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[GS] June 2019 Patch Details

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Jun 3, 2019.

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  1. Stilgar08

    Stilgar08 Chieftain

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    So why not build cav (paper) then and kill those muskets? No horses? Bad luck you might want to consider trading for them. No friends to trade with? Well think about why...
    Or just use sheer numbers. It would be a joke if pike and shot could beat muskets one against one IMO. 3vs1 might work though...
    PS: ranged is not too shabby either...

    I'm not sure if that's actually a bad thing... Natural wonders being worked might be competitive in the early game when there's not many improved tiles but when it comes to productivity and efficiency they suck in RL too. Their value most of the time doesn't come from what they actually produce. It's more their adjacency bonuses, appeal and the possibility to make them parks...
     
  2. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    Unit balance is a real mess. Just as @Sostratus and @Boris Gudenuf. But it's a bigger problem then just AC are a bit weak against Cav.

    I think the whole Rock Scissors Paper thing in Civ is a bit misunderstood.

    Paraphrasing something I said in a different thread, in principle, I think the key RSP dynamic is Melee, Anti-Cav, Lighr Cav. Range and Seige are sort of "support" for Melee and AC, providing additional damage output (Ranged a good v Units and on Defence; Seige are good v Cities and Naval). Heavy Cav are Melee+Light Cav, but cost more investment.

    But the twist on the rock-scissor-paper mechanics is that, in addition to "rock" beats "scissors" etc, rock, scissors, paper also each have a different "job" rather than just different "abilities".

    What I mean is this. Currently, in principle, Melee are good a taking cities and are weak v LC and need resources. LC are good at pillaging and exploring but weak v AC and need resources (but easier to get resources than Melee). And AC are good a defence and don't need resources but weak v Melee.

    Let's say my strategy is to capture cities (Dom). My opponent is going for a Diplomatic Victory (so, militarily, wants to be peaceful and defend).

    I want to capture one of his cities. In principle I don't really just choose between Melee (and HC), LC or AC. I choose Melee because they're better at what I want to do. If I'm more about Pillaging, then I could chose LC. But I choose Melee because I want to be aggressive and capture cities.

    But each unit having a unique job makes decisions more interesting. Now when I build Melee, I'm not just having a preference on what unit I want. I'm having to commit to a strategy.

    My opponent also now has a interesting strategic choice.

    He could build LC. That's the obvious counter (strong v Melee). But at the end of the day, that gives him a whole lot Pillaging units. And that might not fit with his overall strategy - so he either changes strategy to make use of the LC units, or builds a long term sub-optimal unit to solve a short term problem.

    He could build Melee. Not the optimal counter, but if his long term strategy is to capture cities himself then this is a long term better use of resources. But that's not his strategy.

    He could (and does) build AC. They're weak against Melee ... but good on Defence. Indeed, their weakness v Melee (in principle) should be offset by their strength on defence. And of course those units are more consistent with his overall strategy - defence - but he equally can't now pivot to being the agressor. And it's a dangerous move - AC don't get a -10 v Melee when Fortified in a city or Encampment, but move into the open an they're toast v Melee.

    Anyway. It doesn't quite work like that in practicd, because of balance issues. AC actually end up bad at even their core role of defence, Melee are good attack and denfece and Horses etc are good at everything. But the above seems to be the overall design intention.

    So. I can't say I'm all that excited about AC getting a bigger bonus v Cav. That alone is not going to fix all the unit balance issues. But my hope is that if they've tweaked P&S or AC that may mean there has been a more general re-balancing and tweaking.
     
    steemroller and Stilgar08 like this.
  3. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Warlord

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    Man this puts me into such a bind-try to complete my current game as Arabia......or wait for the patch & start a new game entirely!!!! Oh, & seemingly the same week that the new Battle-Tech DLC comes out. Oh well, who needs sleep, eh?
     
  4. DWilson

    DWilson Where am I? What turn is it?

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    I think that for Colonial Cities you should have two options when settling off continent- a normal settlement, like your other normal cities for expansion, or a colonial settlement which behaves essentially as a vassal and you reap yields from it's progress. There should be something akin to a toggle to turn those yields higher, with a corresponding rise in antipathy (leading to rebellion).

    (The colonial settlements would thus behave more like colonies, but you normal expansion wouldn't. Would probably want colonies to unlock magnifiers as the game goes on to make them shift in desirability at different points).
     
