JB1 - Generic Random Deity

We gotta focus on the positives. I don't see any Musketmen in Persepolis, do you? ;)

Besideds, when the problem is we can't conquer that one civ fast enough, you know you've at least something right in the game.

I have no problems with the dotmap presented. Everything else is a tactical decision best left to Greebley. Happy hunting! :hammer:

Roster:
JustBen
Darkness
Kuningas
Greebley (up next)
T_McC (on deck)
 
Wow, I didn't think we could handle a Republic in our GA. Shows what I know. :rolleyes:

Another good set of turns Kuningas. :)

I'll second an agreement on the dot-map, I don't care about culturally pushing the snot out of Akkad, it'll be ours eventually. :devil2:

No need to buy PP, the only one who doesn't have it is Hammer, and he can't pay us anything for it. I think we only have 5 turns left on lone scientist. Greebley may want to consider buying another lux, so we can set lux tax to 0%.

Greebley gets to make the big decision: Do we keep Perseopolis? Since we are short on lux, and are going to build cathedrals in most cities, Sistine would be real useful. We'd also get some use out of the GW, since we don't know Metallurgy. Obviously, it would be capture, garrison with 1 unit, flip, re-capture, garrison with 1 unit, flip, re-capture and eliminate Persia. But we could use those wonders. This also directly impacts whether we want to buy Education from someone, to open up more tech from X-man in the peace. This is a gamble, he might not have anything beyond Education, and requires us to either let the Romans capture a city in our back lines, or allow Persia to live. If we keep Perseopolis, we can't make peace with X-man, and if we can't make peace with X-man, we don't have to raze any of his other cities. We just have to lightly garrison and be prepared to re-capture after flips. [Edit: I wondered if we had to consider the turn-order for the AI, in case a city flips would it be possible for lagging Roman troops to capture it, but the player always moves first in a round, so this shouldn't be a problem. i.e. Everybody moves, the flip occurs on the IT, then the player gets to move]

I like the "friendly" congestion around Perseopolis. We should be blocking Roman troops from reaching any of the southern Persian cities, those are ours. Let the Romans take Arbela, and we can take Tarsus, Sidon, and Antioch after Perseopolis. By the end of Greebley's turn, we will hold X-man's future in our hands. Or maybe this will go quick and he'll eliminate them. I'm leaning towards not razing Persian cities, cause X-man's on his way out.

After Persia is eliminated, Hammer has got to go. If Greebley doesn't get a chance to do it, I will. (We have 3 turns left on our latest cease-fire with him).

On the lumberjacking point, I believe only the first chop gets a shield credit. Since our workers have nothing better to do, chopping all the arctic forest, and then re-planting it, is a good use of their time.

One last point: Since warm-body MP doesn't apply in a Republic (and we don't need more bodies in larger cities), we really should try not to have any undefended cities.
 
I got it and hope to play tonight. I will read any further comments before I play.

I tend to keep wonders (actually, a more accurate statement is that I can't think of a single instance where I destroyed a useful wonder). I don't think the flip chance will be that huge. 5-20% would be my guess.
 
What I intended from my comments was that the only thing that can slow down our assault is a city flip while it has a large garrison. Persia doesn't have iron or horses anymore, so they shouldn't be able to mount a competent counter-attack on any city we capture, which removes almost all the danger of a light garrison.

If we capture all Persian cities without razing, I would expect we have a flip somewhere in there, since we have such a low culture relative to Persia. But we may not give them time to flip, it's not out of the question Persia could be gone halfway through Greebley's turn.

Greebley also gets to set our course for the balance of the GA. We've either been at war or preparing for war for the last 100 turns. I figure this is the time for infrastructure. But if Greebley gets a yearning to smack Rome ... :hammer:
 
Preturn: Minor MM of a few cities. Scrounge up 2 gold so I can rush Ashur's pikeman. Ashur will get a tree chop in 2 and was going to build his pikeman in 2. The rush will allow Ashur to use the chop. Thx for the heads up on that. Move settler to one of the dots (I hope to keep Persian cities).

