"Jumping to Prince" SG

[JerichoHill]

That is so a Great Person factory. Plus we can whip alot. Gosh, if that wasn't a forest on the right, I would almost move there to settle, because we'd have a luxury resource in our fat cross along with 3 food resources so our capital would be even bigger! later on... but the wood might be valuable to chop.

I don't know. That's the next best alternative to settling in place I feel.

WAIT WAIT WAIT! There's a resouce by the silk, I can tell by the cut of the jungle.

We should totally move the warrior 1 East, to confirm this, If its another resource, we may not want to move our settler because we could keep the silk and this mystery resource for our second city, plus whatever else is out there

 

[pholkhero]

Okay, more intro analysis:
Louis (Creative/Industrious). France. UU: Musketeer.

Creative:+2 culture per city; double production speed of Theater and Coliseum.
Industrious: wonder production increased 50 percent; double production speed of Forge.
Musketeer: Str 9, Mvt 2, Cost 80h; replaces Musketman, avail. @ Gunpowder.

CREATIVE: don't need to bld cultural bldgs to pop borders, could mean no need for Stonehenge at all, then; also, cheap coliseum is good for the +1 happiness, theatre is good on its own for the added +2(?) culture, but also, it ONLY rcvs the (+1) happiness bonus for every 10% culture, as the Colisuem only rcvs it @ 20% culture rate. To me, this means it would be good for us to try and get a high enough tech rate in order to afford 10, and preferably 20% culture. This really seems to be a Late-game effect, though, as then might be the only time we can really afford the high culture rate. But, the theatre's relative cheapness and its above avg culture boost may suggest an aim for a cultural victory (which I need the MOST practice on, and is completely fine w/me).

INDUSTRIOUS: increased wonder production is, of course, good to have, but we must be sure not to become wonder addicts, and play smartly. (The exception to this, to me, is trying for a Cultural Victory.) However, the added benefit of half-priced forges can NOT be overlooked. I've seen this strategy pulled off before, and in a Prince game to boot: use the Ind. trait to gun for the Oracle and use the free tech for Metal Casting. (I have Sulla to thank for that strategy.) This would give us very early forges that we could leverage into a strong mid-game, right around the time of Gunpowder and Military Tradition . . .

MUSKETEER: at first i considered it a very weak UU. HOwever, one this board I read of a really terrific use of the 'Teers (TM). Combine their 2 mvmt pts with either Knights or (even better) Cavalry and they become a very potent, highly mobile group of units. Here, numbers is the key since you can not have cannons (b/c you will discover grenadiers on the way) and cats are simply IMO too weak to warrant bringing them along, except perhaps in very small numbers for stubborn defenses.

So, perhaps a force of Knights/Cavalry and our Musketeer will serve to expand our empire and secure our borders as the core of our cities quietly pursue an era of enlightenment, culture, and decadence and build an above avg amnt of wonders in two key cities and the capital, along with some GAs and additional cultural help from some (more than 3 religions and at least 9 cities ~ have I found a use for our mobile army, securing the right amount of cities?)

kids crying must go

 

[MasterShake]

never seen lous in action before
should be interesting
i'll lurk here

 

[JerichoHill]

Y'all gonna wanna do the Civil Service or CoL slingshot right?

 

[pholkhero]

Kids sleeping....

Starting Techs: The Wheel, Agriculture.

Colosseum: avail@Construction; red. cost 60h; +1 ; +1 per 20% culture rate
Theatre: avail@Drama; red cost 25h; +3(!) culture; +1 per 10% culture rate; +1 from Dye; needed for Globe Theatre
Forges: avail@Metal Casting (MC Slingshot!); red cost 60h; +1 unhealth; +25% prod; can have 1 Engineer; req. for Ironworks, Colossus, Eiffel Tower, Statue of Liberty

The Oracle: cost: 150 (Double Speed w/ Marble); + 8 Culture; GPPs: + 2 GP;
Reqs: Priesthood; 1 free technology

Metal Casting: 450 BEAKERS(!); reqs. Pottery & (Mining &) Bronze Working; leads to Machinery; can bld Forge, Colossus, workers can build workshops

The Parthenon: cost: 400 (Double Speed w/ Marble); +10 Culture; GPPs 2 GA; Reqs: Polytheism; Exps: Chemistry; +50% great people birth rate in all cities

The more I look at this, the more i'm thinking Cultural Victory. Use Paris as a GPF, churning out the Artists. If we did this, we would need to ONLY generate Artists points, so only the Parthenon here. At first, though, im thinking use it for some whipping, some chopping and some cottages before a change-over to all farms.

Also, we would need a good production city to build the Oracle as our second city so as not to dilute our GA pool in Paris. Also, one near Marble would be ideal, for both Oracle and Parthenon (but with Industrious, i would think it may not matter as much ~ do ya'll agree??).

