Ithobaal I's Phoenician Civilization
- Thread starter pineappledan
- Start date
-
- Tags
- custom civ phoenicia
pineappledan
Deity
oh no!
Just to confirm, how many players, both major civs and city-states, were you using at the start of the game? Were you using the 43 civ DLL?
Just to confirm, how many players, both major civs and city-states, were you using at the start of the game? Were you using the 43 civ DLL?
It was 8 Players and 16 City States (I think? The standard amount for 8 Players). I was using the standard non 43 Civ Version. It probably doesn't matter but Phoenicia was played by an AI and not by me.
pineappledan
Deity
Were you on the most recent patch? 3.6? There’s something quite seriously wrong with this new version
Yes it was on 3.6. I also noticed that Phoenicia was using their merchant prince for a diplomatic action instead of building an embassy very early (must have been their first or second diplomat) on, despite many embassy slots still being open. I don't know if that's intended tho
pineappledan
Deity
The AI can’t build land improvements of any kind, including embassies in 3.6
It’s a very busted version
It’s a very busted version
igloo hong
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2022
- Messages
- 2
As of the latest version, 3.6.2, settled cities do not convert into city states. This was on the non-43 version, 8 players and 16 city states.
Little Billy
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2021
- Messages
- 37
I finally got around to trying this civ, love the concept!
Ill just post some notes here in case you want some data and thoughts
Starting Settings:
Large map
10 civs, 20 city states
Map: communitu_79 or whatever the "standard" vp map is called these days
Immortal
no 4UC
What I ended up with:
CV on turn 311
Tradition/Statecraft (duh)/Industry/Freedom
19 "manufactured" city states. 3 from conquest, 16 from settlers, only one of which got conquered
14 embassies
25 city state allies
28 trade route slots, but I got 3 of those within the last 10 turns
Comments in no particular order:
At this point I have a sample size of 1 game. Take this with a grain of salt.
The city state founding mechanic is the most hilariously fun thing to use. Finally, I can get back at the AI for all of those garbage cities they settled next to me by settling even more garbage cities next to them!
Much talk has been made recently about how OP Austria is with marriages and shutting everyone else out of the world congress. This felt very similar to that experience in human hands. Austria can steal other people's city states and keep them forever, but I didnt really even care about that because I can just make more. At the end of the game there were still 4 more spots where I could have put cities down, and due to my extensive trade route network, I can keep most of them. In renaissance, I already had 5-6ish embassies, enough to shove my religion through the congress and pass almost anything else I wanted. (Although it didn't hurt that I gave Germany my religion too)
It feel like this could be easily countered by a human opponent. Whats Phoenicia going to do if I start conquering his city states? Fight me? Assuming Sur itself does not border me, a 1 city civ cant make much of an army to project force. The city states themselves are such incompetent tacticians that all I would have to do is wait for them to impale themselves on my defenses and then go conquer them. In this game, Pacal declared war on me, was surrounded on 3 sides by my city state allies, and managed to fight them all off before I got involved. How much more could a human do against that?
Put together I would say this balances out. If you can make it to the endgame you have an insurmountable vote advantage, but your way there is very brittle. Like tradition in general, but pushed further.
Putting a city state between you and someone else appears to be the most effective way to get them to like you. Shaka hated my guts until I forward settled his capital, and then he was my best buddy until he got wrecked in a 3 way war.
I will probably turn off the barbarian city state invasion quest the next time I play as Phoenicia. I had barbarians on my borders and plundering my trade routes almost constantly from classical to about renaissance. It made trade routes basically unusable until the quests stopped appearing.
This has already been discussed to death in the spy thread, but spies hit tall civs like Phoenicia really hard. Losing a third of your science for 20 turns is a massive hit and there's nothing you can do about it.
Military supply felt fine. My capital was enormous all game and assuming I could make the units in the first place, supply was not going to be a problem for defensive purposes.
No bugs as far as I could tell, and everything worked as I expected it to
All in all, this has the potential to be one of my favorite civs to play as. Unique and the game goes by quick due to lack of micromanagement.
Ill just post some notes here in case you want some data and thoughts
Starting Settings:
Large map
10 civs, 20 city states
Map: communitu_79 or whatever the "standard" vp map is called these days
Immortal
no 4UC
Spoiler The largest city I think I've ever made, twice as big as the next most populous :
What I ended up with:
CV on turn 311
Tradition/Statecraft (duh)/Industry/Freedom
19 "manufactured" city states. 3 from conquest, 16 from settlers, only one of which got conquered
14 embassies
25 city state allies
28 trade route slots, but I got 3 of those within the last 10 turns
Comments in no particular order:
At this point I have a sample size of 1 game. Take this with a grain of salt.
The city state founding mechanic is the most hilariously fun thing to use. Finally, I can get back at the AI for all of those garbage cities they settled next to me by settling even more garbage cities next to them!