IBT: Immortal attacks rider. We retreat.

260 AD (1): Beijing: Rider->Rider, Build Tientsin in the dotmap position near Akkad.

Attempt on Persopolis. There is a Roman army nearby BTW. Here goes:
v Med Inf vs v Pike loses but redlines pike. (1)
v Med Inf vs v Pike wins and promotes to elite.
v Med Inf vs r Pike wins.
Cat that somehow got skipped in the first round does a pt of damage to a pikeman (2)
v Rider vs r Pike retreats doing minor damage (3)
v Rider vs r Pike wins (2 hp pike shows up so there are 3 defenders).
e Med Inf vs 2pt Pike wins (no leader).
v Rider vs 2pt Pike wins.
v Rider vs 1pt Pike wins and takes city. 9 resisters.

Also I kill the immortal that attacked last turn.

Upgrade Horseman and archer. I block the Roman army from Sideon and Antioch. There may be serious competition for these even so. Iroquois knights are also incoming.
I have a 1 hp rider guarding a catapult with no more units to help. I decide the rider is more valuable and move it to safety. The cat may be lost.

IBT: Roman army does terribly and is redlined (and I think retreats so the defender has 2+ hp). We get a palace upgrade.

270 AD (2): Suza:Rider->Rider

Attack Antioch:
v Rider vs r Pike wins.
v Rider vs r Pike loses with no damage done and the Pike promotes.
v Rider vs v Pike retreats. Calling off the attack as we are not doing well enough to continue.
----------
Elite slightly injured e Med Inf attacks a longbowman fishing for a leader. Wins but no leader.

Sideon is surrounded by troops now. Bringing up the catapults to attack next round.

More upgrades

IBT: Persia now just has Sidion and Antioch. JSB is built by America in Boston. Roman cavalry head for Antioch. Not sure if I can get both these cities, but I will try.

280 AD (3): Nanking: Pikeman->Pikeman, Shanghai: Rider->Rider, Canton: Market->Catapult.

Attack on Sidon:
Catapults damage 2 r Pike
v Rider vs r Pike wins revealing the damage pikeman (so 2 damaged pikes left).
v Rider vs 2pt Pike barely wins but promotes.
v Rider vs 2pt Pike wins and premotes. Sidon taken.

Move riders to Antioch. More upgrades

IBT: Romans advance. I have blocked most of the ways to the city so I think I can win (I didn't want to block ALL the ways in case that angers Rome). Korea joins dogpile on Persia. Magellan is started.

290 AD(4):Tsiango builds a settler starts temple. Beijing: Rider->Rider. I check the diplo but we don't get enough to make peace with persia worthwhile (ie give rome the city)..

Attack Antioch:
v Rider vs v Pike loses (2hp left).
v Rider vs r Pike wins (1hp but promotes
v Rider vs r Pike loses
v Rider vs 2pt Pike wins
v Rider vs 2pt Pike wins and Antioch falls.

Persia has been destroyed.

Note that we can buy some techs, but at 2nd to last as Babylon doesn't have them either. I think I will wait until Babylon is no more to get them at last place prices.

Switch Suza to a Marketplace.

IBT: Roman and Iroquois head back out of our lands. Everyone is building Magellan now.

300 AD (5): Ellipi: Rider->Marketplace, Canton: Catapult->Catapult, Chengdu: Temple->Market, Sidon quells 8 resisters (I piled in some troops).Chengdu: Temple->Market,
Mostly troop healing and trying to keep an eye on the Roman and Iroquois intruders.

Gold is up to 205 per turn.

Notice we might be able to grab some spices. Switch Persopolis to a settler.

310 AD (6): Shanghai: Rider->Temple, Persepolis: Settler->Temple. Gather forces for attack on babylon.

Iroquois Embassy: Iroquois have 1 of each resource and 6 luxuries currently. Seoul/Korea - they are democracy + healthy resources. America is republic with all resources 5 luxuries.

