JNES: Learning to Walk

I meant to say most people involed in world history havent heard of the place specifically

As said, I am not very sure about how famous it was.
well and good, but its hardly significant in the greater scheme of things- when people imagine trade, people dont imagin fur out posts, they imagine images of constantinople, with silks, and spice and eveything nice being traded at inflated prices and then set off the 4 corner sof the world. not a trade outpost, no matter how important that happens to be important on the fur trade routes.

Arkhangelsk was more of a city, though not a very large one, not a fur outpost. I already said that I don't know how it was perceived in the greater world, but I doubt that it is all that important.
just curious, how important is the northern sea route in Russian trade terms both today, and in prior areas, as compared to say, more warm water ports in the same area, or othe rports in russia proper in say the black sea.

Today, not very important - though I might be wrong, the late 19th century revival of its significance is over, though timber exports are still handled through it largely. However, BEFORE the conquest of Crimea and Ingria, it was the most important trade center in Russia as far as maritime trade was concerned. After the Time of Troubles, there was no other direct trade with England and Netherlands left at all, but even before it Arkhangelsk effectively succeeded Novgorod as Russia's primary trade center (in part, admittedly, due to the physical destruction of Novgorod - but by then it was, nonetheless, in decline). The fact that Peter had to essentially strangle the trade of Arkhangelsk to get the trade of St. Petersburg up does mean something.
In winter, isn't Arkhangel'sk closed off by ice, while Murmansk isn't due to the Gulf Stream current? Could be a reason for stealing trade...

Murmansk was only built in 1915, though. ;)

Regardless, what I mean is that if Arkhangelsk could, under certain conditions, thrive, then Bistonia - in a much warmer region and a port of two seas - is likely to be a very significant trade center.
Or perhaps this war will lead to a peaceful unification fo the three greater Avernite nations.

There is something very wrong about a war resulting in peaceful unification of all sides involved and a neutral. ;)
Even *I* knew who Xenophon was. *reatreats into the darkness again*

Just to spite you, I don't.

Because in Russian, his name is written differently. :p

IC:

"Bahris, Bahris..." - muttered gladad Rehtus - "He is mad."

The Chary elders nodded, agreeing.

"The Yatery are all mad."

They agreed again.

"They defeated the Tehry, and inherited their bad traits."

They agreed again. Chary elders were not known for their disobedience. Not ever since Rehtus rose to power.

"They also seek hegemony over the sely. Only this time, through trickery unworthy of any Harkans - yes, even the Yatery! And so far, it is working. But it will stop now."

Elders stood quietly.

"I ask you to rally the warriors. And the pupils. Send messangers to all... No. We know not how many of them are in the league with the Yatery. With Bahris." - Rehtus twitched with disdain - "We must surprise them, and defeat them on the battlefield - and then, from a position of strenght, we will propose an alliance to the others.

We set out tommorow."

Little did Rehtus know that a messanger was already riding to the Yatera hanakad. The aging warrior begun trusting his people in his old age, but it was too late...

---

Years passed since Bahris became the vodad of the Yatery. Rumors spread, brought by merchants that travelled all over the okad. Countries begun appearing all over the world, as powerful chieftains subjugated the weaker tribes and built empires - and, unlike what was the case before, a chosen few of those tribal empires consolidated. Strong tribes got stronger by subjugating, or even destroying the weak tribes. To consolidate their power, those surviving tribal empires adopted rule by succession - rulers treated their empires, their people, as simple property to be passed on. The people protested... but the rulers assembled armies of warriors that were loyal to them and them alone, warriors that kept the people down. Elders were ignored - at best. But without elders, ruling over tribes became nearly impossible... this doomed many of the surviving empires, but some survived even that. They created buerocratic systems, of appointed "sub-rulers". They centralized power around themselves, and they encouraged the growth of cities, for people in cities are easier to rule over. And so, empires lasted. And expanded, at the expense of more and more tribes... Forced people into armies, and conquered, and conquered...

Most people dismissed those rumors as foolish; the
lity do mention certain glady, rulers, trying to use their strenght in such a way... but gods always struck them down, somehow. But... According to the rumors, nobody seemed to strike down those empires. And some of those empires were said to be not too far away...