AND, i'd like to get to Animal Husbandry and Iron Working reasonably soon, so as to reveal horses and iron respectively so we can build Knights w/o too much hassle later on down the line.

With all tihs in mind (most importantly, the aim for a Cultural win), I'm thinking settle in place, maximize commerce, research set to Pottery, build a worker. Build cottage with worker, beeline to BWorking. Chop another worker, build a warrior and chop a settler. Settle him near to a resource of good strategic value, i.e., marble, copper, horses if we can see them.

Of course, if you don't want a culture win, then . . . this is all rubbish

 

[pholkhero]

That is so a Great Person factory. Plus we can whip alot. Gosh, if that wasn't a forest on the right, I would almost move there to settle, because we'd have a luxury resource in our fat cross along with 3 food resources so our capital would be even bigger! later on... but the wood might be valuable to chop.

I don't know. That's the next best alternative to settling in place I feel.

WAIT WAIT WAIT! There's a resouce by the silk, I can tell by the cut of the jungle.

We should totally move the warrior 1 East, to confirm this, If its another resource, we may not want to move our settler because we could keep the silk and this mystery resource for our second city, plus whatever else is out there

Agreed (see above). I also wished the forest wasn't there, but hopefully they'll be some more hills north of us so as to have a good production city. Also, perhaps there may be more hills to the west beyond the grassland hill that is on the coast. All in all, I think settling in place is prob. the best idea.

never seen lous in action before
should be interesting
i'll lurk here

welcome!

Y'all gonna wanna do the Civil Service or CoL slingshot right?

maybe do the Metal Casting sling? what do you think of my above thoughts on that??

 

[JerichoHill]

Why do we need metal casting when you want to pursue a cultural victory? That's more of a military slingshot.

Getting Confused with the Oracle would sure, produce Great PROFITS, but would help support an empire of 9 cities (what you need for a cultural win), allow us to build monastaries, cathedrals, and temples, not to mention the Shrine of the religion for gold! Plus a greater likelihood that we would have trade bait.

No point going for a CS slingshot if youre interested in a cultural win...because thats a military / expansion kind of slingshot. I feel the same way about metal casting.

EDIT:

In no way am I saying don't do it...because the point I think was to make a jump to Prince. If you think you and your new prince cohorts would be better served in your learning by slinging to Metal Casting, do it. I'll try to help, but I will do my best not to try to prevent every mistake.

Because mistakes is how one learns...

 

[SkunkDoctor]

haha louis is so perfect, he was actually who I'd have suggested as least favored leader.
Thoughts: I am assuming, guys, that we cannot hit both the pyramids and oracle. Wit no stone or marble in sight, do we need to make that decision right now? The problem with beelining to the oracle is that it is, without myst., fairly deep into the religion, xpensive tree. Plus we then have to beeline to CoL, or at least philo, forsaking many early improvement techs. Combine that with having to sideline to BW, it may be easier to just go for pyramids and oracle if we then feel like there is a chance (discovery of marble or stone could sway the decision either way).
One good thing about cultural is that we need no stonehenge or obelisks to pop borders, therefore it may be a good idea to focus on a few settlers fairly early. We don't need to consider fat cross vs. lil square.
A big problem with a cultural victiry, though, is that there is no room for adaptation in the game conditions, and your best cities will always be going for culture. That makes it hard to adapt cities to the current situation, and may stunt our learning curve for micro/specialist management. All we would ever run is artists, and we would by nature have to go wonder happy. This is a HUGE problem when you find yourself behind in techs, and going from a cultural win from the get go provides little options when that happens, as your best cities are stuck in artist mode, producing and losing wonder after wonder.

 

[pholkhero]

Hmmm...all good points and well taken. I agree, now that you've presented your logic behind your assertion that MC and CS are more mil/exp slingshots, and not suited for a cul. vic.

~ (edit: though the point of metal casting would be to get some forgers going early on in our cities; the earlier we get them, the better the relative bonus, which would be helpful i think. However, i still think let's play the waiting game on the whole thing and see what turns up) ~

Also, skunk, good points as well. Let's hold off then on this discussion for a bit, then. Let's see what the nearby lands entail and who's lurking nearby and then we can return to this discussion.

In the here and now, Paris needs founding. Settle in place, then, yes? Or shall i load up the save quickly and move that warrior NE onto the dye (which we'll get the extra happy bonus with our theatres)?

And also, first builds and techs ideas??

 

[JerichoHill]

Just a few recs.

1) We shouldn't pick a victory type, that's a good point. Let's see which victory type naturally comes about.

2) I would settle in place. I see no reason not to, and to not settle in place seems more of a gamble. Besides, that might just be a hut next to the silk...I think it is.

3) We could work the pigs and go straight for a worker to then pasture the pigs.

