Just a moment to remember

[Kefka]

Originally posted by Aristonico:

Originally posted by Graeme the mad:
I agree we need more people like MLK and washington (and ghandi too IMHO)

HOwever we do not need more people like Lincoln. His decision to free the slaves came only because he knew that that was the way to victory in the war

"Four scores and seven years ago Our Fathers brought forth upon this continent a new Nation, concieved and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing wether this nation or any nation so concieved and so dedicated can long endure..."
That is the beginning of the A.Lincoln Speech. I supposed you can find any link to it (I am in a lazy mood right now) and it is just from my menmory. Do you think any KKK member would sign it? I thought the US Civil War started due to the pretension of the President to free all the slaves in the USA territory...
Archeology is a science: check your hipotesis before they can become Thesis.[I/]

Regards

[This message has been edited by Aristonico (edited August 30, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Aristonico (edited August 30, 2001).]

Slavery was not the ONLY reason the war was started.

Four scores and seven years ago Our Fathers brought forth upon this continent a new Nation, concieved and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.(at that time all men meant all white land owning men) Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing wether this nation or any nation so concieved and so dedicated can long endure...

and he was not trying to free ALL slaves in the US just halt the expantion of slavery as the country moved west because the north held more votes and thus would help in re-elections if he was againts slavery.
ya know there were a few slave owning states in the Union.

Not everything is a clear cut as sixth grade history makes it sound.




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<IMG SRC="http://www.grworld.com/vanillacubesgames/files/kefka.gif" border=0>"Why Create things when you know they must be destroyed!"
"I will Create A monument to nothingness!"
good smilies at http://www.plauder-smilies.de/

 

[thedirk]

So how did a thread about MLK become a thread about Lincoln?

I don't think MLK would have ever run for president. Although that certainly would have been and interesting election. I would have liked to see the KKK squirming at the thought of a black president.

 

[Leowind]

I'm not an expert on the Civil Rights Movement, but my guess is that if MLK jr. had lived longer, the Civil Rights MOvement would have been far less violent, and less room for the ultra-radical and more violent groups would have been found. MLK's message was always couched in peaceful protest. He never (to my knowledge) condoned violence, even in the face of injustice and oppression. There were and are many who continued the work MLK had such a great impact on, but when I say we need more like him, this peaceful approach is what I mean. MLK worked hard to gain rights denied to Blacks in our country, but he always remembered that even those who hated him the most were deserving of love and respect. Many in the Civil Rights Movement then, and even today, forget this fact, and end up polarizing the issues and entrenching hatred on both sides, rather than seeking true peace and equality. It is NOT coincidental, although very much glossed over in most histories, that MLK was who he was because he was first of all a pastor who believed that God loved all people equally; the Black who had no rights as much as, but no more than, the KKK member denying those rights.

And yes, I would definitly include Ghandi in that very short list for the same reason: peaceful protest.

 

[dreadhead7]

Dr. King did say in his writings that he was very much influenced by Gandhi as well. And, no, Dr. King never approved of violence in any way, shape, or form.

And, Leowind, I agree with you that many of today's civil rights leaders are polarizing the African-American community, and alienating the very ones who would be their allies. Yes, I'm a proud African-American, but I don't always agree with the issues being brought up. I would be a consummate fool if I didn't acknowledge that there has been, and still is, racism and injustice in this country. However, I think sometimes, that the tendency among some of us, including some of the "leaders", is to blame Whites for all of our problems. I personally feel that this is WRONG! If you get up off of your duff and work hard, and persevere, you WILL succeed, despite our racist society. I have personally witnessed too many stunning examples of African-Americans who have risen from abject poverty and soul-crushing hardships to become extremely successful doctors, lawyers, and businesspeople. Maybe I have lost the respect of many of you for my beliefs, but I have Dr. King to guide me in this. He would not have been one to blame others for his problems.

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"Shake the world beneath your feet up"
--Johnny Clegg

 

[Håkan Eriksson]

You are a bunch of hypocrites. You celebrate the date of a speach of a leader that were against discrimination of color and slavery and all that.

While in South Africa a conference on racism has opened and the United States Secretary of State Colin Powell will not even be attending.

Before the conference The United States disavowed a demand by various Africans and African-Americans to discuss slavery as a crime against humanity or the idea of compensation for slave descendants.

That's becouse the U.S don't wan't to get anything which could expose them to hugely expensive law suits.

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Martin Luther King was a grate man, but you guys are hypocrites. You are only anti-racists when you don't have anything to loose on it. Why don't you pay tribute to the Afro-american population insted?