We now have embassies with all nations. Also investigate Babylon city to check on offensive units. They have a single longbow and 3 spears.

320 AD (7): Most foreign troops have left now. Beijing: Rider->Rider, Nanking:Pikeman->Market, Canton: Catupult->Courthouse, Hangchow: Temple->Harbor.
Build Tatung at the final dotmap position. Declare war on Babylon.
Build Macao to grab spices (between 2 Roman cities (distance 3)).

IBT: Wine deal ends with Rome (we don't need as we now have the spices).

330 AD (8): Susa: Market->Rider. Move outside Babylon city but they sent out a boat. they may build another city.

340 AD (9): Shanghai: Temple->Rider. Attack on Uruk. Two elite units win but no leader and Babylon is destroyed. They put a spearman and longbow on the boat to deprive us of Leaders. The Meanies!

I consider buying Gunpowder, but decide we can't both pay for the tech and upgrade, so I hold off.

350 AD (10): Beijing: Rider->Rider

I suggest buying some tech. Prices are as low as they are going to go we probably have enough to both buy gunpowder and also upgrade most pikemen without needing gpt.

You can also mega-micro-manage Beijing if you want. On one turn it makes 26 shields, on the other two 23. This gives a rider and 2 food for growth every 2 turns.
Research is currently turned off.

Everything is upgraded except 2 spearman (one elite), and regular warrior.

The riders are currently in the Jungle near Uruk. We also need workers over there. There aren't any yet.

Finally, I was thinking we may want to resettle that town on the westmost point of land. I was thinking Antioch could do it after it finishes its temple. It has lots of food.


JB350AD.JPG


The save
 
Excellent turns Greebley, you got two kills! :worship:

I've got it, but won't play until tomorrow morning (~12 hrs) so people can weigh in on our future direction. I noticed one troubling thing when I opened the save. Caesar is in the industrial age. :cry:

I expect him to have rifles by the end of my turn. I think that makes our path clear, we need to concentrate on infra, because we won't be making a go at Rome until we can get to cavalry. I think our GA will end on my 9th turn, so I'll try not to spend all of our money. :lol:

We're 2nd in land area, but we're rather vulnerable. My initial thoughts on my turn is to be as nice as possible to Rome. If they let us survive until we get cavs/rifles, then we should be able to outproduce the AI and steamroll them in the Infantry era.

Odd question: Why does everyone hate us on the F4 screen? I don't think we have broken any deals, and I don't believe there is any diplomatic penalty for wiping out another civ. :confused:
 
Why does everyone hate us on the F4 screen?
Click to expand...
If you don't mind me fielding that question, there is a slight deterioration in diplomatic relations every time you raze/abandon a city and every time you declare a war. There has been a fair amount of both in this game ;).
 
Originally posted by Zwingli

If you don't mind me fielding that question, there is a slight deterioration in diplomatic relations every time you raze/abandon a city and every time you declare a war. There has been a fair amount of both in this game ;).
Click to expand...

Heh, there's plenty more where that came from! :tank:

@JustBen - Do you have any particular feelings on worker farms? With a granary, Antioch will do 2 turn workers forever. We could bump up some of our cities population this way, but some folks see this as an exploit.
 
Braaaaaavo, Greebley. We finally have something that looks like an empire.

@TMcC: We didn't need to see Caesar change clothes to know that we're not starting a war anytime soon; we already saw his Cavalry. After our GA runs out, go ahead get us started on our Republican revolution -- if you don't, I will. We very clearly need to get Marketplaces and Banks up and running before we can accomplish anything more in this game.

@The Team (re Zwingli): No kidding! But I guess that means everything is going according to plan. No one seriously thought we were going for the 100k win once you found out we'd spun up China, right? ;) But is our credit still good? I haven't checked the save for a round or two. We won't be getting any 2:1s for quite a while, so Banking is the only thing that would be worth buying on credit in the near future. Nevertheless, it is annoying to have options taken off the table.

