Japan surrenders to eco-terrorists

then i guess you are ok with more people going hungry case there is no food.

I hardly think people are going to starve due to the lack of a whale hunt.

Which brings another point (that may or may not have been made). For all the regular meat comparisons, we don't tend to harvest wild animals in their natural environment as a food source. I guess fishing is a general exception, but even then there is a trend towards fish farms.
 
Kangaroo culls are probably the biggest example of an industrialised hunt, but they kinda need to be culled anyway on overpopulation grounds.
 
Which brings another point (that may or may not have been made). For all the regular meat comparisons, we don't tend to harvest wild animals in their natural environment as a food source. I guess fishing is a general exception, but even then there is a trend towards fish farms.
That is only because domesticating land animals or raising them in a controlled area is more efficient. If it wasn't, we would still be out hunting land animals in the natural habitat to get food. And we would have done the same with fish and whales if we could. In fact we are: That's the whole point of fish farming. Unfortunately, as we are seeing in Norway and Chile, it is much harder to control sea based creatures than land based ones.
 
Well, minke whales are smart enough and social enough such that killing them is probably perceived in a very painful way by both the direct victim and their family. If you have enough empathy to think it's wrong to chop the leg off of a cat (which is vastly less social, less internally aware, and less empathic towards themselves and others) then there should be some empathy to these whales.

They're carnivorous, so their meat is slightly less healthy than it could be. But their diet is awfully low in the food chain, so is quite a bit more healthy than most of the meat we'd eat.

Resolution of this issue requires something that we don't have, and something that (weirdly, to me) a lot of people agitate against. International governance of common resources. The organisation that monitors whale hunting is largely toothless and terribly political. Minke whales could be more social than us, and we'd still have a hard time regulating their hunting.

I have a hard time seeing how whale hunting would be feasible (economically) without large subsidies. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's where I think there'd be broad consensus amongst all political stripes. Currently, fishing (and related) subsidies are obviously a giant problem. They cause overharvesting, they cause wasteful resource use, and they consume tax dollars that need to go elsewhere.

If we could get people to give two small craps about fishing subsidies, moral issues like we see here would be a lot less prevalent. But, as we know, partisans bicker about things that won't change, and won't actually form cohesion to stop things that they both despise.
 
I don't eat mammalian carnivores. Carnivores are, on average, much smarter than herbivores.

Yeah, yeah, herbivores are dumb...

For all the regular meat comparisons, we don't tend to harvest wild animals in their natural environment as a food source. I guess fishing is a general exception, but even then there is a trend towards fish farms.

That's a pretty big exception. :rolleyes:

I half-agree with El Mac; we need some sort of international regulation on whaling and fishing in general to ensure we don't overharvest. But I don't buy into the "we shouldn't hunt whales 'cause they're cute/intelligent" argument. We eat other animals which also exhibit various degree of social interaction or intelligence, and often raised in far worse conditions then whales or fishes in the wild. Who are we to judge if an animal is "dumb" enough to be eaten. We have certain responsibilities as the species at the top of the food chain, but if you really want to spare animal suffering, go vegetarian.
 
thanks

Anyway, my main gripe is the subsidies. They're the low-hanging and obvious fruit, but we'd need some type of political consensus (on something I think most people agree on). These activists seem to have an easier time running a ship than others have getting the majority of people to give a bit of pressure to their politicians.

If the animals were less social, and if the harvesting was more humane (i.e., a quick death), I'd be more okay with it. I do think that understanding that there's a scale of suffering is important, because it distinguishes the different animals from each other. That said, I'm nearly a vegetarian anyway, for a number of reasons.
 
I think that is sadly what has happened to a great extent. Movies like "Free Willy" have drastically changed the perception that many people have towards whales. Yet many still visit places like Sea World in large numbers to watch captive whales perform tricks, while some even pay large sums of money to be able to swim with the more gentle captive female dolphins.

Public adoration of manatees has turned into the open harassment of them, as tour operators strive to give their paying customers the opportunity to violate the laws enacted to prohibit those very same abuses.


Link to video.
 
Considering male dolphins regularly engage in basically rape, those gentle female dolphins are probably less stressed swimming with adoring humans than out in the pod with the rest of the dolphins.
 
You got a source that documents this pervasive female dolphin rape problem, which is ostensibly so much worse than being groped by the paying public?

But I think we are now getting a very long way from the premise of the thread. If you really wish to discuss it, perhaps it would be better to start another thread. I was merely pointing out that "cuteness" does have a lot to do with how people now perceive whales and other sea mammals when compared to the past, and that it leads to a lot of contradictory actions.
 
You got a source that documents this pervasive female dolphin rape problem, which is ostensibly so much worse than being groped by the paying public?

You got a source that documents that "female dolphin rape" or "bring groped by the public" is a problem at all?


Anyway, I say bring back whale hunting for the oil. Hey, it could a renewable power source - very "green". :lol:
 
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