    Julia97 likes this.
  5. Stilgar08

    Stilgar08 Chieftain

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    I see where you are coming from but I don't understand the fuzz. Pike and shot is +14 vs. Cav now. That makes them finally able to do their job ; being AntiCav. Before they were not there. I agree that there are balance issues all over the place but its all heading into the right direction and since it is not just rock paper scissors (major simplification here) it is ok that different jobs and units overlap.
    One problem occurs when a unit type is superior almost always and the strongest units currently are Cav and ranged. It's good to buff the counters then...
    Balance always is quite difficult to achieve and I'm sure the tweaking and nerfing will go on...
     
  6. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    Yup. Agree with all that.

    To be clear, I'm happy with any Buffs to AC. I don't know how many times I've built AC saying "this time will be different". And then they all die. Sad.
     
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  7. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Chieftain

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    What is the use of indicating Future Era in "+10 Combat Strength against units from the Information and Future Eras" in the New Dark Age Policy "Cyber Warfare"? There are no units in that era currently.
     
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  8. pkaem

    pkaem Chieftain

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    Very much indeed. It would open slightly in the direction of a tall play.
     
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  9. Zenphys

    Zenphys Chieftain

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    Colonial cities and play works with Terra map scripts. Where all the players start on a single large continent covering 2/3 of the map and there is another continent with 1/3 of the map with no civs.

    This seems like the most balanced map script but at the moment you need to use mods to get it. I'm surprised Firaxis hasnt made an official version yet.

    While Moari and Norway can get a headstart. With raging barbarians its still difficult to do
     
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  10. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Warlord

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    I wouldn't expect any expansion to come at all. The game is close to the end of its lifecycle - Civ 4 and 5 games got their last patches at spring 2.5 years after release. We're already later than this schedule. Developing a full-scale expansion will just not pay off for such quite old game.

    Post-expansion DLC could be interesting, though. Not sure if Firaxis would try.
     
  11. Zenphys

    Zenphys Chieftain

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    I have a feeling they are putting more effort into civ vi support than previous civs. Personally i am putting faith into another civ vi expansion
     
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  12. bitula

    bitula Chieftain

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    I'm surprised camps (in general) are not buffed. Weakest improvement in the game. Just plus one gold...
     
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  13. Kwami

    Kwami Warlord

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    I'm not sure that previous games imply much of anything for this game. The culture of DLC is much different now than it was then. Also, we don't have access to Firaxis's numbers for sales, profits, etc., so we don't know if there's still reason to keep investing in this game.

    What we do know is that Civ VI will clearly be supported for more than 2.5 years since we've already hit that mark and yesterday's announcement video hinted at much more to come.
     
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  14. darkace77450

    darkace77450 Chieftain

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    I'm okay with sacrificing a wildcard slot for a dark age policy card (though I do like your idea); my problem is it's exceedingly difficult to hit a dark age in the first place.

    I hope you're right, as there's plenty they can still add. And it would be nice to have a "definitive" version of the game. I don't know if the momentum generated by GS is enough to carry more casual players' interest to a third expansion, but here's hoping.
     
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  15. kb27787

    kb27787 Chieftain

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    Only thing that could've made me happier was + housing to coastal cities... (and nerf chopping).
    Canada looks better and better now, but I wish the +1 food was also granted to farms and plantations, or at least on improvements on resources...

    Lumber mills on rainforest? Chichen Itza is looking better and better (can you imagine an extra +4 production on a rainforest hill? Making 2f 6p 2c tiles at guilds? Buffable even further with +1 science from zoos... I am imagining some really insane screenshots. As a Kongo player I wholeheartedly approve!)
     
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  16. V. Soma

    V. Soma long time civ fan

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    I am waiting for the patch notes - I am sure they already have it ready to share...
     
  17. RohirrimElf

    RohirrimElf Chieftain

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    My guess is a surprise tomorrow, followed by patch notes and patch on thursday.
     
  18. Smity2k1

    Smity2k1 Chieftain

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    I've been wishing for a production/science/culture balance pass for quite some time now. Glad we are finally getting one!
     
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  19. criZp

    criZp Warlord

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    cavalry doesn't beat melee. crossbows doesn't beat muskets, cities can't stop massive pillaging, and then you're only left with muh allies, another uncertain source of defense.
     
  20. Pietato

    Pietato Warlord

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    Lol...
     
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