JFD's Kingdom of Norway (Haakon IV) for VP

[Hinin]

The Knarr and it's ghost ability tho really messes with the AI.

That's what I was fearing. I supposed that, since it is exactly the same ability as the submarine, which is a unit that is part of VP and is usually considered quite bad, it would be supported and balanced in some ways... I'll think about it.

The big issue with that tho is that they don't have your religion or pantheon. Perhaps they should have that to? Sort of like how Spain (I think it's them) get their religion in a city as soon as it's started. After all the Skald brings the traditions with them.

To me, that would remove what makes the Conquistadores truly unique in term of religion propagation. I don't want to overstep in that direction. I agree with you thematically, though.

So not being at war kinda sucks in that regard. The turns I spent at peace was horrible. As noted I'm now basically farming Egypt for all they are worth. If this had been any other game I would have pushed to capture them but now I'm leaving that option out for as long as possible. Including a save just for fun.

Do you feel like you have too many Skalds? I could reverse the UA pillage change if the GWriter part overflows too much.

 

[looorg]

That's what I was fearing. I supposed that, since it is exactly the same ability as the submarine, which is a unit that is part of VP and is usually considered quite bad, it would be supported and balanced in some ways... I'll think about it.

When you put it like that I understand. Yes they are like ancient submarines in that regard. Except I guess with submarines you also have better ships that can sort of detect them somewhat better. Now I sort of just have to "hide" one tile out from the cost in the ocean and I'm basically untouchable. There is a period for that tho and I guess it's starting to go away since the AI are starting to get Caravels. But up until this time it's been a slaughter. I guess somewhat thematic with viking raids striking and then leaving. But still if you get caught out at the coast (cause you are bad at arithmetic and can't count to five (or if you will move move shot move move)) then you are in a world hurt from costal range and galleys etc. So I guess one should keep it, let it be fun while it lasts.

To me, that would remove what makes the Conquistadores truly unique in term of religion propagation. I don't want to overstep in that direction. I agree with you thematically, though.

You are probably right. That said Conqs give the religion. Perhaps just give the pantheon? (if that is even possible)? Not as strong but a little nudge on the way. In the above linked game silly Polynesia is running around with their ocean crossing missionaries and converting my colonies. War!

Do you feel like you have too many Skalds? I could reverse the UA pillage change if the GWriter part overflows too much.

Can you have to many Skalds (or writers)? OK yes probably. I basically treat them like deluxe settlers right now. But I think I settled most of the island I want so far so now I'm pushing for great works. It's getting a bit harder to maintain the 3-5 kills per turn as the tech goes up but lets say you get a Skald every 15ish turn now or so. Is getting a great writer every 15ish turn to much on marathon speed? Perhaps. I was at one time getting diplomatic hate from some rivals that are jealous of me due to my glorious culture. From the previous save I guess I'm setup to "farm" Egypt until the cows (or Skalds) come home. You could try and see how it feels.

 

[Hinin]

When you put it like that I understand. Yes they are like ancient submarines in that regard. Except I guess with submarines you also have better ships that can sort of detect them somewhat better. Now I sort of just have to "hide" one tile out from the cost in the ocean and I'm basically untouchable. There is a period for that tho and I guess it's starting to go away since the AI are starting to get Caravels. But up until this time it's been a slaughter. I guess somewhat thematic with viking raids striking and then leaving. But still if you get caught out at the coast (cause you are bad at arithmetic and can't count to five (or if you will move move shot move move)) then you are in a world hurt from costal range and galleys etc. So I guess one should keep it, let it be fun while it lasts.

A boring solution could be to change Sea Ghost into something more akin to Survivalism. Something like :
Sea Ghost - Always heal at the end of the turn. +20% CS against ranged attacks.

In that case, I would tweak the CS / RCS.

You are probably right. That said Conqs give the religion. Perhaps just give the pantheon? (if that is even possible)? Not as strong but a little nudge on the way. In the above linked game silly Polynesia is running around with their ocean crossing missionaries and converting my colonies. War!

I'll think about it.

Can you have to many Skalds (or writers)? OK yes probably. I basically treat them like deluxe settlers right now. But I think I settled most of the island I want so far so now I'm pushing for great works. It's getting a bit harder to maintain the 3-5 kills per turn as the tech goes up but lets say you get a Skald every 15ish turn now or so. Is getting a great writer every 15ish turn to much on marathon speed? Perhaps. I was at one time getting diplomatic hate from some rivals that are jealous of me due to my glorious culture. From the previous save I guess I'm setup to "farm" Egypt until the cows (or Skalds) come home. You could try and see how it feels.

