John Lennon was Murdered 40 Years Ago

[Patine]

No, I understood the stretched, hyperbolic correlation. I just think the conflation is excessive to the extreme, when simply disagreeing with their opinion would suffice.

It's not hyperbolic (especially by the standards of an Internet and public discourse today where almost everything is already somewhat hyperbolic to begin with, especially relative to not so long ago - probably the result of irresponsible, untrustworthy, sensationalist, "screaming-headlines-and-clickbait-media"). It seems my analogy just strikes an uncomfortable nerve, and now an attempt to brush it under the carpet and denounce the comparison for daring to be said rather than being addressed with any sincerity is what's being attempted.

Whether he would have done it or not is beside the point. I was directly responding to what someone else said, I wasn't the one to bring it up. The point is generally speaking, "at least they didn't do something" that they never could have done even if they wanted to is not an accomplishment in and of itself. Ergo, an irrelevant thing to bring up. I don't think he deserved to get killed because of what I assume he might or might not have done if those options were realistically on the table. I'm condemning explicitly for things he HAD done, in conjunction with pretending to be the complete anthesis of those things.

You're still saying he DESERVED to be murdered, and that is where I have to call you (or anyone else) out on. That way of thinking is reprehensible and soulless - but not, in MY view, worthy of being murdered - obviously another area we differ on...

 

[caketastydelish]

Well, frankly I think the world is better off without people like that.

 

[caketastydelish]

Yeah I dislike Bono for this where Gene Simmons is an honest arsehole. Gene just straight up says he likes money and admits to doing stuff purely for the money.

Bono is definitely a hypocrite but ironically more people hate Bono for it than Lennon, even though Lennon was even more hypocritical. Bono has "left-wing politics" but never claimed to be an outright communist/anarchist whereas Lennon pretty much did. He also treated his wife and children better to the point of no meaningful comparison. It seems to me that people give Lenon a completely free pass just because he was killed, and that's not a point of view I can concur with.

 

[Zardnaar]

Bono is definitely a hypocrite but ironically more people hate Bono for it than Lennon, even though Lennon was even more hypocritical. Bono has "left-wing politics" but never claimed to be an outright communist/anarchist whereas Lennon pretty much did. He also treated his wife and children better to the point of no meaningful comparison. It seems to me that people give Lenon a completely free pass just because he was killed, and that's not a point of view I can concur with.

There's also cultural tendencies not to speak Ill of the dead.

Michael Jackson at best was weird at worst a terrible human being but he still has his fans.

 

[caketastydelish]

There's also cultural tendencies not to speak Ill of the dead.

Michael Jackson at best was weird at worst a terrible human being but he still has his fans.

Well, that comes down to whether you think allegations are true or not. If you believe he committed the crimes he was accused of, then it's perfectly reasonable to celebrate his death even if someone had killed him. Personally, I think he was innocent.

 

[Zardnaar]

Well, that comes down to whether you think allegations are true or not. If you believe he committed the crimes he was accused of, then it's perfectly reasonable to celebrate his death even if someone had killed him. Personally, I think he was innocent.

Not sure on the innocent part at best weird with a very poor judgement capacity.

Even at the time an adult male wanting to hang around with kids was weird espicially for unsupervised sleepovers.

 

[Patine]

Well, frankly I think the world is better off without people like that.

Well, frankly, I don't believe you or I are fit to be judges of that - and those who take such a "judgement," into their own hands are very serious criminals of the worst sort themselves - whether they're vigilante, vengeance, or delusional justice types, and it's murder by other private citizens, or it's execution, and murder by the state or government - it's still murder, and such judgements on the lives of others is a soulless and intolerable crimes for which severe (but not capital, in my view) punishment is needed.

 

[Patine]

then it's perfectly reasonable to celebrate his death even if someone had killed him. Personally, I think he was innocent.

CELEBRATING someone's death, no less. The more you say in this thread, the more unpleasant of a person you reveal yourself to be.

<Self-Edit>

 

[caketastydelish]

Not sure on the innocent part at best weird with a very poor judgement capacity.

Even at the time an adult male wanting to hang around with kids was weird espicially for unsupervised sleepovers.

Because people have straight-up accused me of being a pedophile before despite those allegations having absolutely no basis in reality. I asked someone why who didn't think that, and they said it is because I'm emotionally immature. So based on that alone many people have made hurtful, blatant conjectures about me. Jackson had that as I did AND tons of money. Perfect grounds for a lawsuit. I don't believe are men inherently born with original sin though.

