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I'm talking about the actual protein folding. A protein folds very quickly (in microseconds), but it's so complicated that in order to break down the calculations of the folding process, this microsecond timeframe is divided into even smaller timeframes. So, perhaps calculating a possible fold in a given protein that takes place in real time over one nanosecond, a normal computer will need several days to calculate what happens. This is then called a 'work unit' and is awarded a certain number of points depending on the complexity of the calculations.

If I'm wrong I hope Sophie or someone will correct me..
 
proteins dont actually fold and unfold naturally... they just take up a shape according to various pressures as they are constructed,from a chain of amino-acids.

Forwhatever reasons they can fold up in different ways (the pressures have changed) and this causes them to act in a completely different way.
 
:shifty:

:bump:
 
Spammity spam to you too ... I'm currently working on some science spam. EDITING FINISHED!.
Spoiler More science spam :
Apologies if everyone already knows this, I just feel like waffling about it. Also apologies for my ridiculous science-writing style. Instant Notes in Biochemistry (Hames and Hooper, 2000, 1859961428) is a good, cheap intro book for this sort of stuff. If anyone wants to know more, or if I've got something wrong, or whatever, do post here and/or PM me.

The previous posts on Xray crystallography actually aren't the method, afaik, that we're helping - we're doing a whole new ballgame based on (bio)chemistry and computers rather than maths, computers and (bio)chemistry.

If you can get a pure sample of a protein, you find the sequence of amino acids fairly easily - e.g. you can use special enzymes that eat one amino acid at a time from one end; then you can see what comes out in a sequence - so you see that you've got the chain eg Asp-Glu-Met-His-Pro whatever (I just made that up).

Alternatively, if you can identify the gene that codes for that protein, you can clone the gene and decode it to see what AA sequence should be made.
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So, you know a long sequence of amino acids. However, an actual protein is a complex coiled, folded, twisted and even knotted ball made from the AA chain: the folding of a protein determines its structure, and the structure determines its function. In other words, if there's been a mistake and the wrong amino acids went in, it may not work properly; and if something goes wrong during the folding, it may not work properly. Examples are sickle-cell anaemia for the first and prions for the second.

Gah, can't double-spoiler it.
Spoiler genetics info, just in case anyone didn't know :
The genetic code specifies which amino acid to use from a sequence of just four bases (letter equivalents) - using them in triplets allows coding for START, STOP and potentially 62 different amino acids. Just 20 AAs are normally used.
55.gif

The bases are Adenine, Thymine, Cytosine and Guanine; the genetic code of DNA is made of a massive sequence of these. The three-letter abbreviations are the different amino acids.
Amino_acids_2.png
The COO- --CH ---NH3+ bit is in the protein backbone, and the varying sidechains (pictured in red) stick out and determine the folding of the protein.
Spoiler back to the main spam :

Protein folding is driven by the amino acid side-chains. One of the main driving forces in protein folding is how the amino acids react to water. This basically depends on whether they are made solely of C and H, or whether they have O, N or S in as well. CH ones are hydrophobic, oily, and have hysterics if they get wet; polar ones with O/N/S in are quite happy to go for a swim and share electrons with the surrounding water. In the cell or the lab, proteins fold in a watery (aqueous) environment, so all the hydrophobic AAs try to hide in the centre of the protein, away from the scary wet stuff, while all the hydrophilic ones try to get to the outside.

The other (:cringe: at oversimplification, but I don't want to post whole modules here) force in driving protein folding is how the other amino acids in the protein react to each other. This is lots of fun; the -vely charged ones attract the +vely charged ones, and repel the other -ve ones; the big bulky ones can push others out of the way; Cys can form a disulphide bridge (a pair of Cysteines drop their Hs and the Ss bond to each other), etc. Anyway, that drives them into coils, sheets and folds, and those into complexe arrangements which make the overall structure.
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Whoo, back to the examples I mentioned in the paragraph above the Genetics spoiler. Normal haemoglobin (ok, the final molecule is a set of four, ignore that for now) is a chain of hundreds of amino acids; in sickle-cell anaemia, a one-base substitution occurs (one base of the gene is swapped for another): the coding for Glu is changed to Val - and this leaves a hydrophobic patch on the outside of the molecule, which causes trouble. The haemoglobins start sticking together at the hydrophobic patch, making long spikes which draw the red blood cells out long and bent. All of the problems from sickle-cell anaemia result from that one-codon change: one codon changes one amino acid, which changes one protein, which changes one type of cell, which causes trouble.