And Bahris remembered his dreams. A hellish huge city, from which HIS empire extended. He was to build such an empire. And to fight other empires. The
vodad was disturbed. For he remembered another dream that came to him again and again...

---

Again, the dream came. Bahris' right hand was still intact, but he himself was an old man. He stood, before a handful of warriors.

And he knew - he needed to rally them.

"They will have no mercy on us! Best to die in battle then live in shame! Did we lose our spirit, Yatery? Are we no longer warriors?"

And gradually, his comrades begun to group around him again.

"Perhaps we are doomed. But in that case, let us at least die gloriously, so that we will have nothing to be ashamed off! One more charge - and either the enemy breaks, either we die!"

"BAHRIS!!!" - shouted the warriors, as they charged into the countless black-clad metal hordes sent forth by Perad...

---

"Bahris!" - shouted somebody. Bahris opened his eyes and saw a small boy. Yes, Airus remembered what he told him. He needed to be awakened early.

Bahris thanked the boy and after morning exercises went to inspect his warriors. No, now they were something more.

They were an army.

They were drilled and trained, they had mock combat and real combat experience, they had a strict order of command... When Bahris begun his reforms, many protested, but he forced it through, persuading everybody that there are growing threats around them.

That was what he did afterwards as well, in his diplomatic campaign...

---

Bahris knew not how to interpret those dreams. But gradually, he understood what the gods - by now, he was confident that it was the gods - were trying to tell him. Either he will build an empire, either another empire will subjugate his people...

Our own evil, or someone else's evil. Is it not better to die in combat then live in shame of destroying the good old times?

Or maybe... maybe I can make our evil a lesser one? If all rests on me... and my right hand, Airus. If I manage to save Airus from being bitten off, like in that dream, and cast down into mediocrity, then perhaps I will already improve things. Perhaps... perhaps our empire will not be as evil as the other ones, if I really try.

Such were the thoughts of Bahris, and so he begun to do all this. He begun training an army, he married the Tajry
gladad's daughter, he negotiated and negotiated... gradually, a league of southwestern sely emerged, under his hegemony. To formalize it, he intended to arrange for a "promotion" - the elders and the glady reluctantly agreed to declare him the wergladad, the supreme ruler. The new league, the new EMPIRE was to be called Werkasely - "Great Realms".

Not all soutjwestern
sely submitted, though. With a heavy heart, Bahris heard out the messanger that was sent by his Chara sympathizers. They warned him that Rehtus was an enemy. He wanted to strike suddenly at him.

Bahris had to pre-empt that...


---

"They intend to strike first." - Bahris said to his troops - "But we will preempt them. We will defeat them before they are even ready to set out. Treachery must be punished."

The warriors nodded, in obedience. Disciplinne was hard to instill, but some semblance of it at least has now appeared.

Yatery, Tajry, Nitry... 3,000 warriors. Against them, some 800 Chara warriors, a thousand or so others, all resting in their hanakad. But eventually, the Chary begun coming out of the safety of their hanakad. Warriors built into a semblance of a formation. They set out, marching westwards, in the direciton of the Yatera hanakad...

...and then they were intercepted. Yatery and their allies charged from all feasable directions, shouting, throwing javelins and readying swords, axes, maces, spears... It was a massacre. Rehtus died early on, pierced by a javelin. Others tried to resist or fled. None of them survived. Traitors raised a white banner over the hanakad. Only 23 Yatery died; some 15 other allies. The Chary have been subdued.

Bahris sighed. He hated doing this, fighting fellow Harkans in such ways... But it was needed. Goals justified the means.

Now, he planned to ride for the Tajra hanakad. The Tajry were a respected tribe; there was no better place for a capital, where he would be declared the wergladad. After all that, he will bring out his enemies in the open. They will be compelled to act. And having dealt with them...

...he could strenghthen the empire further, so that one day, it can confront Perad effectively.

His thoughts were interrupted by a hurried messanger that dismounted and ran towards him.

"Greetingsovodadbahris..."

"Calm down, and repeat slowly."

"Greetings, vodad Bahris," - said the nervous messanger, after a while - "There are bad news from Swordlord Airus, in the Yatera hanakad."

Bahris slowly nodded. A realization struck him. Ofcourse, ofcourse!

