"Jungle" versus "Rainforest"

[Zaarin]

A couple articles mentioned research bonuses "near jungle and rainforest." Do you think these are synonymous or will we see a new rainforest terrain? I'd personally love to see that, since not all rainforest is tropical.

 

[Krajzen]

I am pretty convinced rainforest = jungle in civ6 because it is not the series of games that'd put such nitpicky attention to the detail.

In civ series there were always deserts, forests, plains, jungles, snow and similar 'general biomes', not nitpicky divisions on savannahs, temperate/tropical climate, rock deserts, temperate rainforests, arid lands etc.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

Might be the same but different word and image depending on where it is, like civ 5's continents.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[Zaarin]

Also in Civ5, forest was a different color based on what base terrain it was on; perhaps jungle could work the same.

 

[Hans Lemurson]

I never really understood why Jungle was not a kind of Forest, and why you couldn't get much production out of it.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

In real life Im pretty sure jungle is pretty useless for production and it is not good for much else either.

 

[Cyon]

There is some pretty nice wood, like Ebony Wood and Teak in the rainforest which are worth a lot.

 

[Amrunril]

A couple articles mentioned research bonuses "near jungle and rainforest." Do you think these are synonymous or will we see a new rainforest terrain? I'd personally love to see that, since not all rainforest is tropical.

Was the reference a direct quote from the developers? If not it's probably just the reviewers being loose with their language. If there is actually a distinction though, I'm curious as to what the difference could be. I suppose rainforest could refer to temperate rainforest and jungle to tropical, but I doubt they'd use that language, as people usually assume tropical when they hear rainforest, and I suspect many aren't even aware of what a temperate rainforest is. Alternatively, I suppose jungle could refer to tropical dry forest, but that seems unlikely for the same reasons of familiarity.

I am pretty convinced rainforest = jungle in civ6 because it is not the series of games that'd put such nitpicky attention to the detail.

In civ series there were always deserts, forests, plains, jungles, snow and similar 'general biomes', not nitpicky divisions on savannahs, temperate/tropical climate, rock deserts, temperate rainforests, arid lands etc.

In general this is true, especially when you consider how much variation forest terrain covers. On the other hand, the game does distinguish between grassland and plains, even though these are generally thought of as variations on the same biome. In fact, it isn't even entirely clear what the distinction is supposed to represent- if I were going to divide grasslands into two types, it would be wetter tallgrass areas and dryer shortgrass ones, but the in game distinction seems to depend at least as much on latitude. Perhaps it's meant to represent not the natural grasslands themselves but their potential productivity as cropland? I think the best answer is that the distinction is there not because the developers looked at the world's actual grasslands and thought they should be divided into two types, but because the developers thought that having two different types of open land with two different base yields would make for better gameplay. If there are indeed distinct jungles and rainforests, I think it's most likely for the same reason: that the developers though having two different kinds of rainforest tile would improve gameplay. The actual ecological distinction, if there is any, would be at best an after the fact justification.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

I just assume grassland has more rainfall than plains. Although it seems odd that cutting down a jungle turns it into plains, the dryer territory. It's gameplay reasons I guess.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[Zaarin]

I just assume grassland has more rainfall than plains. Although it seems odd that cutting down a jungle turns it into plains, the dryer territory. It's gameplay reasons I guess.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Never noticed that. If that carries over, perhaps jungle placed on grassland will appear to be the temperate variety. On the other hand, my favorite place in the world is the Pacific Northwest, so I'm probably more familiar with temperate rainforest than your average consumer.

 

[brianshapiro]

I think it would be cool to see more differentiation of similar biomes, like marsh vs. bog vs. swamp , shrubland vs. woodland vs forest, etc. Though I doubt those are the plans.

 

[Teproc]

Jungle is the informal term for rainforest, is it not ? I don't think there'll be any different between the two, it's possible the terminology will go from one to the other but that's about it.