4) The next tech to research would seem to be fishing, since we have two fishing resources.

 

[pholkhero]

Build: Worker, Warrior, Workboat, Workboat - chop a worker and one of the workboats when possible, what do you think?

Research: Husbandry, Fishing, Mining, BWorking.

On first move, I'm going to have him go NE unless someone objects, adn then have him explore probably counterclockwise around us at first.

However, i'm going to wait until at least tomorrow morning to play, probably until 6:00 pm GMT-5 ~ it's 11 pm now ~ so as to give everyone a chance to respond.

 

[SkunkDoctor]

I'm thinking either AH or fishing, then mining -> BW. We should be fine for a while with either resource, and chopping out a worker->settler->Pyramids set should be done ASAP (? I think). Or do you guys want to try an oracle slingshot? The only problem I see with that is that we will have to go mysticism to priesthood fairly early, forsaking early worker techs. Also, I doubt we can found Buddha or Hindu, so those techs are relatively useless for their cost at this point. We should seriously consider whether the Oracle is worth it, as we could hit alphabet after some worker techs/pyramids and just trade with our monopoly.

 

[SpriteSODA]

i think this city position is great because we have fresh water, sea and some usefull resorces. MC is an expensive tech, and we might be able to get it if we build the Oracle and get it free. it will give us a huge tech leading, and we will be able to sell it to the AI for alot of things.
in the production, first create a warior and then a worker because we dont want to be stuck at size 1.

 

[pholkhero]

in the production, first create a warior and then a worker because we dont want to be stuck at size 1.

that may be a better choice since we won't have much for the worker to do after the pasture, do we need one before BW? In that case, then, do we even need to go to husbandry, if we go warrior first, and go straight mining>BW, and then husbandry, fishing? it's 1:30, i'm going to bed for the night. See you all in the morning.

 

[JerichoHill]

If we're going to create a unit besides a worker, build a scout. They're faster than a warrior, and will help pop more goody huts.

However, our worker does have stuff to do.

HE CAN BUILD ROADS!

If we build a road out to our second city site, that means our settler, worker, and military guard gets there that much faster! Saves turns, which is HYUGE!

So while we may not have much, building roads to future expansion sites will allow us to expand into the AI...which again is why we need that worker first.

 

[SpriteSODA]

ANYWAY, its not that crushial. just do what you think is good.

 

[pholkhero]

I'll play tonight when I get in tonight; i'm getting antsy ~ that'll be about 8 hours from now. so we have this time to hash out the strategy. i'd like to see LobsterBoy's thoughts, too.

Also, anybody have an approximate count for discovery times for the techs we're thinking of? I'm thinking it's something like: husbandry ~ 12-15 turns, fishing ~6-8 turns, mining ~8-10 turns, and bwing ~ 20 turns; warrior/scout: 9 or 18 turns; worker ~ `18 turns. What's the output for pastured pigs? 3f3h1c?? Is that right??

Perhaps husbandry first, to hook up the pigs, then on to fishing to be able to work the sea squares; hopefully timed to jump to 2 pop; (after: beeline bworking)
Paris builds a worker, hopefully will finish around husbandry; start on scout;
obviously, the warrior will try to survive and explore for us.

i think being able to hook up the pigs relatively quickly for Paris will end up helping us more in the long-run than letting us grow to Pop2 before building the worker

 

[pholkhero]

If you are willing to not only accept a SG noob but explain how to upload saves, load downloaded saves, etc. I'm in.

Skunk ~ it's super-easy, as i've found.

To download the save: you can dl it to the Desktop and merely click on the save icon there to load the game

To upload your save, and any pictures: games are in your Firaxis/Civ4/Civ4Saves/SinglePlayer folder and screenshots are kept in the Firaxis/Civ4/Civ4ScreenShots. For ease, I create a folder right on the desktop and move the saves and any screenshots i want into it. Then, come onto the forum, and you can upload images from the "Post Reply" screen. They'll come up thumbnailed, like my pics did.

 

[JerichoHill]

Yeah, doing the downloading and such, and screenshots, are very easy. We'll help you out.

Do we need to beeline to bronze-working? Barbarians may not be an issue. If we have a close neighbor, I'd say beelining is a must, cause we could wipe them out. (I am not a very kind player). Just something to keep in mind.

I agree about the initial tech path. In the meantime, our warrior and scout will find us a second city, we'll get a road out there, and save time building that second, and then hopefully third city.

When possible
1) Expand toward the AI.
2) Cultural Blockade. If there's a chance we can block off the AI from getting into a chunk of land, whhoooohooooO!!!!

 

[pholkhero]

.... cause we could wipe them out. (I am not a very kind player).

Oh, good, i was hoping for some lessons in early game warfare; my weakest area overall is warfare; i think i'm too cautious...here's hoping for close neighbors, monty, alex and toku