JOE-05 - The Crusades

[vra379971]

Arrrggh. I'll be honest I wish we had at least fishing back. =(

*sigh*

Oh well, I suppose a settler factory is always useful. I completely agree with your plan there JesusOnEez, so go to it I guess.

What I'm seeing is a fast warrior build (although I rarely build them), and have him throughly explore near city sites. After that warrior, we should work to getting 3 settlers out by the time pottery rolls around. Any, with THIS much food, should be quite doable.

 

[JesusOnEez]

I agree with going Wheel/ pottery before Alphabet , but that's because I favour early cottages. With all this food is it better to go for early scientists?

I'm thinking the exact same thing. Rome could be a good research centre and GP farm if handled correctly. As soon as writing's in, whipping a Library would be a no brainer to run a Science Specialist, and then build an academy with the resultant Great Person. Also maybe Literature for Great Library here...bit of a sideline tech though.

Certainly we need wheel to hook the metals, and on Prince the other ai won't have too much to trade for yet. Alphabet to trade for IW ?

I'd rather the early game was geared towards getting IW as soon as possible to whip those Praets. I'm hoping we'll be able to wipe out a near neighbour and steal his/her capital before the AD's.

I was thinking second city Oracle to pop HR and then cottage the capital with a big population- if we dont have really near neigbors- after the initial whip for a settler. But that's my usual style and I'm very happy to go another way. ie , use the whip more in the early stages.

Oracle for Horseback Riding? Am I reading that right?

I think we'll be ignoring the Oracle as we're not going to be researching any religious tech for a while. I thought maybe slipping Mysticsm in for Obelisks would be an idea, but lately I've been using the strategy of whipping a Library as soon as possible in new cities, as that give +2 culture as opposed to +1...require a bit of growth though.

We'll have to see how the first 30 turns plays out and decide more solidly from there. Remember, this is Epic, so even with a 30 turn first set, I'll probably only manage two techs in my proposed research path...I'll be playing after work today, so not too much longer to wait.

@Cosmichail - Any input? I've learned to trust your judgement from previous games!

 

[JesusOnEez]

What I'm seeing is a fast warrior build (although I rarely build them), and have him throughly explore near city sites. After that warrior, we should work to getting 3 settlers out by the time pottery rolls around. Any, with THIS much food, should be quite doable.

I might skip the Warrior, depends on what the landmass looks like from initial exploration with the first Warrior. However, yes...with this much food, once it's hooked up, we'll be able to whip Settlers and expand pretty fast. Health I don't see being a problem for a while, what with the Cows and Fish, but with all the whipping we'll be doing, I'm thinking Drama may become more important for boosting happiness unless there's some happiness resources within reach...remember, Rome's borders will expand pretty fast due to being a Holy City. This could be very handy if it gains us early access to happiness to offset the whip!

 

[JesusOnEez]

ROOSTER - Strict 24/48 Hour Got It/Report
JesusOnEez - Up - 30 Turns
Cosmichail - On Deck - 20 Turns
Rince - 15 Turns
Mice - 10 Turns
Vra379971 - 10 Turns

Just a reminder of the rooster and initial turnset lengths. Just a thought...who was it that started called it the "rooster"?

 

[knigh+]

In the 13th century, the flourishing Ottoman Empire was making inroads into europe, and carrying with it the religion of Islam. Threatening both Christianity as a whole and more directly, the Byzantine Empire, Alexius I contacted the Pope for his blessing and help for a religious crusade against the Turks!

I'm no historian, but the above is the basics of how The Crusades got started. I've tried to make the game as accurate as possible with regards to the countries and civilizations involved in The Crusades. There is no Byzantine leader or civ in Warlords, so I've used Julius Caesar of the Romans. The Ottomans obviously do exist it the game so that bit was easy. The other civs in the game had involvement in The Crusades, but you'll discover them on the way.

Um...

1- Crusades started in 11th century
2- Their (Catholic crusades) reasons had nothing to do with Turks
3- Ottomans were established as an independent country in 1299, so they weren't even around during crusades.

You could overcome #3 by changing the Ottomans to Seljuks.

 

[JesusOnEez]

Um...

1- Crusades started in 11th century
2- Their (Catholic crusades) reasons had nothing to do with Turks
3- Ottomans were established as an independent country in 1299, so they weren't even around during crusades.

You could overcome #3 by changing the Ottomans to Seljuks.

1 -
(Checks...) Your not wrong! I'll amend the initial blurb.

2-
The initial crusade was against the Seljuk Turks, as a response to attacks on Byzantine areas. Originally, Alexius I wanted help with defence of the Byzantine Empire, but the Pope decided called for more direct action.

3-
Again, your not wrong, and Crusades directly against the Ottoman Empire didn't start in earnest until the last of the Crusades in the late 15th and early 16th centuries, but the Seljuks certainly were part of and influenced the beginnings of the Ottomon Empire, so I'll leave it as it is.

