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JOE-05 - The Crusades

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by JesusOnEez, Feb 28, 2007.

  1. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    Er...maybe I should've made my post clearer. I meant;

    IW>Agriculture>Alphabet

    After the current order of things i.e. Wheel/Pottery/IW...

    My bad, should've made it clearer. Don't worry about the Settler thing, basically I wanted three cities by the time IW came around, and we've got that easily.

    VRA, you're up. Although Iron Working is the focus of this early game, we would be missing out on Cottage builds, so i would suggest going back to Pottery, before continuing IW and beelining Alphabet.

    You don't have to do everything I say y'know!

    Also I'm the wrong person to be asking "how many hammers does this chop"...etc. I play very much by "feel" and don't get into the "math" of it all.

    Louie! Grrrrr...can we kill him first? We could use a Galley as a "stepping stone" to his landmass.
     
  2. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    For the most part, the Byzantine Empire was made up of the old East and West Roman Empires, united under Constantine I. Renaming our capital Byzantium or Constantinople might be more appropriate as Rome was less important at this point in history, but most other city names are the same as their old Roman names.
     
  3. mice

    mice Moose

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    Yeah, the switch to pottery is best. Your job Vra, sorry about that.

    It's a good idea to get some cottages going there or we wont be able to expand with those Preats.

    I also hate Louis, and with Hatty Hindu, there will be some blood spilt.
     
  4. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    If I recall from our whipping expert in SGOTM it's 45 hammers per pop. That changes with forges/engineer and bureaucracy I do believe. So if there's a forge then 45 hammers + 25% same goes for chops so better to chop after math with a forge then not. VQ's SGOTM02 has some good stuff on whipping posted by namliaM who is quite good with the whip.

    We are going after the iron which is great but another thing we will need to be true crusaders is horsies. Don't see any nearby so we should scout aggressively to find those too. Getting iron and horses is paramount to give our squires lots of work tending to the Crusader Knights. I will be known as the "Black Knight" who actually was a good guy.

    Even though Louis isn't Islamic he's just as annoying overall especially with that industrious/creative trait so I say we smashy him as soon as we can.

    @Mice I mentioned too in one of my posts about IW being after wheel/pottery since we need the roads and granaries. No biggie just remember it will start to decay in 10 turns if we don't start it before then.
     
  5. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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    Got it....
     
  6. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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    Turn 0: Gave the troops marching orders. Time to do a bit of scouting...

    Turns 1 and 2: We have a doozy of a continent. I've NEVER seen formations like this. As for tech, I've decided to chop on to IW. Pottery is a side trip that can wait, and I set the other city to increase population. We also need Mysticsm to grow some culture and work that GOLD!

    Turns 3 and 4: Conticent exploration continues. I know I'm risking barbs, but I have warriors on standby from the capital if needed. I also decide to whip a settler, and get out that 3rd city. As for where to put it...

    I dont know. Where SHOULD I put it? South of Rome? Or off NE of our other Copper town? I'm favouring a spot betwixt both towns, near the sea. Good Cottage town, with spots for growth.
     
  7. mice

    mice Moose

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    Sorry about that tech mistake vra. After, writing or Pottery? We should come to an agreement about cottages or scientists as first priority in Rome. Food = scientists, but I feel uncomfortable without cottages. It's just a question of which first. We can use both, 2 scientists in Rome and plenty of cottages.

    next city, how about wait for the iron to show up?

    I like cosmichail's note about horses, and personally favour an economy build up followed by a knights, trebs ,pikes and maces war. That's more like the crusades.
     
  8. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    vra, the general consensus was to wait to see where Iron is before settling city number three. Fair enough carrying on with IW as research, but isn't our Worker now hanging around doing nothing?

    mice, I'm tempted to go for a GP farm at Rome, and we can mostly only build cottages until CS anyway. We can certainly work all cottages on grassland in Rome, and still have room for a good few specialists if we want.

    I wouldn't waste time with Mysticism. We'll be going IW>Pottery>Writing, then whipping Libs for +2 culture. That's not going to lose us much more time than diverting to Mysticism, and whipping Monuments...I HATE whipping Monuments...seems like such a waste.

    Also, if Iron crops up close, I'm still up for a Praet rush...we'll be pretty early with them. If Iron isn't around, then we can trade for AH and beeline Knights/Maces etc for a middle ages war...yes it'd be more like the Crusades, but I'm in a bloodthirsty mood!
     