@TMcC (again): Worker farms suck. We've used Worker merges in this game a little bit, but it was in the spirit of the game. You've all heard the arguments, so I won't repeat them now. I apologize for neglecting to list it on my exploits on page 1, but please refrain. I don't know what our Worker count is right now, so feel free to crank them from Antioch if we need to get projects started; just don't meld them into cities/metropoli.
 
Note that I have been working on Marketplaces. They are the one item many ciities have. Only our new or small cities should be missing them. We may want to consider going for banking before cavalry. Right now we are still building troops that just cost money. Bank and then troops is better than troops then bank, I think.

As far as I know our rep is fine. I checked to make sure there was nothing between us when I attacked babylon. Note that we haven't been trading recently (since I was waiting for Bab's elimination), which seems to lower your standing. We can probably get to banking with without too much gpt needed. When I last checked we could buy gunpowder for around 750, so we can afford education straight up and have some cash left for buying our way to banks.

I have been using the workers to create more irrigated land to grow our cities faster. We probably want to continue this and emphasize food over shields. While a "worker farm" is an exploit, I think what we can do is put a granary in antioch and popping of a worker every time it grows to size 12. Too me this is not an exploit, but the way things should work. The exploitive part to my mind is when you use a size 6 city to make a size 12 grow or a size 12 to make a size 20 grow, etc.

The first thing I would do though is to rebuild that penisula city that was razed in the wars by having antioch build a settler after the temple. It might have a resource, and even if it doesn't, then someday it will produce a decent amount of gold from all the coast squares.

Oh one other thing. All tundra squares have used their tree chop (once the current chops finish). I simply replanted the forests. Don't chop trees in tundra squares and expect to get 10 shields.

The only other square that I planted a forest was the one E of Ellipi. A worker got bored and planted it and is now chopping. I tend not to do the forest chop, as I am not organized enough to really do it. Since I inherited the game with the Tundra forests being chopped, I kept that up and replanted afterward.

Edit: If we are planning on being peaceful for a while you could make ROP deals. I didn't want to tie us up to any commitments as I was unsure when we wanted to attack the romans.

Note that I think the Iroquois would make a good ally when we do go against Rome. They seemed to have a good amount of troops
 
Originally posted by JustBen

But is our credit still good? I haven't checked the save for a round or two. We won't be getting any 2:1s for quite a while ...
Click to expand...

Our credit is still fine, and we'll catch up to the English and Iroquois rather soon, so I suspect we can 2-fer our way into the Industrial Age.

I was just surprised to see no one was at least Cautious with us. My previous understanding was that razing cities only incurred a diplomatic penalty with the razees, but you learn something new every day. There's no one in the game who can (credibly) attack us besides Rome, and as long as they hold off for 30-40 turns it'll be downhill from there.
 
:goodjob: Greebley

I agree with banking path. Currently we could buy education for 450 gold and incense.
 
JB01 - 350 AD

Lousy Builders Turns (or was it?)

What a difference 50 turns makes. I think when I last played, we had 5 cities, now we have 18. Body count: 15 Riders, 18 Pikes, 8 Cats, 10 Misc. We have 6 native workers and 23 slaves.

We are running 10% lux tax, costing us 37 gpt. We are not researching anything, nor should we be. Our only ongoing deal is Liz paying us 1 gpt for 15 turns. Everyone is annoyed with us. There are no wars going on.

Our GA expires on my 9th turn. Guesstimate that will cost 110 gpt, so don't spend all the money.

Pre-turn diplomacy:
Start with Korea: Trade Wang Incense + 19gpt for Wines + Ivory, with a WM swap thrown in. Allows us to lower the lux tax to 0%, and fire a couple clowns. Income goes to 277 gpt (+24 gpt). Being able to run 0% lux also means cities won't riot just because the GA ends. Wang goes from Furious --> Annoyed. To try to bolster our reputation, sign ROP with Korea (he'd pay, I let him have it for free).

