JFD's Civilizations - Papal States (Pius IX) for Vox Populi

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by HungryForFood, Apr 21, 2018.

  1. HungryForFood

    HungryForFood Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    Malaysia
    JFD's Civilizations - Papal States (Pius IX) for Vox Populi
    Does not need the original mod
    (mediafire)
    (steam workshop)
    (link to original mod)

    Apostolic See (UA)

    :tourism: Tourism is increased by 50% with Civilizations that share your Religion. +2 :c5faith: Faith from Palace, Wonders, and :greatwork: Great Works. +50% conversion strength for Missionaries and Great Prophets.

    Chapel (UB) (replaces Temple)

    • 2 :greatwork: Great Work slots instead of 1, which provide a Theming bonus when filled
    • Up to three Chapels may be built per City, each with different :greatwork: Great Work slot types.
    • Costs less :c5production: Production (100instead of 200).
    • Costs no :c5gold: Gold maintenance.
    Disciple (UU) (standalone)

    • Can create unique :greatwork: Great Works.
    • Can also be expended to start a :c5goldenage: Golden Age.
    • Can only be purchased with :c5faith: Faith in the :c5capital: Capital.
    • Has a purchase cooldown of 8 turns (scaling with game speed).
    • May move immediately after purchase.
    Additional mod compatibility

    Spoiler UA details :
    Original UA: :tourism: Tourism is increased by 50% with civilizations that share your religion. Spend :c5faith: Faith on Disciples which can be used to create unique :greatwork: Great Works. Being with +1 :c5faith: Faith instead of :c5culture: Culture.

    Disciples have been moved to the unique unit slot, so it interacts with the game more normally. The Palace now has the culture again, as losing this culture is extremely crippling VP. In addition, Pius gets faith on all the objectives a taller empire might go for, so that he can generate faith even though he is not wide. Lastly, Pius gets some bonus missionary strength, as his UA requires him to spread.

    Overall, the combination of UA, UB, and UU should give Pius loads of :tourism: Tourism and :c5culture: Culture, along with high :c5faith: Faith for a taller empire.
    Spoiler UB details :
    The first Chapel has slots for music, the second for art, and the third for writing. All three Chapels have the religious pressure, unhappiness reduction, and +3 :c5faith: Faith of a Temple. However, only the first one has the yields on resource tiles.

    Theming the Chapel gives +3 :c5culture: Culture and :tourism: Tourism, along with a bonus +3 :c5faith: Faith. The bonus can be achieved by filling the slots with your :greatwork: Great Works.
    Spoiler UU details :
    Unlike the Disciples of the original mod, the :c5faith: Faith cost does not increase for each one you buy. Instead, it scales just like any other :c5faith: Faith purchases, which is (mostly) by era. Instead, you can only purchase them in the :c5capital: Capital, and there is a purchase cooldown of 8 turns (in standard). The idea is that the :c5faith: Faith cost should not be the limiting factor for buying Disciples, as Pius needs the :c5faith: Faith to spread.

    This unit is essentially a pseudo Great Artist which also has a chance to create Great Works of Writing and Music. Note that they do not trigger effects associated with :c5greatperson: Great People, eg historic events, instant yields, etc.
    Spoiler More UC details :
    Swiss Guard (UU) (standalone)

    • Can only be purchased with :c5faith: Faith or :c5gold: Gold.
    • Swiss Mercenaries (+20% :c5strength: Strength when defending. Heals 25 damage when defeating an enemy unit. When garrisoned, +10% :tourism: Tourism in the City).
    • Does not obsolete.
    Vatican Museums (UW) (replaces Hermitage)

    • 4 :greatwork: Great Work slots instead of 3.
    • Free Great Artist when completed.
    • +25% :c5culture: Culture in the City, instead of +10%.
    • 1 :c5culture: Culture per 2 :c5citizen: Citizen, instead of per 4 :c5citizen: Citizen.
    • +10 :c5culture: Culture and :tourism: Tourism when Themed, along with a bonus of +10 :c5gold: Gold.
    • 25% of Culture from World Wonders, Natural Wonders, Improvements added to Tourism, 25% more Tourism from Great Works.
    • +2 :tourism: Tourism to all three types of Chapels.
    Spoiler Mod compatibility details :
    Community events:
    1. Free :c5greatperson: Great Person.
    2. -25% :c5culture: Culture cost of acquiring new tiles, +1 :c5gold: Gold from Farms, Camps, and Pastures.
    3. +2 :c5faith: Faith, :c5culture: Culture, and :tourism: Tourism to all :greatwork: Great Works.
    4. All units gain :c5faith: Faith and :c5culture: Culture when killing an enemy unit (equal to 50% of the enemy's combat strength).
    5. -25% reduction of religious unrest and poverty.
    6. +4 :c5faith: Faith and :c5culture: Culture, and +1 :tourism: Tourism in holy city or capital for every 10 followers of your religion (yours and foreign cities).
    Decision: Declare the Kingdom of God
    • Costs decreased, but now scale with era (about the same in Renaissance).
    • Now requires 1 Magistrate.
    • Removed 2 Magistrate reward.
    • New reward: spawns 1 free unit in your capital per 5 cities following your religion whenever a war begins.
    • I'm considering reverting this, it's a bit op.
    Decision: Institute the Societas Jesu
    • Costs decreased, but now scale with era (about the same in Renaissance).
    • Now has a gold cost as well (same cost as faith).
    • Changed effect from 50% of your population converted per turn to 15% less faith cost for missionaries, inquisitors, and buildings (previous one was far too strong).