  9. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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    Nah, our worker has some highway building to do. And you can never have enough of those.

    I have a practice to "prepare" untaken land for future settlement, and thus the question. I'll sit the settler then.
     
  10. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    Screenshot! Screenshot! Screenshot! :thumbsup:
     
  11. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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    Happily. Will be home in three hours or so...
     
  12. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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  13. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    I got it.

    I also have a cunning plan for the longer term.

    If we have Iron in the near vicinity, I'd like to get Sailing whilst on a Praet build up, build a Galley, and use it as a stepping stone shortcut to the French to annihilate them...save walking around the weird shape continent. I'm assuming that the French are on our landmass (which it looks like they are now it's been explored a bit more).

    With a "stepping stone" galley there, we could get troops to France pretty quick, whereas France would have to go the long way around, and our land is easily defendable from ground troops at the moment, 'cos we know where they'll come from.

    As for where to Settle number three? Again, Iron will depend on that, but I'm thinking either 1NW of southern rice, or the hill north of the cows in the east of the screenshot.
     
  14. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    Jesusoneez....

    Only if we had amphibious units even better. Although Louis's creative trait makes for a lot of culture defense so that would only be good with CR3 berserker units.

    As to settling I would say move out to the cows (I presume you mean east of Antium yes) as the further we spread out at first the better. Leave that rice spot until we have no room to settle. We should also scout more of the island and see what it has.

    Vra I totally agree land is crap and shape awkward. Only one happy resource too but we can't work it until CS. That makes me on deck...
     
  15. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    The culture bonus will be a *****, but I'd say even if we can't take his capital out, we should be able to take two or three recently settled cities with six or seven Praets with CR1. He'll probably have just Archers, so the first attack may need at worst two Praets per Archer, then we should have better odds in the next city with CR2 promotions (or maybe even Cover)?

    Question, would Cover work better than CR1 if Louis has all Archers for attacking a city?
     
  16. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    Turn 0 - 1420BC
    Rome looks good. Growth in 2 turns to work the Mine I should think...I signposted the possible site for our third Settler to go dependant on Iron location.

    Turn 1 - 1390BC
    Warrior is on auto-explore, but he is heading south. If we're settling anywhere, it's going to be the north of our continent, which is still shrouded in fog, so I change his orders and send him manually exploring to the north.

    Turn 2 - 1360BC
    Marked some more possible city sites, notable on the continent to the west. If Louis and Fred decide to expand north, we could be out of room very quickly.

    Rome grows and is working the Lake and Mine (as well as the two Fish tiles). This reduces IW by 1 turn to 6, and the Barracks build by 3 turns to 12. I could whip the Barracks for 1 pop, but I want to save the whipping for Praets, although this does depend on barb activity later.



    Turn 3 - 1330BC
    Nothing.

    Turn 4 - 1300BC
    The Workboat has reached German borders. I've sent it to a marked site near Rome where it should begin to explore the western continent. Here's a look at the borders of Fred and Louis that we know so far.



    Turn 5/6 - 1270BC/1240BC
    Nothing.

    Turn 7 - 1210BC
    Antium finishes Worker, start Warrior. Cosmic may want to research Agriculture instead of Pottery as this city is going nowhere until that Rice is hooked up. I'll leave that to him!

    Turn 8 - 1180BC
    Do we have Iron anywhere? I should say so! :cool:



    I SWEAR on my rotund bottom that I didn't add this in Worldbuilder. It's been quite amusing actually, with all the talk of the importance of Iron, I knew it was there from when I made Rome the Christian Holy City in Worldbuilder...it's been fun pretending I didn't know it was there!

    The fogbuster Warrior south of Rome is now heading to Antium as barb Warriors are starting to lurk. Cosmic may need to concentrate on a few Axe builds once Copper is hooked up, mostly for Settler escort, but we need city defence as well. I see a lot of military builds in the next few turnsets.



    Rome is unhappy, but I suggest whipping an Axe or two when the Copper is roaded to escort the Settler in Rome. That road vra built seems all the more important now...nice one. :goodjob:

    Pottery is started (9 turns), although like I say, Cosmic may want to change to Agriculture...I'll leave that to him.

    Turn 9 - 1150BC
    Nothing

    Turn 10 - 1120BC
    The Worker has started mining the Iron.