That the problem with the function Trait_GreatPersonProgressFromKills : it doesn't scale with GameSpeed (it's always 4% per kill). At Standard speed, it's much more balanced, I think.

 

[looorg]

A boring solution could be to change Sea Ghost into something more akin to Survivalism. Something like :
Sea Ghost - Always heal at the end of the turn. +20% CS against ranged attacks.

I think they should retain the Sea Ghost. It's a passing phase really. As soon as the Caravels etc come out, or if they spot you by accident, you are toast. A caravel will basically one-shot, two-shot at most, a Knarr. So you have that room between early middle age and ren to play around with it, longer on marathon then normal obviously. You do use them afterwards but it becomes a lot more risky in that regard. I guess I have adapted the uboat tactic of wolfpacks and keep lots of them in groups so if some threat do appear they can all attack it and hopefully survive that initial first attack.

 

[gwennog]

I think they should retain the Sea Ghost.

I agree with Iooorg, I was the one who proposed to you to go to 5 move, it gives a small period before the caravels where the Knarrs are ships that can appear from nowhere. When these are in play, the hunt is on and the little resistance of the Knarrs rebalances everything. We are of course on the small historical period of the Viking raids on the European coasts. Removing that would damage the gameplay of that civ (like the already removed loot ).

That the problem with the function Trait_GreatPersonProgressFromKills : it doesn't scale with GameSpeed (it's always 4% per kill). At Standard speed, it's much more balanced, I think.

I haven't played with the latest version but I already found the 3% bonus strong, at 4% it must be too powerful.

 

[looorg]

Perhaps rename it from Skald to Great Skald? Simply cause when you enter industrial and can start to purchase them all the great people are in the same spot in the list but the Skald is down below in the list so it might not be as obvious? It doesn't change anything, it just makes it more clear it's a great person?

Interesting that the cost of the first Skald was just 3000 faith (normal price) and not whatever massive price other great people have. Such as the prophet that would kick off at 21300 faith due to all the previous prophets that have been spawned/born. But this doesn't take into account all the previous Skalds, I lost track of how many there have been by now.

Also there is no cooldown on buying them so you can just crank them out if you have the faith. That said the cost does increase every time you purchase one tho. This part is probably not intended and a bug?

 

[looorg]

It's the final third of the game left so I tried to estimate the amount of Skalds I have gotten but I'm somewhat at a loss. I lost count so long ago. But it's T906. The current number in the capital to create one is 36450 so I guess you can make a rough estimate from that if you count backwards how many there have been. For some comparison the second highest great person cost (to create the next one) in the capital is the Great Engineer at 5700 points ...

It's modern warfare now with planes and stuff so it's not unreasonable to get a Skald at least every 5th turn or so. About 5-9 units per turn tend to die during wars of the enemy. It's the peace-time in between that is now painful as it feels like the entire culture engine just stops as it can't compare to the free culture that the Skald brings into the world.

As noted I bought a few to but not to many, the cost to buy the next one is just 30k and I could do that at any time.

There are more great writers tho as bought Skalds doesn't increase the price at the capital for the once that you get "naturally". The price for the once you buy increase but it doesn't increase the cost of the natural once. So while you could count backwards how many I gained it will be the minimum amount since I also bought a few. A few was turned into cities, a few into great works and a few was used to push policies.

So is it to many? Perhaps. It hasn't done that much for the tech level but from a culture standpoint I'm crushing it. I am not about 4-5 policies ahead of the one in second place (China) and about 6-7 ahead of third and forth (Poly and it's either France, Denmark or Ethiopia).

But basically the first few once went to found cities on distant islands, then a fair amount went into great works and then in the end they are just treatises now that score 150k or around there per time used so probably to many Skalds.

 

[Hinin]

V.4 online :
- Reverted the percentage of GWriter points gained from kills from 4% to 3%
- Returned the Food / Faith pillage bonus, this time much weaker but present in all cities (allowing it to be relevant throughout the game without breaking the early game)
- Fixed a bunch of small issues with the ArtDefines of the Knarr (Scale, Sound when attacking etc)

 

[gwennog]

While waiting for Hinin's return, I took the liberty of making a version compatible with VP 3.0. I hope he won't mind.

I think it's one of the funniest civ mods to play, lots of possible combinations and the possibility of constantly playing skirmishes without necessarily really going to war.
It should work in VP 3.0 but I fixed a bug on the Stafrkyrkje which did not benefit of -1 Unhappiness from Religious Unrest.