Next, England: Liz gives 7 gold for a WM swap. Buy Education for Incense + 33gpt. I will try to get a two-fer on Gunpowder farther up the Education branch. Also, I'm not big on the pike --> musket upgrade, as 60 gold is a lot to pay for 1 add'l defense. Give Liz a free ROP (she'd pay). She is now Cautious. She is also lacking Astronomy, so the two-fers can begin immediately.

On to the Iroquois: Give Hi 7 gold to swap WM. Also give a free ROP.

Hangin' with Abe: Abe gives us Music Theory and 1 gold to swap WM (12 gold value). Abe also gets a free ROP.

Liz gives 11 gold for updated WM, as does Caesar. Have a strong internal debate over whether to ROP with Rome. He'll be coming through anyway to get to his cities, and I'm not going to demand he leave. Only once have I ever been attacked by a civ with whom I have an ROP. This is a literary device known as "foreshadowing". In a solo game I'd do this, so we pay 24 gold to Casear for an ROP. Caesar goes from Annoyed to Cautious.

Might as well strike while the iron is hot: Incense + 50 gpt to Abe for Astronomy. Astronomy is worth a discount of 16 gpt on either Banking or Gunpowder from Liz. Astronomy + 24 gpt to Liz for Gunpowder. We have three salts, all hooked up. No one needs any. (I took Gunpowder instead of Banking because (1) We don't have that many markets yet. (2) Banking can 2-fer with Chemistry or Metallurgy, and I think we only want the required techs. Buying Democracy to 2-fer doesn't seem worth it)

So we got ROP' s with everyone, a full WM, two lux and three techs. We still have 1044 gold in the bank and are making 162 gpt. We've traded away all 3 incense, and if war breaks out in the East, we may be in trouble. If you're gonna break one deal, might as well break a lot. (Only a minor concern, we have a harbor, and at least some of the AI have Navigation/Magnetism)

Change a few builds (mostly in cities where temples were cued, but the city didn't need the happiness anytime soon, or wouldn't benefit from the border expansion) and MM cities, income goes to 174 gpt.

Wake Rider from Susa and garrison Hangchow.

360 AD (1) - Nothing completes

370 AD (2) - A few AI start Smith's. Susa Rider --> Musketman, Shanghai Rider --> Granary, Canton Rider --> Musketman, Antioch Temple --> Courthouse,

380 AD (3) - Swap TM with Abe. Liz had both Chemistry and Banking, so no 2-fer available there. Beijing Rider --> Temple. A few folks are approaching the ruins on the western tip of the continent. Alas, one of our commanders got lost and mistakenly positioned our troops on all the eligible city building tiles. :blush: Sidon Marketplace (rushed) --> Courthouse.

390 AD (4) - Liz offers to sell us Navigation for 660 gold. I decline. Baking would be 880 gold, but I also declined, as I want it in a two-fer with Metallurgy. Tientsin Temple -->Barracks. Macao Temple(rushed) --> Walls. Ashur Harbor --> Courthouse. Ellipi Marketplace --> musket. The worker hordes have made their way west to the jungle.

400 AD (5) - Don't think anything completed. Chemistry from Hi for WM + 970 gold. Consarnit! The 3-fer isn't there. Oh well, Liz doesn't have Metallurgy or Physics, so I'll take Metallurgy. Metallurgy from Abe for WM + 68 gpt. Metallurgy to Liz for Banking + WM + 24 gold. Physics can 2-fer with Military Tradition, and we are only 3 techs from the Industrial Age. I think I'm done spending money on my turn, I've tied up most of the next two players economies. Treasury at 565 gold, making 143 gpt.