 

[wilbeard]

On a slightly unrelated note, it's always bothered me in V that you get a science bonus for jungle tiles. I can't think of any real world examples where this is the case. All top universities producing the highest research output (think Oxbridge, Ivy League, etc) would be built on the equivalent of grassland tiles in Civworld. Just a little immersion breaking thing that appears to be making a reappearance in VI.

 

[LDiCesare]

In real life Im pretty sure jungle is pretty useless for production and it is not good for much else either.

Actually, forest in temperate climes can be useless too. There are "green deserts" in France where forests were grown for christmas trees, then not managed for years, and the result is the trees are too many, too close to each other, too big, and the whole areas are totally unexploitable. You may still burn the trees for fire, but being pine trees, that is not a very good idea if you can do otherwise. They are not even particularly good for construction.
Also, forests where there has been a lot of modern fights (Ardennes) are hard to exploit because all the small shrapnel parts lodged in the trees make the wood dangerous to cut and soemtimes unusable as well, except for heating.

The difference between jungles and forests is jungles tend to have more vegetation under the trees, be denser, but that's not much of a difference. They are cut and exploited as easily as other forests.

 

[shaglio]

On a slightly unrelated note, it's always bothered me in V that you get a science bonus for jungle tiles. I can't think of any real world examples where this is the case. All top universities producing the highest research output (think Oxbridge, Ivy League, etc) would be built on the equivalent of grassland tiles in Civworld. Just a little immersion breaking thing that appears to be making a reappearance in VI.

Off the top of my head, Jane Goodall living with gorillas is just one example of science being generated from a jungle tile.

 

[unpossible251]

In real life Im pretty sure jungle is pretty useless for production and it is not good for much else either.

Mmmmm kinda sorta not really...
Jungle communities make great ropes, rope bridges, canoes, barges... In pre industrial ages
Certain fabrics, as well as rubber in post industrial societies...
And a massive massive pharmacological resource. I dont know why "universities" unlock it, i think research labs...oh well. Not my game

 

[Trappisto]

I just assume grassland has more rainfall than plains. Although it seems odd that cutting down a jungle turns it into plains, the dryer territory. It's gameplay reasons I guess.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

I think that a lot of the humidity and rainfall associated to rainforest is generated and sustained by the forests themselves and if the big trees are removed the climate actually becomes rather arid.

 

[brianshapiro]

Jungle is the informal term for rainforest, is it not ? I don't think there'll be any different between the two, it's possible the terminology will go from one to the other but that's about it.

Its sometimes used as a synonym for any tropical forests, although there are more types of tropical forest than a rainforest, and there are also temperate rainforests to which the term wouldn't apply.

A more specific is to refer to forest areas in which there's thick undergrowth, where the vegetation is thick and impenetrable. Hence all the tropes about cutting down jungle vines with machetes. The primary part of a rainforest usually doesn't have thick undergrowth, because the canopy prevents the forest floor from receiving sunlight.

 

[m15a]

Its sometimes used as a synonym for any tropical forests, although there are more types of tropical forest than a rainforest, and there are also temperate rainforests to which the term wouldn't apply.

A more specific is to refer to forest areas in which there's thick undergrowth, where the vegetation is thick and impenetrable. Hence all the tropes about cutting down jungle vines with machetes. The primary part of a rainforest usually doesn't have thick undergrowth, because the canopy prevents the forest floor from receiving sunlight.

Alright. I think I get it now... so, supposing there were jungle and rainforest tiles, could it make sense to have rainforest tiles surrounded by jungle tiles in tropical regions of the map? Like, maybe the rainforest tiles have some really good bonuses but be blocked off by not so good jungle? And possibly there could be the occasional rainforest tile in regular forests. Maybe even rainforest is a bonus resource that could be placed on jungle or forest.

I still think it's likely that it's just one type of tile in Civ 6, but just trying to think of a way having both would make game sense while also having some real world analogy.

 

[Oerdin]

My guess it is the same tile.