     
  17. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    ROOSTER - Strict 24/48 Hour Got It/Report
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    Vra379971

    Just a few things to remember...there's a sign for where the Workboat is heading. Once it gets there, it should explore the western continent where I have marked a couple of very preliminary city sites (as there's still a lot of fog around there). We may have to expand to this area quite fast if Louis and Fred expand north fast. I believe Hatty is south of Louis and Fred, so we can probably leave her alone for now.

    Also, we do not have any religion...normally I wouldn't bother until we have Organised Religion, but Rome is unhappy, and converting will put it back to happy. I'll leave that to Cosmic, but it will annoy Hatty. However, she's so far away that it won't be a problem.

    We need military escorts/defence. We should whip a couple of Axes as soon as humanly possible...they'll be able to deal with any barb Warriors and Archers that'll turn up in the forseeable future.

    Over to you Cosmic!
     

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  18. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    Got it and will play tomorrow morning....
     
  19. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    Turn 1

    Yep agriculture would be nice now for the rice but it’s 8 turns and pottery has already some beakers invested. Rather than change and risk losing those invested beakers (beakers bleed away after ten turns) leave pottery for the granaries and cottages.

    Also see that we automated the WB to explore the landmass that is still covered under fog. At some point we will need to get some horses which I see very far away from us. Send warrior out that way to see that area better.

    We also revolt to Christianity.

    Turn 2

    Nothing much Judaism is discovered FIDL.



    Turn 3

    How come settler is sleeping. He’s bored and wants to go forth and multiply. I see the third city site but have a couple of observations:

    1. Settling on the hill leaves out the wheat
    2. Settling on the hill removes the hill for production later
    3. I see that the wheat it is intended for a another city near iron/wheat

    I would much prefer to see a city work two food resources and have a hill to work too. On the hill it could only work the cows and as far as I can see there are no sea resources to compliment the hill spot. Sorry Jesus but I think that settling between the wheat/cow is much better in the long run. We will get instant health from the wheat which we will need soon. I was contemplating trekking out to horse site but as I approached with warrior I came across one of Louis’s settlers. He didn’t settle near the horses but near the marble obviously to get that hooked up for all the wonders he’s going to build.

    Turn 4

    Rome builds a barracks and starts on an axe. The settler is already on the way to the site between wheat/cows.

    Turn 5

    Whip axe in Rome but let the second axe build on it’s own. We have too much whipping unhappy in Rome and should leave it for a bit. Cumae is settled and we also take out a barb warrior.

    Turn 6-8

    We discover pottery and start on agriculture. Tweak Rome for commerce to research quicker.



    Turn 9-10

    We built a cottage at Rome and are working it now. Although it’s only producing one coin in 15 turns it turns into a hamlet and will yield better than lake. Here’s the new city we settled:



    I hope that’s ok as I just felt settling on the hill would waste the hill and we would miss out on the wheat. At the rate the AI settles on Warlords the faster we grab land the better I think. Once we see what’s at the other landmass we can make a decision as what to do then settling wise. We do need those horses but it’s too far for now and by the time we get there either spawn monster (Hatty/Louis) will have grabbed it. Rome builds settlers fairly fast so any needed settlers can be built in 8 turns.


    Last Turn Observations:

    We need culture growth. (either through monuments or religion)
    Possible solution for now.

    Operation culture boost path 1:

    1. Research writing 13 turns at current research. Libs need 135 hammers or 4 pop to whip. OR
    2. Research mysticism 7 turns then meditation 11 turns. Blah 18 turns but much less hammer investment by just building missionaries. (60 hammers each only 2 pop whip).

    Option 1 benefits are only felt in Rome as the other cities do not have any science to speak of.

    Option 2 offers benefits of monastary/happy and culture growth. Since we need to spread the religion personally I like option 2.

    The above also addresses happy problems (limit 6 and at 5 pop it’s 6 unhappy due to whipping) I understand we are going to use libs but that requires a lot more hammers and we need to turn our cities to Christian anyways so getting religion to our cities will help immensely.
    (before any other spread) (+1happy+1culture)

    We need sailing too soon for lighthouse so that the lake and nets can yield us more food.

    One last note is that Antium is not a city that should be whipped until we get more food there. The rice will just be enough to work the gold and getting that hooked up will help with happy too but we need culture there. Ergo the more need to get culture happening sooner than later.
     

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  20. Rince

    Rince King

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    Got it. Will probably play it tomorrow.

    Greetings,

    Rince
     

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