[GS] June 2019 Patch Details

[leandrombraz]

Interesting post from Anton Strenger showing the difference between production cost pre and pos patch:
https://twitter.com/antonstrenger/status/1136380903113023493?s=20

 

[SammyKhalifa]

He typically goes only by "Tronster".

That must make for some embarrassing and awkward moments around the office when you confuse which Tronster is being referred to

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Interesting post from Anton Strenger showing the difference between production cost pre and pos patch:
https://twitter.com/antonstrenger/status/1136380903113023493?s=20

Pic for those too lazy to go on twitter. Blue line is pre-update, red line is post-update.

 

[UWHabs]

Interesting post from Anton Strenger showing the difference between production cost pre and pos patch:
https://twitter.com/antonstrenger/status/1136380903113023493?s=20

Cool. Yeah, you can see before that the costs really jumped up, from a big group at buildings at the 290 mark all the way up to 390, now they grow more slowly. The group that goes from 590 down to 440 (?) is going to actually make me think about building those buildings, or at least will be nice to have the cost to buy them drop from 2360 down to 1760.

 

[Jkchart]

I just want to make sure this very important question gets answered. Tronster is his legal first name. He typically goes only by "Tronster". Check the credits. Also, he's one of my favorite people at the company.

Glad Kevin is letting us know he watches us closer than we think

 

[Ivan Hunger]

Interesting post from Anton Strenger showing the difference between production cost pre and pos patch:
https://twitter.com/antonstrenger/status/1136380903113023493?s=20

Going by that chart, the cost reductions begin in the industrial era. Which makes sense, because that's also when the first tier 3 buildings start to unlock (with the exception of worship buildings).

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I don't know, I'm sure some numbers people will show me how I'm wrong; but if those are the changes, I still don't see how those specialists (and therefore Tier 3 bldgs) are really worth shooting for.

Like much of the upcoming patch changes that have been announced so far, it's directionally positive and therefore an improvement over the current situation, but ultimately just a tinkering. Your key yields still come from a couple of important districts and a few Tier 1 and Tier 2 buildings. From a productivity perspective, people aren't worth the investment required to feed and entertain them, not once a city hits pop 10, sometimes not even after the city hits pop 4. As long as the yield from a district, building, and trade route are the same for Pop 1 city as they are for a Pop 40 city, it's doubtful that any tweaking of specialist yields would make a difference, short of (a) dropping the need to keep your people happy, such that the amenity cost of growing new people is eliminated, or (b) shifting Great People Points such that they arise from specialists rather than from buildings.

That said, I am pleased to see that the dev team is looking at problem areas, and I'm looking forward to seeing what else may have changed when the patch notes come out.

 

[Chocolate Pi]

Agreed. I prefer to refrain from commenting when all we have is theory and incomplete sets of numbers, but that's my speculation as well: changes in the right direction but too small to move many needles.

• T3 buildings and Food Markets are less terrible, but still inferior to pretty much any alternative. They aren't sexy capstones at all.
• Specialists are only improved in the endgame, and only marginally. Their yields would still be considered relatively poor on a tile, especially Stock Exchange.
• Workshop and Bank are still very lackluster buildings.
• Canada is probably not in a garbage tier of their own anymore, yet is probably in the running for worst civ. The diplomacy changes probably hurt as much as help their ultra-late-game diplo advantage.
• The England changes seem to be doubling down on the existing anti-synergistic mechanics--weird late-game advantages on a colonial civ?

But we're looking at a sizeable number of changes that are all in the right direction in the right places, and there are lots of dynamics that could change with these radical production and research cost tweeks. I suggest we play it before speculating too much.

Edit:
From Anton's graph we can see that Airport (600p) and Stadium/AquaCenter (660p) have been reduced to ~575p, and that the Hydroelectric Dam (580p) got reduced alongside the other T3 buildings. That's quite nice.

Edit 2:
It's worth pointing out that the cost reduction of T3 buildings is slightly compounded, because the cost of power buildings are cheaper as well.

 

[Ziad]

• The England changes seem to be doubling down on the existing anti-synergistic mechanics--weird late-game advantages on a colonial civ?.

The British Empire was its zenith in the 1920s. I think it fits.

 

[Chocolate Pi]

The British Empire was its zenith in the 1920s. I think it fits.

Agreed, but the key is that colonization works a bit different in Civ. (It's a mechanical weirdness, not a historical one.) England is put in the awkward spot of being incentivized to establish colonies, but with no real tools to do it and against rivals with early-game bonuses.

 

[Disgustipated]

Just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in.

This will give me something to play until WOW Classic. Yes, god help me, I do plan on playing that. I never even bought BFA, the modern game is too bloated for me, and I'm too far behind the curve. Classic on the other hand...

 

[acluewithout]

Agreed, but the key is that colonization works a bit different in Civ. (It's a mechanical weirdness, not a historical one.) England is put in the awkward spot of being incentivized to establish colonies, but with no real tools to do it and against rivals with early-game bonuses.

England has plenty of tools to colonise other continents and the game provides additional tools too.

The problem is that it's just not worth the effort. You're better just putting those resources into your existing Cities.

We just need two things IMO. Continent and fractal maps that create more island chains in addition to big land blobs, so you have room to create colonies (Terra map would be good too). And a better incentive to have colonies - not just more hammers and gold, but something more unique. eg additional Diplo favour, more era score, envoys. Dunno. Just a good reason to leave home.