"The people are up in arms." - finished the messanger.

To be continued.
 
@Aelx- Xenophon actually had a profound influence on history; because he wast strictlly a military man (in fact, even in that regard, he comes closer to an acvtual hero then a general in all resepcts, as it wasnt by choice that he did what he did, other then join up as a mercenary in the first place) the Marhc fo the 10,000 was infact the lynchpin in the fall fo the Persian empire of Greco-Maceodnian forces- it exposed the vast weaknesses of the Persian military machine, combined with the ineffectiness of Persian rule in it soutlaying Provinces which were essentially autonomous by that point, paying heed to Persia in name only; more over it was THE definitive argument to force the greeks into creating a combined arsm army, and when Xenophon joined up with the Spartan king in more or less a trouble making campaign in Persia, it enjoyed wild success, and in fact the only reason it was called off was because Spartan fortunes in greece were on the decline by the point- however, Xenophon was essentially the trail blazer for Alexander the great to follow up upon.

thiere is also the fact that he was a write, and wrote several books, some on history of the times (very valuble), other on topics ranging from Philosphy to horseback riding (and an interesting one on mounted tactics, infact)

@Das- your post proves my point- your city in the far north was nothign like a major constantinople like trade center; I'm not going to argue the point any further.
 
NO MORE! XEN! ENough changing NES's into OOC talks! Your waay over. Any of the next OOC posts that talk about history and other nonsense will be reported to a mod. You want to discuss history? go to the history forum. what to discuss POD's? go to the POD's thread. Not in NES's.
 
erez87 said:
NO MORE! XEN! ENough changing NES's into OOC talks! Your waay over. Any of the next OOC posts that talk about history and other nonsense will be reported to a mod. You want to discuss history? go to the history forum. what to discuss POD's? go to the POD's thread. Not in NES's.


when I las tlooked, you we'rent the god of NESing- its jasons NES, and if he wants me to stop, I'll respect his wishes. You however, are not Jason.
 
you we'rent the god of NESing

But arguably, I could claim that title. I officially claim it now and request that you repent. ;)

Jokes aside, just so that Jason knows, I support that initiative.
your city in the far north was nothign like a major constantinople like trade center

I never claimed it was a Constantinople-like trade center. Why? Because Arkhangelsk was a far northern trade city with only one sea. Whereas Bistonia's capital, whatever it is called, which you argued to be economically-weak, is something of a Constantinople-meets-Arkhangelsk.
 
das said:
I never claimed it was a Constantinople-like trade center.
then stop ****ing arguing with me.
 
Xen said:
when I las tlooked, you we'rent the god of NESing- its jasons NES, and if he wants me to stop, I'll respect his wishes. You however, are not Jason.

Ah, what an excellent point. A profound speech indeed. ;)

Sooo, now that the cats are out of the bag: I Like Sodas! With ice cream in them! Ice Cream Sodas!

And pizzas... good pizzas, not the slutty ones or the ones who don't dress on properly. I hate it when the intiniary just falls off, I want a thin crusty Italian thing. They're just great! Olives are ok, but the way people eat them and their taste... ewwww

An ice-cream cone was worth 1,000 points in Commander Keen 4.

When is Jason going to? * ... * Ohh,, thisi s Jason's NES?

Dude, like - UPDATE MAN! :)

Keep it real Mod! Keep it REAAAAAALLLL!

Wait, this isn't a NES? This is a creation thread innit?
 
Xen said:
@Aelx- Xenophon actually had a profound influence on history; because he wast strictlly a military man (in fact, even in that regard, he comes closer to an acvtual hero then a general in all resepcts, as it wasnt by choice that he did what he did, other then join up as a mercenary in the first place) the Marhc fo the 10,000 was infact the lynchpin in the fall fo the Persian empire of Greco-Maceodnian forces- it exposed the vast weaknesses of the Persian military machine, combined with the ineffectiness of Persian rule in it soutlaying Provinces which were essentially autonomous by that point, paying heed to Persia in name only; more over it was THE definitive argument to force the greeks into creating a combined arsm army, and when Xenophon joined up with the Spartan king in more or less a trouble making campaign in Persia, it enjoyed wild success, and in fact the only reason it was called off was because Spartan fortunes in greece were on the decline by the point- however, Xenophon was essentially the trail blazer for Alexander the great to follow up upon.
Basically restating in more words what I said last page. It's wonderful how people listen to me. Maybe I should start misspelling my words, acting hostile, and frequent the OT forums.