410 AD (6) - Beijing Temple --> Bank (While I wanted our larger cities to have at least 1 musket, and we are short on defensive units, muskets can wait for banks.) [Cue foreboding music] Persopolis barracks --> courthouse. Xinjian courthouse --> marketplace. Susa Musket --> bank. Tsingtao Market --> Harbor. Canton Musket --> Bank. No one besides Rome is industrial, but a whole bunch just started Shake's. Upgrade all 8 cats to cannon. Stupid Roman cav stopped in the jungle square I had a bunch of workers on goto to. No one besides Rome is availing themselves of our ROP.

420 AD (7) - Tiensin Barracks --> Market. Hangchow Harbor --> courthouse.

430 AD (8) - Nanking Market --> Granary. Shanghai Musket --> Bank. Macao Walls --> Cannon. Macao Walls --> courthouse. Redistribute cannons to border cities.

440 AD (9) - And then the sh*t hits the fan. Our GA ends, and the Romans ROP rape us to capture Tatung. Tientsin is attacked and is in danger for the next turn. We also lose a stack of slaves. Good thing the AI doesn't know how to properly perform an ROP rape, or we'd be in serious trouble.

I don't believe the ROP was [pimp] The ROP only allowed the Romans to choose a soft initial target. I don't believe the presence of the ROP made it more likely they would attack, and should have made it less likely. I guess the AI doesn't like aggressive settlements. Where I think the ROP hurt us is that once the AI says to itself, "Hey, lets attack", the ROP allows it to choose from a broader range of targets.

I don't know what our real income is, but buy MA against Rome with Korea for 29 gpt, and MA with America vs. Rome for 19 gpt. Kill Roman cav outside of Tientsin. Lose Rider attacking Longbow outside Tientsin :cringe:.

Recapture Tatung, gain 315 gold in the process. Upgrade pike in Perse' to Musket. Buy Military Tradition from Iroquois for 300 gold + 48 gpt, we need cavalry. Attack Roman Cav near Macao with Longbow. Retreat the Cav, will lose longbow on interturn. Found Anyang on western ruins.

Ellipi musket --> cav. Upgrade 6 riders to Cavalry. We currently have 724 gold, with an income of +107 per turn (?) Swap Susa from bank to musket. Swap Canton from Bank to cavalry. Shanghai from bank to musket. Tientsin to walls. I have a big stack of workers to bait Cavs out of Tarsus. (That's not intentional, the workers couldn't run into a city in time). The workers the Romans stole are tucked under a Cav army. If Caesar can sign anyone else in against us, we'll be out from under some gpt. Empty Sidon of defense, the Romans can't reach it. Trying to hide workers in cities.

450 AD (10) - Press return and hide under the desk ... No cities fall. The Romans like Canton, but thanks to our cannon brigades, don't even kill one unit. More bad news: I see Roman rifles. Rome and England sign an MA against America. We are losing 10 gpt, with a treasure of 707. In 10 turns we will recover 102 gpt and our 2 incense. Swap Beijing from Bank --> Cavalry. Kill two redlined Cavs outside of Canton. Swap Perseopolis from Courthouse to musket. I don't see any other soft Roman targets. Hopefully Wang and Abe can harass Rome's east enough to give us time to regroup. If we can reduce it to fighting local forces only, we can make gains from this war. For JustBen, I didn't move very many units this turn, so you can do some unit shuffling as you see fit. I put those Riders next to the western-most Roman city in the wrong square, but they can't be moved this turn. I wanted to check to see if Caesar would have muskets there, and to try to get the Riders back to the core.

I signed the MA's because I believed we would lose huge if we fought Rome alone. If we only have to fight local forces, we should easily be able to withstand 20 turns of war. Korea and America are Industrial, but Korea did not draw Nationalism as its free tech. None of our outgoing gpt will end on your turn, JustBen, so this is going to be a tough round. The first round of gpt ends on Darkness 1st IT (turn?), the second round on his 5th, and the MA's on his 9th.

Before Rome attacked, I was working on a paragraph talking about us being 2nd in land and population, and definitely in a winning position so long as we were left alone for about 20 more turns. Be careful what you wish for ... :mad:

Duck and Cover
 
A couple of more notes: We did build the city on the western end of the pangaea, I think on turn 9. I think you can surmise why I didn't take note of that.