I know Wikipedia can't be entirely relied upon but;

The core of the Ottoman Empire, the Kayi tribe of Oğuz Turks, was part of the westward Turkic migrations from Central Asia that began during the 10th century. The Seljuks settled in Persia during this period and began to push west into Anatolia at the beginning of the 11th century. Suleyman Shah, grandfather of Osman I, was drowned in the river Euphrates and his tomb resides in modern-day Syria. This movement brought them into conflict with the Byzantine Greeks.

The permanent foothold in Anatolia, the Anatolian Seljuk Sultanate, was established after a historic victory at the Battle of Manzikert against the Byzantine Empire in 1071.

EDIT: First post blurb changed to be a bit more accurate!

 

[knigh+]

2- The initial crusade was against the Seljuk Turks, as a response to attacks on Byzantine areas. Originally, Alexius I wanted help with defence of the Byzantine Empire, but the Pope decided called for more direct action.

Crusades started in response to the burning of the Church of Nativity in Jerusalem. Catholics didn't care about helping Byzantines. Actually Fourth crusade (1204) pillaged and plundered Constantinople, and did not even bother to continue to the muslim lands.

 

[mice]

Oracle for Horseback Riding? Am I reading that right?

No, Hereditary Rule. For big population and cottage spam, but the whip approach sounds like the way to go here. I'm a bit shy with the whip so it'll be good for me .

 

[JesusOnEez]

Crusades started in response to the burning of the Church of Nativity in Jerusalem. Catholics didn't care about helping Byzantines. Actually Fourth crusade (1204) pillaged and plundered Constantinople, and did not even bother to continue to the muslim lands.

The Crusades were a series of military conflicts of a religious character waged by Christians from 1095-1291, usually sanctioned by the Pope in the name of Christendom,[1] with the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the sacred "Holy Land" from Muslim rule and originally launched in response to a call from the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire for help against the expansion of the Muslim Seljuq dynasty into Anatolia.

We're both right...what your saying was what I've simply put as "...Pope called for more direct action." We're playing it from the Byzantine's point of view...not the Pope's, and that's the angle I've taken in the initial blurb.

 

[JesusOnEez]

No, Hereditary Rule. For big population and cottage spam, but the whip approach sounds like the way to go here. I'm a bit shy with the whip so it'll be good for me .

Ah, Monarchy!

 

[Cosmichail]

I like the Oracle too for getting Monarchy but occassionally going for metal casting can be interesting too. Building a forge early is great for early engineer and even get the pyramids. I think too being Romans we are definitely going to want that iron very soon. So since we are warring we should go military path once we get those worker techs researched that we lost so yep fishing no. 1.

Good whipping capitol and defintely going to need a production city for praets.

 

[JesusOnEez]

Goals
Research Fishing
Research Mining then some of Bronze Working
Build A Worker & Mine The Hill
Explore

Preturn
The Warrior won't reveal anything new wherever I move him...I decide to send him on the usual "circle around the capital" exploration pattern, which turns out difficult considering our landmass...you'll see.

I found Rome where the Settler stands, pop into WorldBuilder and we are now the Christian Holy City!

All the tiles produce the same yield, so I can't improve Fishing (9) or the Worker (23) at the moment.

Turn 1-2
Nothing

Turn 3
Our borders pop and net us Hunting from the goody hut. Shame it wasn't Mining! Still, it'll get us Animal Husbandry a little quicker than expected.

Turn 4
Nothing

Turn 5
Hey! One of those happy resources I was hoping for!

Turn 6-9
Nothing

Turn 10
Fishing comes in. I've clicked directly on Bronze Working. At current rates, Mining (11), BW (26), Worker (14). I decide to work the lake, making Mining (9), and the Worker (18) without sacrificing growth. Faster research is more important right now, and the fact the Worker will take a little longer won't make a huge difference and we'll be chopping/whipping the next build of Work Boats.

Turn 11-16
Nothing

Turn 17
Look who shows up from the East!

Turn 18
Nothing

Turn 19
Mining comes in and BW is now in (18). Still working the lake. Worker in (9). This'll work out reasonably well, as the Worker can get mining. When he finishes that, BW will be ready in a few turns for chopping/slavery.

Turn 20
Nothing

Turn 21
BFIDL

Turn 22-26
Nothing

Turn 27
Annoyingly, our Warrior dies to a Lion. No more exploring...maybe Cosmic can find room for one in his whipping/chopping phase!

Turn 28
Worker finishes and heads of for the Grass Hill. We stop working the lake to aid the building of a Work Boat (23 from 46). More hammers towards the next one with a whip or chop that way, and BW is due in 11. I figure the Worker will have nothing to do for maybe 3 turns once the Mine is finished.

Turn 29
Nothing

Turn 30
Worker starts Mine.

