move to attempt and damage Israel as much as possible by not abiding to Lebanese democratic principles, and as such they're a destabilizing agent to a peaceful democracy and should be declared an international terrorist organization and disbanded - as the war is entirely their fault, and not Israel's - or at the very least sanctioned and thrown the hell out of politics to enable the moderates to sieze power and have a normal government;
or
Hezzbollah acted against Israel in its formal position as part of the Lebanese government and the acts of agression against Israel are a casus belli against the Lebanese government and people for an uncalled for act of agression since the May 2000 pullout, which would justify the entire reaction of the IDF to the Lebanese agression as it was a clear case of all-out war between two nations, in which the deliberate targeting of infrastructure is a valid choice, which means the Hezzbollah and entire Lebanese government are destablizing agents in the middle east and as such should be disbanded or at the very least sanctioned - as the war is their collective fault - and thrown out of politics to enable more reasonable people to sieze power and have a more reasonable government.The third possible option is that the Hezzbollah are relying on the west to be too cowardly to see either of the two options, and will thus prefer to maintain a low profile until the whole thing blows over and they can enjoy the twilight situation of being the ruling party of a country de facto by using their right hand, armed with assault rifles and long range rockets, and be considered a legitimate organizaiton by the EU because of their political status on their left hand.
Israeli propaganda or not, the first two conclusions are something that the west has to draw from the entire 2006 conflict. It is as inevtiable as the conclusions are logical.
Then please, kind sir, re-read the title and restate your opinion in light of Israel banning the use of that practice over four years ago, whereas the Hezzbollah is being accused of said use not five months ago without an active declaration on a ban on it.
Rambuchan
The Funky President
I'm sorry, but did you read the part of your post that I bolded? Your claim that they are "a non-democratic organization" is what I was disproving. Whilst being a militant organisation in part, they are also a social/parliamentary entity. Elements of the Lebanese electorate vote for them to fight you guys, as well as to deliver social welfare and policy debate in Lebanon's Parliament. That's what I was clearing up, because your posts didn't seem to account for that. But now you're shifting the goal posts to something else and once again ignoring this other side of Hizbullah's reason for being. If you recognise that distinction between their different arms, you'll see why I'm not agreeing with your bullish view of them below.
Thrown out of government? Really? I thought you advocated democracy. What about all those folk who vote for them to deliver social welfare projects, which they actually do, however much you wish to turn a blind eye? I guess they should be excluded from the democratic process because they don't suit your world view and desires, despite the social/parliamentary nature of their non-militant arm. That, to me, smells distinctly like double standards and an anti-democratic position to take.
Also, perhaps you didn't consider that many of those who vote for Hizbullah to sit in Lebanon's Parliament look to Israelis voting in folk like Sharon and Olmert to be warmongering strong men and think much the same as you have posted just here.
Whilst I agree that moderates should be assisted to take precendence in Lebanon's Parliament, for the sake of peace and stability, (a) Israel should realise that their foolhardy and callous actions, such as we saw this summer, only encourage and strengthen the radicals and (b) you need to appeal to the non-militant arm of Hizbullah to control the militants, because they are the ones who can do so, not Israelis, and also because Hizbullah are simply too strong a force in Lebanese politics to ignore. I do agree that Hizbullah should be manoeuvred towards reigning in their militant arm (in much the same way as Britain has done with the militant wings of the Sinn Fein/IRA, not through invasions and bombing campaigns) but to call for them to simply be thrown out of politics is hardly logical, hardly democratic, hardly constructive and isn't consistent with your general position taken in this thread - the lauding of democratic principles.
You say the West are too 'cowardly', which my comments above hopefully redefine as being 'reasonable' and 'accounting for all the facts'. But I say that Israel and the USA rely on the wider Arab world being too weak in the face of such a coalition, which more often than not cares little for the opinion of the international community.
PS.
Spoiler :
HannibalBarka
We are Free
No, we really have a clear idea that they were civilians, you may not want to accept it, but that is not going to change th efact that the vast majority of the victims on the lebanese side were civilians, and that the vast majority of the victims on the Israeli side were soldiers.
The Israeli Air Force launched more than 7,000 air attacks on about 7,000 targets in Lebanon between 12 July and 14 August, while the Navy conducted an additional 2,500 bombardments.(1) The attacks, though widespread, particularly concentrated on certain areas. In addition to the human toll an estimated 1,183 fatalities, about one third of whom have been children(2), 4,054 people injured and 970,000Lebanese people displaced
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE180072006
Tank_Guy#3
Lion of Lehistan
I don't know about that, but I do have a first hand account of an interrogation along those lines. American troops were questioning a German officer (Colonel I believe) if there were German units in the woods up ahead, the German refused to answer, so they strapped him to the front of a Stewart tank and drove through the woods and back through to American lines. Shortly thereafter, the Germans pulled out, as the Americans knew they were there.
Spoiler :
Hezbollah using human shields: DUH!!!
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
This is about Hezbollah (which is in Lebanon), and added to that I think you are reffering to palestinian terrorist organisations like Hamas or Islamic Jihad?
You're quote could have been: "Palestinians used as human shields: DUH!"
Tank_Guy#3
Lion of Lehistan
Meant to say Hezbollah. Sorry, I shall edit my previous post. Thank you for catching that.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
No problem, sorry to nitpick, work is slow 
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