 

[dreadhead7]

Hakan Eriksson, I am no hypocrite. I DON'T like the idea that my government refuses to participate, and has fueled these rows. I feel that even though the government doesn't agree with the issue of reparations, or language regarding Israel, they should be there and participate. I don't think that you should generalize so easily, because just because we are Americans, doesn't mean that we always agree with the things that our government does. And no, I am in no way meaning to be rude to you. I just would like for you to think some things through before you make sweeping generalizations.

edit--minor punctuation stuff.
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"Shake the world beneath your feet up"
--Johnny Clegg

[This message has been edited by dreadhead7 (edited August 31, 2001).]

 

[Graeme the mad]

The international confrence on racism is a joke: it was meant as a way for poor african countries to extract money from western countries through reperations for slavery

Reperations for slavery??? - Am I the only who considers this a completley stupid idea?

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people

 

[Håkan Eriksson]

Originally posted by Graeme the mad:
The international confrence on racism is a joke: it was meant as a way for poor african countries to extract money from western countries through reperations for slavery

NO, it isn't. The idea is to talk and learn about the past so that it won't happen again.


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<IMG SRC="http://w1.316.telia.com/~u31613053/sig.gif" border=0>

 

[Leowind]

While I understand the sentiment behind reparations, I think to some extent it's a bit like charging the children of Nazi death camp guards with war crimes. Yes injustices were perpetrated on entire peoples, but I didn't do it. My government didn't even do it. The government in place in my country many years ago may have done it, but the current government certainly didn't. That's not to say, of course, that we shouldn't be discussing it. If others feel so strongly about reparations, then there may be some legitimacy to their claim, and it must be at least considered. Some sort of concessions may be very appropriate, but I don't think the kind of economic reparations being asked of are necessarily what's warranted.
BTW, I'm getting more and more disgusted with my current government's complete lack of regard for the world community. Powell not attending this conference is simply the latest in a string of poor choices. Please don't EVER assume that I support what my government does, or agree with it's ideology. Our government may be hypocritical at times, but don't lay that charge on me because of what they do/say.

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

The world was a different place for a long, long time. Just because we've reached a 'civilized' era where we agree that slavery, mass warefare, and conquest in general are wrong, and not conducive to a healthy global society, doesn't mean that we should start making amends everywhere for everything now seen as morally injust. How many European/North African/Asia Minorian are filing lawsuits against their old Italian occupiers? Yeah, I didn't think so. How many Chinese are lining up to recieve checks from their old Mongolian overlords? Hmm? There was a time on this earth when such activities as slavery were considered OK. Is that our fault? No, of course not. We can learn from these mistakes, but it isn't right to make people pay for what was simply the status quo at the time.

MLK is one of the greatest compliments human kind could've ever recieved.

 

[Kefka]

Originally posted by Cunobelin Of Hippo:

MLK is one of the greatest compliments human kind could've ever recieved. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif" border=0>

you should'nt put anyone up on a petistol because regardless of him being a great man, there were other's too and without knowing it you may have just set limatations for yourself.


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<IMG SRC="http://www.grworld.com/vanillacubesgames/files/kefka.gif" border=0>"Why Create things when you know they must be destroyed!"
"I will Create A monument to nothingness!"
good smilies at http://www.plauder-smilies.de/

 

[dreadhead7]

I expressed my views about reparations in the "underdog" thread. I know that my views may surprise some people. Since I don't know how to link to that thread, I'll tell you the long and short of my views: NOT a good idea! I think it's divisive, and it doesn't make sense to punish folks for what their ancestors did. That's the view of many in my circle of friends who happen to be African-American. So, don't make the mistake of believing that just because I'm of African descent, that I'm just going to fall into step with what others are thinking. I prefer to think for myself, thank you.

This wasn't directed ant anyone, per se. I think that it'a important to know that we African Americans have differing views on that issue.



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"Shake the world beneath your feet up"
--Johnny Clegg

 

[Juize]

(quote)
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The international confrence on racism is a joke
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I agree - Mr. Bush again just F@ked the whole world & UN.
God, I'm going to kill that man someday...
(PS: Does these flags work?

)

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<IMG SRC="http://www.virtuallandmedia.com/img2/flags-4/europe/FIN.GIF" border=0> I have stolen this idea from Az.I'm a pathetic little wimp. <IMG SRC="http://www.virtuallandmedia.com/img2/flags-4/europe/SWE.GIF" border=0>

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

No. Nobody's flags are working today. I guess they changed the address again.