    Credits
    • JFD: Author.
    • Janboruta: Artwork.
    • Civitar: Graphics
    • Nutty: Graphics
    • Antoine Brumel: Missa Et ecce terrae motus, Gloria (Peace Theme)
    • Ensemble Organum, Marcel Peres: Salve Regina; Chant of the Templars (War Theme)
    • HungryForFood: Vox Populi Compatibility, Vatican Museums icon
    • Asterix Rage: Promotion icon
    Disclaimer
    I am not the author of the original mod.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
  2. HungryForFood

    HungryForFood Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    Malaysia
    No direct download this time, CFC not accepting my upload, probably because it's quite large in size. Use Steam Workshop instead.
     
  3. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    6,676
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    Temples give 3 faith, not 2. Might be an error in your post, or or maybe you misspoke. At any rate I think 1 less faith than a normal temple would be fair.

    How do the chapels interact with the grand temple’s +2 faith and culture to temples on empire? Is that really 6 faith/culture in city with 3 chapels? That’s dynamite.

    Temples modify wine incense and amber. Does only the first chapel (music) do this?
     
  4. HungryForFood

    HungryForFood Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Yea, its actually 3 Faith. Didn't think of having less Faith actually, if Pius turns out too strong, that's one way to nerf things.

    Only the first Chapel gets the Grand Temple bonus.

    Yes, only the first one.

    The second and third only gets the base Faith, religious pressure, and unhappiness reduction.
     
  5. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    6,676
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    Dayum, that's 75% religious pressure per city. Honestly, on paper this civ looks incredibly OP. There's no malus to preventing them from going wide, and they have a terrifying kit for religious/cultural supremacy.
     
    LukaSlovenia29 likes this.
  6. HungryForFood

    HungryForFood Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Possibly. From my tests I've found that going Progress is very viable. We'll see, if it's too strong I'll take out most of the stats from the second and third Chapel first.
     
  7. infidel88

    infidel88 Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Yuggoth
    Can't you use https://mega.nz/ or something?
     
    Asterix Rage likes this.
  8. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    6,676
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    Makes sense. 3x the temples at 1/2 price each means 3x as many food/culture instaboosts. I think a malus, would be needed to keep the number of cities low. Early faith civs are extremely well-suited to wide play since faith scales with number of cities more than anything.

    Maybe a -30% production for military units, or disable their ability to declare war (they have to call 'crusades' instead)
     
  9. HungryForFood

    HungryForFood Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    Malaysia
    The reason why Progress (or just wide in general) is good is not because of the 3x Temple, but the Culture from Great Works compensating for wide's usual weakness in Culture. And that's fine. we don't want civs to be pigeon-holed.

    I don't think drastic changes will be needed. AI Papal States usually does well, but not overwhelmingly so. They don't snowball the way Ethiopia does.
     
  10. HungryForFood

    HungryForFood Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    Malaysia
  11. Giza

    Giza Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Quebec City
    Thanks for this adaptation. I tried it and it does not seem OP, although I would classify it as a very strong civ. You get the faith production machine going very fast and it continues to ramp up through the medieval era. Later, you have lots of culture production through all the great works you have. I did not finish the game yet but I'm guessing that I will probably have a strong option to win through tourism.
     
  12. HungryForFood

    HungryForFood Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    Malaysia
    You think so? Because from observing the Pius AI, I find that he consistently overperforms, as his kit is really straightforward, and his faith comes quite early.

    In fact, I'm considering nerfing the UA to 2 faith, and the chapel theming bonuses to 2.
     
  13. IcyAngel

    IcyAngel Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    544
    Consider leaving the palace at +3 -- it's the only source of early faith, without it the AI might fail to found on higher difficulties.

    And I'd bump the production cost of the temple to 150p instead of changing the theming bonus, as that only starts compounding much later anyway.
     
    pineappledan likes this.
  14. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    6,676
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    I Second IcyAngel's suggestion.
    This civ can get 11:c5faith:/2:c5culture: and +75% pressure per city per turn for 300:c5production:. That's really efficient, so I would start there
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
  15. Giza

    Giza Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Quebec City
    It may be because I played Tradition. With progress, the civ may be event better.