Prions are an interesting species - misfolded proteins that not only don't work properly, but they go and cause trouble as well. Worse than larger louts! Really evil prions can turn other proteins into prions as well, and thus cause even more trouble. BSE/mad cow disease, scrapie and vCJD are caused by prions. I'm afraid I don't actually know that much about them, but I can find out if anyone wants more.
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Ump. Back to the opening subject - normally protein structures are solved with Xray Crystallography; however, we're doing the number-crunching for something else. What I think (:blush: haven't read their site in detail) F@H is doing, is modelling the interactions between the amino acids in the protein, and between the amino acids and the surrounding environment, to work out how they'll all move and end up. The computer models the size, electronic properties, shape, flexibility, hydrophobicity etc of each thing in in the bit of protein it's modelling, and sees what happens with a particular set. Because these things are so small, things happen pretty darn fast - that's why the site talks about nanoseconds and picoseconds while each WorkUnit takes hours: there's a lot of stuff to keep in mind. HOW they do the folding is important as well as just the end result; if you can model the steps it goes through from start to finish, then you know more about what to do if things go wrong. (See prions waffling.)

However, this method does not take account of anything that happens afterwards - and many proteins have "post-translational modifications": once they've been synthesised, they get extras such as metal ions, sugars, prosthetic groups eg haem, etc. This is quite important; 30-40% of proteins contain one or more metal ions, for example. The difference between what we think bits of the proteins are, and what they actually are, could be tremendous. So, ultimately, we may depend on Xray crystallography or other laboratory-based techniques to study protein accurate structures in detail.
 
Given the identical scores for Goldfish and Elephant teams so far, I think it is fair to say that RAM doesn't have any significant effect on processing work units, all other things being equal.

I can let Elephant and Goldfish PCs keep their names, or add them to Radioactive Monkey, or name them something else, does anyone have a preference?

For that matter, I could probably name each of my ~500MHz boxes after a Civ4 leaderhead. Hmmm... There are roughly 30 of them...
 
It would be funny seeing all these famous leaders vieing for position on the table :)

E&G, perhaps you could play with them, new names, and change something within them.
 
Igloo, better keep your computers under the same name unless you're trying to figure out something particular. Otherwise you're just pushing the rest of us way down the list ;)

Oh, and Sophie, don't edit it in, just start a new post or we probably won't realize you put in new stuff if it's on a former page..
 
I joined up with plans of using my work comp (dual 3.2 Xeon processors and 2 GB RAM) but I can't get through the firewall. I know that there is a proxy address I can use but I have to track it down. I'll set up my home comp tonight.
 
Welcome to the team, Tubby Rower! :) :banana: The more the merrier!


It's nice to see we're still climbing up the rankings .... We're now 1502nd! (I edited the link so that we appear at the top ... at least until the next update; then hunt on page 6)

Team page
 
I got it working and am now running two windows (one for each processor). I'll leave it running tonight to see how far it goes. :)
 
:goodjob: Nice science Spam Soph.. i could follow it :)
 
Nice writeup Sophie :goodjob: especially the info on what causes protein to fold the way they do.. could you expand on the post-translational modifications?
 
ironduck said:
Nice writeup Sophie :goodjob: especially the info on what causes protein to fold the way they do.. could you expand on the post-translational modifications?
Thanks. Erk. I could, but gimme a few days to read up on the lectures I wasn't paying attention in, and/or they told us to go and read up on and I don't remember or whatever.

Meanwhile, some nice linky linkies (from F@H site):

How the points are calculated for WUs
More F@H science
Info on the diseases F@H is studying
Results of F@H!
The scary Allprojects page
 
Working on an Abeta peptide (Alzheimer's).. if you look at the Alzheimer chart here http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-diseases.html it's rising rapidly, beyond population growth and median age it seems. I wonder how that is, but maybe part of the answer lies in the fact that it appears that physical exercise works preventatively?

In a number of retrospective studies, regular physical exercise has appeared to be inversely related to the development of Alzheimer’s. The Alzheimer's risk of those exercising regularly was half that of the least active. This research is consistent with the observation that virtually all measures designed to promote cardiac fitness and reduce stroke risk also seem to reduce Alzheimer's risk. However in one study, dance appeared to be the only exercise effective in reducing risk. One explanation is that dancing requires the use of complex mental skills such as performing correct steps while at the same time keeping track of the music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alzheimer#Epidemiology
 
Is there a way to run the regular client but without having the little icon in the task bar displayed?
 
ironduck said:
Is there a way to run the regular client but without having the little icon in the task bar displayed?

The "console client" is identical to the "application client", except it runs as a service (thus you don't need to log in) and there's no little icon in the task bar.
 
Is there a way to keep the record of the number of WUs I've done on a computer (and current progress on the current WU) if I change to the console version?
 
lost_civantares said:
Is there a way to keep the record of the number of WUs I've done on a computer (and current progress on the current WU) if I change to the console version?

For the first part, I don't know, for the second part, I think if you copy the work folder, queue, and such (essentially everything but the executable), it might work.
 
IglooDude said:
The "console client" is identical to the "application client", except it runs as a service (thus you don't need to log in) and there's no little icon in the task bar.

I never log in to the application client..
 
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