Like much of the upcoming patch changes that have been announced so far, it's directionally positive and therefore an improvement over the current situation, but ultimately just a tinkering. Your key yields still come from a couple of important districts and a few Tier 1 and Tier 2 buildings. From a productivity perspective, people aren't worth the investment required to feed and entertain them, not once a city hits pop 10, sometimes not even after the city hits pop 4. As long as the yield from a district, building, and trade route are the same for Pop 1 city as they are for a Pop 40 city, it's doubtful that any tweaking of specialist yields would make a difference, short of (a) dropping the need to keep your people happy, such that the amenity cost of growing new people is eliminated, or (b) shifting Great People Points such that they arise from specialists rather than from buildings.

That said, I am pleased to see that the dev team is looking at problem areas, and I'm looking forward to seeing what else may have changed when the patch notes come out.

Agreed. I prefer to refrain from commenting when all we have is theory and incomplete sets of numbers, but that's my speculation as well: changes in the right direction but too small to move many needles.

• T3 buildings and Food Markets are less terrible, but still inferior to pretty much any alternative. They aren't sexy capstones at all.
• Specialists are only improved in the endgame, and only marginally. Their yields would still be considered relatively poor on a tile, especially Stock Exchange.
• Workshop and Bank are still very lackluster buildings.
• Canada is probably not in a garbage tier of their own anymore, yet is probably in the running for worst civ. The diplomacy changes probably hurt as much as help their ultra-late-game diplo advantage.
• The England changes seem to be doubling down on the existing anti-synergistic mechanics--weird late-game advantages on a colonial civ?

But we're looking at a sizeable number of changes that are all in the right direction in the right places, and there are lots of dynamics that could change with these radical production and research cost tweeks. I suggest we play it before speculating too much.

Edit:
From Anton's graph we can see that Airport (600p) and Stadium/AquaCenter (660p) have been reduced to ~575p, and that the Hydroelectric Dam (580p) got reduced alongside the other T3 buildings. That's quite nice.

Edit 2:
It's worth pointing out that the cost reduction of T3 buildings is slightly compounded, because the cost of power buildings are cheaper as well.

Obvious to say, I know, but let's see what happens after the patch comes out. I'm hopeful the building changes - and hopefully a few tweaks here and there that might not have been mentioned - might be good enough. Personally, I don't need Tier 3 buildings to be optimal, just good enough that they're not a terrible investment.

However, I suspect the bigger problem will be that the IZ, Workshop, Factory and Bank haven't been tweaked. These buildings are also very weak, and need some love. Otherwise, it's really hard to get to Tier 3 buildings because you can't justify building the pre-requisites.

The game does feel like it's really getting there this year. GS was a great expansion, and the patches have been tackling big game issues. There's also more mods that really improve the overall experience. Slowly slowly.

 

[SnowKomodo]

When is the patch coming out?

 

[Stilgar08]

Don't forget the synergy that might emerge through those production boosts and the lower prod.cost AND the raised cost for civics and techs in the later eras. That means you'll have more production at hand for "less" stuff to build making less effective buildings more worthwhile, too. Boosting these lesser efficient buildings is just the icing on the cake IMO. And doing so by specialist helps both with taller strategies and a higher specialisation of cities...
On Twitter Anton additionally mentioned new culture balancing that went into the patch. Let's see how the cake tastes when all ingredients are mixed together.

(and hope nobody mixed up salt and sugar again this time in the process {trade bug})

 

[acluewithout]

Don't forget the synergy that might emerge through those production boosts and the lower prod.cost AND the raised cost for civics and techs in the later eras. That means you'll have more production at hand for "less" stuff to build making less effective buildings more worthwhile, too. Boosting these lesser efficient buildings is just the icing on the cake IMO. And doing so by specialist helps both with taller strategies and a higher specialisation of cities...
On Twitter Anton additionally mentioned new culture balancing that went into the patch. Let's see how the cake tastes when all ingredients are mixed together.

(and hope nobody mixed up salt and sugar again this time in the process {trade bug})

Yup. Agreed. Frankly, I don't need these changes to be perfect. Just in the ballpark.

It also looks like there are other balance changes in the next patch - some tweaking around culture per above, and we know some unit rebalancing given P&S has been tweaked at least, and some UI and reports stuff. Very exciting.

Can't wait for the patch notes and, you know, the patch.

 

[acluewithout]

I’m watching TheGameMechanics patch stream. Carl is in chat.

Few things to note:

- Production bonus to Quarries, LumberMills and Pastures are to base improvements, so Quarry on hill gets more production for being a quarry, in addition to hammers from the resource and the hill.

- Patch describes as “very ambitious”, and Anton’s video really was “only a taste”. Hype Coastal Cities and Unit rebalance?

- Carl said there’s other stuff that will “blow your mind” that was “hard to keep quiet about particularly after [TGM’s] Diplo Victory Game”.

- People asked if GS is coming to Switch and whether IZ has also been buffed, but Carl didn’t comment.

 

[jozef57]

i think it sounds realy good, hope it comes soon, it will enhance my dailt civ 6 time lol and extra cis alwasy welcome, and i really really love the new map. but i as alwasy still hope for even bigger maps than huge and say cruise ships

 

[WillowBrook]

When is the patch coming out?

We don't know. Could be as early as eight hours from now after the livestream or as late as sometime next week. The official word is "soon".

There have been no updates to the PC test branches since last week; the PC patch is almost certainly ready. But the was a Linux update yesterday, suggesting that something there didn't make it through final sign-off. But no Mac update at the same time. I'm interpreting it to mean that the Mac patch is probably good to go. So release time for PC may depend on whether they're willing to wait for Linux to be ready, too.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Hopefully some time before Origins (game fair) next week, not counting on it though.

 

[ghost88]

Just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in.

This will give me something to play until WOW Classic. Yes, god help me, I do plan on playing that. I never even bought BFA, the modern game is too bloated for me, and I'm too far behind the curve. Classic on the other hand...

World of Wonder or World of Warcraft?