    Higher production cost on the chapel is a nice idea indeed.
     
  16. hokath

    hokath King

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Messages:
    954
    Location:
    London
    I played some of a game as these guys today, thought I would give some feedback. :)
    I found them very powerful. The amount of faith one can produce, even without Wonders, is huge. There now exists a belief that gives Culture when spending Faith, so this is even better, now. On Steel I could buy the largest army of Swiss Guard the world has ever seen. The number of Great Works I could produce was effectively limited by how many slots I could get, which is nuts. Also I could get quite a few slots with the Chapels, obviously. The amount of yields in the early game was terrifically high. (aside: the unique event that gives +6 yields to great works would be busted, I didn't turn them on to see the vanilla balance, so to speak) Artistry was quite lucrative for the bonus; I didn't make it to Rationalism, but that policy would have been monstrous also I imagine. Then there were the missionaries. My ability to spread was like Gandhi on steroids, forcibly converting other religious leaders against their will :borg:.
    I would conclude that amount of faith they can produce (and the knock on to the amount of great works they can attain) is simply too high. I would remove the +3 faith to great works. The +3 from theming is sufficient. Your suggestion of lowering other faith gains to +2 is probably also a good idea.
    I would also put a restriction on purchasing Swiss Guard. For example making them require at least the Barracks to be purchased. Maybe the Chapel too?
     
    CppMaster likes this.
  17. Jarula

    Jarula King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2016
    Messages:
    680
    Gender:
    Male
    Can I propose a change to the UA?
     
  18. HungryForFood

    HungryForFood Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Go ahead, suggestions always welcome.

    Sure, I'm down to nerf Pius. Starting with taking out the faith to great works is probably a good idea.

    For Swiss Guard, removing the faith purchase, and leaving just the gold purchase might do. It was probably too synergistic.
     
  19. Jarula

    Jarula King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2016
    Messages:
    680
    Gender:
    Male
    Adding can choose another belief to UA and then take away the missionary buff.
     
  20. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    6,676
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    If it were up to me, which it is not, I would completely overhaul the civ as a OCC civ that wins via religious domination. Pius IX was the father of the modern Vatican; he LOST the Papal States within 10 years of his election, so it is weird to have him be able to settle/annex like any other empire. Pius IX was famously known as “the prisoner of the Vatican”, issuing his papal decrees and reinforcing the papacy’s ecclesiastical primacy while its temporal power was eroded to nothing.

    If I were to do a Pius IX Vatican civ, I would do something like this:
    Spoiler :
    Vatican
    Pius IX

    UA - Pastor Aeternus
    Civilizations sharing a majority religion with the Vatican are immediately vassalized. +50% missionary spread strength. Can not build Settlers, Annex Cities, or Declare :c5war:War.

    UB - The Holy See (palace replacement)
    All the bonuses of a standard palace.
    +2:c5faith: faith
    +1:c5faith: faith per 4:c5citizen: citizens
    +2:c5faith: faith for every World Wonder and Great Work in City.
    2 slots for :greatwork: GW Art - 3 :c5faith:faith if themed
    Unlocks the construction of 3 unique chapels: the Niccoline Chapel, Cappella Paolina, and Matilde Chapel at Theology (not mutually exclusive)

    Niccoline chapel
    Unlocked at theology
    3 :c5faith:faith
    2:c5greatperson: G Musician points
    2 :greatwork: GW Music slots (5:c5culture: if themed)
    +25% religious pressure
    +25% :tourism: Tourism in City

    Cappella Paolina
    Unlocked at theology
    3 :c5faith:faith
    2:c5greatperson: G artist points
    2 :greatwork: GW Art slots (5:c5goldenage: if themed)
    +25% religious pressure
    75:c5faith: faith and :c5goldenage: GAP whenever a policy is adopted

    Matilde chapel
    Unlocked at theology
    2 :c5greatperson: G writer points
    3 :c5faith:faith
    2 :greatwork: GW Writing slots (5:c5gold: if themed)
    +25% religious pressure
    +1 movement and ignore terrain to missionaries built in this city

    Disciple, Swiss guard, and museums of the Vatican unchanged

    So you get the +25% for religious majority from both vassalization AND religious majority. You can only fight defensive wars, but every declaration against you is also a declaration of war against your “flock”. You can leverage this into a cultural victory without much difficulty.

    Pastor Aeternum is a papal decree passed by Pius IX which denounced the ideas of liberalism and separation of church and state as contrary to Catholic doctrine. It also canonized papal infallibility, centralizing the papacy as arbiter of catholic doctrine. There is nothing in the current civ’s kit which is specific to Pius IX.

    Everything is proposed is doable with current sql, except disabling war and vassalizing through conversion.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019

Share This Page