 

[JesusOnEez]

Here's the world as we know it. Sorry about the crap graphics quality, my graphics card died recently and i had to go back to an old GeForce 3 I had laying around.

As you can see, weird shape so far...pity the Worker died. I think I may have miscounted my turns as well...might have played 29...

ROOSTER - Strict 24/48 Hour Got It/Report
JesusOnEez - Just Played
Cosmichail - Up - 20 Turns
Rince - On Deck - 15 Turns
Mice - 10 Turns
Vra379971 - 10 Turns

I've attached the 3130BC save and the start save in case you wanted a look.

So, Cosmihail is up. I'm sure you've got your own ideas but as you're well aware, generally we're hoping for a Praet rush I think! I'd carry on as is, cranking out the two workboats...we need another Warrior now as well. I think this;

Fishing>BW>Hunting>Animal Husbandry>Wheel>Pottery>Iron Working>Beeline Alphabet.

Was the tech path I was looking towards...if you can imrove on it, do so! Remember, we already got Hunting from a Goody Hut, so that'll speed things up a bit.

 

[mice]

So Freedy came from the east on thais same landmass? That's good for us, bad for him. The second city site looks pretty clear.

 

[JesusOnEez]

So Freedy came from the east on thais same landmass? That's good for us, bad for him. The second city site looks pretty clear.

I'm thinking of the hill north of the Warrior in the screenshot...although we would need Agriculture to hook up the Rice, which isn't on our initial tech path. We'll see what Cosmichail comes up with as a plan of action. He's usually better than myself at city placement.

 

[Cosmichail]

Jesusoneez - the suggested settling spot is ideal and if I see it right it will also serve as a passage (panama canal) saving us having to go around the landmass. So I'll settle there and follow tech path as suggested. Good on getting hunting that helps.

Got it and will play sometime tomorrow

 

[JesusOnEez]

You're right, I always forget that you can sail "through" cities in this situation.

 

[Cosmichail]

Byzantine Empire Alexius I

Mostly hitting enter this round and worker had very little to do after building the mine. I was going to see if he would squire with the Black Knight but he feared the possibility of getting impaled. (hee hee)

Turns 1-9 nothing much happened.

The glorious year of 2860 we discover Bronze Working….

Once the mine was built the city worked that tile until the workboat was completed and then worked the netted fish to grow in two turns and work both fishes and mine afterwards building the second workboat in 10 turns. I DO think we need to build a warrior after workboats for scouting and protection.

As to “The Passage” well copper popped up there as well:

Do we still settle on the passage spot for easy maneuvering around our landmass or we settle closer to the copper which likely can’t be worked as well as the gold due to very little food. The rice will yield us 4F since it isn’t irrigated and that will be the main source of food there. I think we should still settle on the passage spot and let the culture expand to the copper. At least now we will be able to build axes and can avoid archery and use beakers for something more important. Definitely a good production site but too bad not enough food to work a lot of mines.

After researching BW started AH which has about 5 turns left on it and workboat about 6 turns.

Suggested buildpath:
Finish workboat/ warrior/ settler

I did not revolt to slavery just yet and did not chop as we are going to need those forests there for any kind of production in that city. Plus at this point chopping yields very little hammers so probably better to get the whip out soon but we should build granary first.

Definitely need to scout a lot more to know our surroundings and where we can settle our third city. Hopefully there are better sites out there with more food/production together as our second city site is very food poor. Hopefully we will also find some good happy resources too.

ROOSTER - Strict 24/48 Hour Got It/Report
JesusOnEez - Just Played
Cosmichail - just played
Rince - UP - 15 Turns
Mice - on deck -10 Turns
Vra379971 - 10 Turns

EDIT: I just realized that once we get CS we can irrigate to the second city site from the lake near Rome. I don't think sailing should be too far off either so that the lake will get the extra food and the sea tiles. What's the plan for Rome cottage it completely but leave room to irrigate to the second city site so gold and copper could be worked. If that is the case then settling on the plain tile next to the passage to catch the copper might be considered for better production down the road but we'd need a border pop. As to irrigating to second city it may work or may not as those two plains hills are in the way but the grass tile above may work to irrigate rice and other tiles to add food to site. I also see a hut/sheep so sailing would help for a galley/scout to see what the hut would net us. A galley could also scout the area to see what else is available for us to settle.

 

[mice]

Cosmichail,could you show which tile is the pssage spot. Im a bit confused about that. Also we are creative so we can count on the copper soonish.

 

[Cosmichail]

@mice

We are Julius Caesar which in warlords is imperialistic/organized. I think you are thinking about Augustus who is creative. We will need a culture push there once built but as proposed by Jesusoneez we go for writing and use libs for culture. Rome's UB is forum which gives 25% GPP rate. Good for GP farm if that's what we decide to do with Rome.

Here's the passage highlighted.

EDIT: looking again it looks like irrigation to second site is NOT possible. Alas......(maybe from the other side where corn is)