I myself do not condone murder (or even capital punishment, which is just murder as a state crime), and I do not soullessly say someone "got what they deserved," when they were murdered. It takes a certain type of person to think like that, and not a very respectable one, at that. But, know this, if you were murdered, I, myself, would not condone your murder, or believe you somehow got what you deserved.

But I am probably far more consistent than the average member of the general population, whereas the opposite can be said of Lennon. My track record in terms of both my personal and professional life is far cleaner than his. The worst you can say about me is I'm honest. Honesty is better than dishonesty. But he was a lot worse than just being dishonest.

Well, frankly, I don't believe you or I are fit to be judges of that - and those who take such a "judgement," into their own hands are very serious criminals of the worst sort themselves - whether they're vigilante, vengeance, or delusional justice types, and it's murder by other private citizens, or it's execution, and murder by the state or government - it's still murder, and such judgements on the lives of others is a soulless and intolerable crimes for which severe (but not capital, in my view) punishment is needed.

Oh, I wouldn't kill anyone myself unless it's purely for self-defense purposes, regardless of how much I think they deserve it. But we have different opinions about justice.

 

[caketastydelish]

CELEBRATING someone's death, no less. The more you say in this thread, the more twisted and warped of a person you reveal yourself to be.

That's flaming, a personal attack. I'm done.

 

[Berzerker]

I was never a big Beatles fan, I actually liked some of their solo/post Beatles music more. Prior to the drug scene and bands like Pink Floyd caught my ear, The Rolling Stones, Beach Boys and Motown were my favs.

 

[thecrazyscot]

I probably have highly decisive opinions about hypocrisy compared to the general population of almost any country. I am an extremely consistent person and hold others to that standard. That said, most are not hypocrites to the same extent Lennon was.

Hypocrisy is certainly something that should be condemned, but everyone is a hypocrite about something, and I don't need to know you personally to know that you are too, even if it's something quite inconsequential.

 

[Zardnaar]

I was never a big Beatles fan, I actually liked some of their solo/post Beatles music more. Prior to the drug scene and bands like Pink Floyd caught my ear, The Rolling Stones, Beach Boys and Motown were my favs.

I love that Paint it Black song for a 60s song. Some of that hippy stuff is also interesting.

 

[amadeus]

Of all the things I’d wake up to today, “did John Lennon deserve getting shot” was not one I had anticipated.

Pretty sure the answer to that’s gonna be a “no.”

 

[Birdjaguar]

And back to the music.

Link to video.

 

[Berzerker]

A story I heard about the Beatles from producer Quincy Jones about Ringo, they were in the studio recording a more difficult drum section and Ringo couldn't do it. He was getting frustrated and Quincy told him to take a break, go home and get some sleep and Quincy had another drummer come in to do the drum work. I'm not sure if and when Ringo was told about the switcheroo. Quincy wasn't too impressed by the Beatles, he didn't think they were all that good.

 

[caketastydelish]

Hypocrisy is certainly something that should be condemned, but everyone is a hypocrite about something, and I don't need to know you personally to know that you are too, even if it's something quite inconsequential.

Maybe, but there's a significant difference between a person who makes a conscious effort on pretty much a 24/7 basis to not be hypocritical, and someone who is almost the opposite of that.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Maybe, but there's a significant difference between a person who makes a conscious effort on pretty much a 24/7 basis to not be hypocritical, and someone who is almost the opposite of that.

Okay, I have to ask this: What do you do about a situation where you enjoy a book or movie and discover that the author or star has some morally or legally questionable things in his/her personal life? Do you reject all the works of that individual, or divorce the creator from the creations?

I can do that to some extent, in that I can enjoy Mel Gibson's movies even though he himself is a horrible person. And as mentioned elsewhere, I haven't burned my Darkover or Avalon books in a bonfire because of what Marion Zimmer Bradley's husband did.

Whatever Lennon did or didn't do in his personal life, I can still enjoy "Imagine." So do many other people, such as the musicians from Ecuador whose music I listen to:

The name of the group is Wuauquikuna; the musicians are Fabian and Luis Salazar.

 

[caketastydelish]

Well, John Lennon the man and John Lennon the musician are different and should be treated differently. I've never said here or anywhere else that I hated all of his music. Imagine in particular is hard for me to appreciate for the reasons I've listed but I enjoy a lot of his other songs. Probably my favorite of his is I am the Walrus.

 

[Patine]

Well, John Lennon the man and John Lennon the musician are different and should be treated differently. I've never said here or anywhere else that I hated all of his music. Imagine in particular is hard for me to appreciate for the reasons I've listed but I enjoy a lot of his other songs. Probably my favorite of his is I am the Walrus.

What you DID say is that he DESERVED to be murdered...