I also have to apologise, if we are playing by LKendter rules. I think my tactics on turn 3 constitute 'ROP Abuse'. This wasn't a flagrant violation, more of a "hold my place while our settler moves", but still... The settler started moving on turn 3 from Perseopolis.

Well, the host of the game gets the most important 10 turns. If we don't lose any cities on JustBen's turn, we should be able to generate some offense on Darkness' turn. Or at least get a peace with the status quo.

Also on the happy front, there is a Roman cav army running around near Macao.

@JustBen - If the war isn't distracting enough, there are some good MM opportunities for growth in Susa and the surrounding floodplains cities.

Good luck! :help:
 
I definitely agree that MA were a good idea. I would much rather face few units for longer than Romes entire force at once.

I agree the ROP didn't make it more likely to attack. Probably less. From experience, I don't think our towns were close enough to lead to a direct attack at least not the primary cause. What is much more likely is the fact that we are doing well in score and land while having being outnumbered by Roman forces. Betazed's peaceful game show that this is important consideration:

Betazed's post
 
There's conflicting opinion on whether aggressive settlement causes wars, my personal belief is that is does.

We have plenty of land, but we are still behind Persia on the F8 screen. I'd actually be impressed if the AI "go to war" algorithm included something like:

human score=low, gradient=low; aggression=medium (probably not worth attacking)
human score=low, gradient=high; aggression=high (kill before threat)

Caesar did what I would have done in his position, now we have to make him pay.

I think my turnlog overstates how dire the situation is. Even on a complete blindsiding, we only lost 1 city, and gained it right back. The Romans even paid 335 gold to rent for the 1 turn. We're not going to collapse anytime soon, unless the pRNG really hates us. I think we're just going to have to be content to trade units for a few turns, before we can consider going on offense. And even if we don't get to go on offense during this war, in about 30-40 turns we'll have the chance to show Caesar how to properly execute a blitz attack :satan:
 
On the AI attacking for close cities: They will definitely attack if the Civ distance is 2. For distance 3 - I have had games where I have placed a city and the AI has remained completely peaceful. Also they place their cities that close to me so my guess is the effect is minor to moderate (and I have gotten lucky) if it exists. I think running out of space will trigger AI aggression and seen at least one game where blocking the AI from settlable land seemed to anger them (I locked them in a small part of the continent and tried to take the rest - they attacked after running out of land).

It is hard to tell for sure though. A good way for the programmers to have implemented it would be to have a random chance per turn that is based on a number of factors. This makes it difficult to really know all the effects.

I am not really worried about the war since we have allies. The worst case is probably that we need to stay in war mode & make no progress with high War Weariness. The WW hit is probably already high with the loss of that town. We should be getting unhappiness soon I would guess (assuming we haven't already)
 
"Got it"; can't make any promises about when it'll be posted. Schoolwork just turned a teensy bit intense, and I have to do some time-juggling. I'll be on time.

The first thing I want to say is that I strongly agree with the decision to establish RoPs with everyone; so much so that I'm embarassed that I hadn't mentioned it to anyone before this round.

While I don't definitely agree with the choice to call in MAs against Rome, I also definitely don't disagree with the decision. My priority is going to be a holding position; if I can fight this war with one hand tied behind my back, I'll gladly build Banks with the spare resources. I also respect that we're into a 2-round conflict though -- I don't want Darkness to worry about being handed a sketchy order-of-battle.

Caesar has had a big, red target painted on his forehead for a long time now. Just because things are going a little ahead of schedule doesn't mean they're not going to go off as planned. The 1st war with Persia -- now that was scary.

All this is based on me not having opened the save yet. I won't be playing immediately, so by all means comment if you wish.

Cheers to your successful trading, TMcC. That was a great relief to read about. I'm far more worried about our economy than our military.

Oh yeah -- one last thing. It's meant to be just Ben, not JustBen.
 
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