@das: Har har. BTW, the only hard copy I have of the Anabasis (Xenophons' book on the March of the Ten Thousand, one of the original military adventure stories) I printed off at school a few days ago. Anyone know where it is?
 
Still need to know wether or not we can build projects/wonders. Its not mentioned in the rules and i have had no response from Jason as of yet to my project proposal so I really need to know.

Toteone: You are completely wrong! The only way for a pizza to fulfill its destiny is fo rit to be a deep dish Chicago style pizza. Now THAT is a real meal.
 
Jason needs to update.

So... this Xenophon guy, I gather he was kickaxe? ... kickass
Did he have many children? How did he fare when he got back to Sparta?

Israelite: You are a heretic! Tho must be put to the stake! Deep gut-busters are murderers and the spawn of the devil! What's the use of eating a taco-like pizza and being full if you're insides are boiling away?
 
Toteone said:
So... this Xenophon guy, I gather he was kickaxe? ... kickass
Did he have many children? How did he fare when he got back to Sparta?

He was an Athenian, but the expedition was originally led by a Spartan general. It was actually pan-Hellenic in makeup. After the expedition, he wrote many books on strategy, other military things, history, Socratic dialogues, and a few biographies (including Anabasis, Cyropaedia, On Horsemanship, Agesilaus, Hellenica, and Memorabilia). During the Corinthian war, the period of Theban supremacy, and then into the early Macedonian period, he was a military observer and commented on the developing ways of war, including first the shift to light-armed troops, then to the oblique phalanx, and Iphicratid hoplites. Although perhaps not as well-known as Sun Tzu, his works, despite having a more adventure-novel tone, are still read by military academy students around the world.
 
Daschpmg: You know, you pretty much repeated what I said a while back. Thanks! It lets me know that I'm not a loon with a twisted perception of military history.

Toteone: You are a heretic! Chicago style is the way to go. That New York and California stuff taht people call pizza is nothing more than than a tortilla with tomatoe sauce and mozzerella. Bow down to Chicago! Bow to Chicago!
 
Israelite9191 said:
Daschpmg: You know, you pretty much repeated what I said a while back. Thanks! It lets me know that I'm not a loon with a twisted perception of military history.
...which I said even before that. Thanks for spelling my name correctly. It's such a confidence booster.
 
@Dachspmg- works for me ;) I got caught up is replyign to the post myself, I didnt notice yours ;)
 
Post addition: The Spartan general's name was Clearchus, I think. He, and the other generals, were captured by the Persians immediately after Cunaxa by a ruse and murdered; after that, Xenophon took command with some of the remaining Spartans.
 
Xen said:
@Aelx- Xenophon actually had a profound influence on history; because he wast strictlly a military man (in fact, even in that regard, he comes closer to an acvtual hero then a general in all resepcts, as it wasnt by choice that he did what he did, other then join up as a mercenary in the first place) the Marhc fo the 10,000 was infact the lynchpin in the fall fo the Persian empire of Greco-Maceodnian forces- it exposed the vast weaknesses of the Persian military machine, combined with the ineffectiness of Persian rule in it soutlaying Provinces which were essentially autonomous by that point, paying heed to Persia in name only; more over it was THE definitive argument to force the greeks into creating a combined arsm army, and when Xenophon joined up with the Spartan king in more or less a trouble making campaign in Persia, it enjoyed wild success, and in fact the only reason it was called off was because Spartan fortunes in greece were on the decline by the point- however, Xenophon was essentially the trail blazer for Alexander the great to follow up upon.

thiere is also the fact that he was a write, and wrote several books, some on history of the times (very valuble), other on topics ranging from Philosphy to horseback riding (and an interesting one on mounted tactics, infact)

*blinks a few times* Thanks for the lesson xen and Dachspmg :D

Israelite9191 said:
And why did the mafiosi choose Chicago? Because we've got the only pizza worthy of the mafia. Bow down before Chicago! Long live Chicago!

What is this about? :confused:
 
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