Spoiler Exhibits A, B and C :
Much talk has been made recently about how OP Austria is with marriages and shutting everyone else out of the world congress. This felt very similar to that experience in human hands. Austria can steal other people's city states and keep them forever, but I didnt really even care about that because I can just make more. At the end of the game there were still 4 more spots where I could have put cities down, and due to my extensive trade route network, I can keep most of them. In renaissance, I already had 5-6ish embassies, enough to shove my religion through the congress and pass almost anything else I wanted. (Although it didn't hurt that I gave Germany my religion too)
It feel like this could be easily countered by a human opponent. Whats Phoenicia going to do if I start conquering his city states? Fight me? Assuming Sur itself does not border me, a 1 city civ cant make much of an army to project force. The city states themselves are such incompetent tacticians that all I would have to do is wait for them to impale themselves on my defenses and then go conquer them. In this game, Pacal declared war on me, was surrounded on 3 sides by my city state allies, and managed to fight them all off before I got involved. How much more could a human do against that?
Put together I would say this balances out. If you can make it to the endgame you have an insurmountable vote advantage, but your way there is very brittle. Like tradition in general, but pushed further.
Putting a city state between you and someone else appears to be the most effective way to get them to like you. Shaka hated my guts until I forward settled his capital, and then he was my best buddy until he got wrecked in a 3 way war.
I will probably turn off the barbarian city state invasion quest the next time I play as Phoenicia. I had barbarians on my borders and plundering my trade routes almost constantly from classical to about renaissance. It made trade routes basically unusable until the quests stopped appearing.
This has already been discussed to death in the spy thread, but spies hit tall civs like Phoenicia really hard. Losing a third of your science for 20 turns is a massive hit and there's nothing you can do about it.
Military supply felt fine. My capital was enormous all game and assuming I could make the units in the first place, supply was not going to be a problem for defensive purposes.
No bugs as far as I could tell, and everything worked as I expected it to
All in all, this has the potential to be one of my favorite civs to play as. Unique and the game goes by quick due to lack of micromanagement.
Little Billy
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2021
- Messages
- 37
A couple other things I forgot to put in the above post:
I would also recommend making the resting influence 70 instead of 65. At 65, hostile temperament city states give me a notification every turn for "losing grasp on this city state". Or Ithobaal's resting influence should actually be 65, instead of his influence just being reset to 65 every turn, which feels pretty janky.
Ithobaal's leader portrait has his arm go way out over some of his UI info. Great picture, but maybe mirror it?
I would also recommend making the resting influence 70 instead of 65. At 65, hostile temperament city states give me a notification every turn for "losing grasp on this city state". Or Ithobaal's resting influence should actually be 65, instead of his influence just being reset to 65 every turn, which feels pretty janky.
Ithobaal's leader portrait has his arm go way out over some of his UI info. Great picture, but maybe mirror it?
pineappledan
Deity
Thanks for the feedback!
Exciting new developments coming down the pipe for this civ. Stay tuned
Exciting new developments coming down the pipe for this civ. Stay tuned
pineappledan
Deity
update is live:
- UA now increases resting influence by 60 when settling a new city-state (70 with UCS installed)
- Bireme now a Galley replacement
- Bireme has +1 base movement and gains XP from scouting
- Habiru now gains double heal from pillaging tiles instead of full heal.
- UA now increases resting influence by 60 when settling a new city-state (70 with UCS installed)
- Bireme now a Galley replacement
- Bireme has +1 base movement and gains XP from scouting
- Habiru now gains double heal from pillaging tiles instead of full heal.
Something went wrong with the Bireme. It doesn't really replace the galley, you have to produce a galley and then you can upgrade it to a bireme immediatly. But the Bireme doesn't upgrade into a trireme. Instead you can upgrade it indefinitely without anything happening
pineappledan
Deity
just uploaded a fix
pineappledan
Deity
New version posted with some new DLL functionality.
Code:
Increased the resting influence back up to 65 (silences a notification every turn)
Added a new argument to the free city revolt mechanic that flags cities as being self-founded, as opposed to being originally Phoenician cities.
- Phoenician AI will no longer identify these cities as breakaway cities and try to recapture them
- Allows Phoenicia to liberate them if conquered
- Prevents other civs from being able to capture/liberate them back to Phoenicia
- credit to Recursive for the backend DLL work to enable this functionality
jarcast2
Janitor Raccoon
Something curious happened in my game that I think it's worth of notice: a Phoenician City State has been liberated and it returned to the civ instead of remaining a CS (Birut in the picture) so now Phoenicia has 2 cities (plus 2 nearby CS).
EDIT: Also now I keep getting every turn the notification the city was liberated, lol
EDIT: Also now I keep getting every turn the notification the city was liberated, lol
Attachments
what terrain texture is it?
jarcast2
Janitor Raccoon
TarcisioCM's terrain texture modpack
Terrain texture modpack by TarcisioCM that I use. As few people asked me where to download it and the link in the related cfc thread is dead, I am re-uploading for anyone interested. To install it, extract the folder in "C:\Program Files...
forums.civfanatics.com
fahte
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2019
- Messages
- 12
Hi, for some reason Bireme doesn't show up for me in the game. I have Vox.Populi.3.6.2.
Curiously the same problem happens in Jarcast & pineappledan's Hittites too. All the other new civs I have look fine.
Could you please help? I really want to play this mod.
Curiously the same problem happens in Jarcast & pineappledan's Hittites too. All the other new civs I have look fine.
Could you please help? I really want to play this mod.
