Kal-el
Deity
Sorry I haven't had time to draw anything over the holidays. Not to worry I will get back to the drawing board soon.
Kal-el's Unit Concept Sketches
- Thread starter Kal-el
- Start date
we already have this, it is called a cataphract, and like the other Roman units I have been having made is a very real troop type used by the Roman empire in a time fully approprieate to ba called a replacment for such a unit
for some reason I get this image of tank treads with a giant curved sutum shwild on top, ith the barrel of the main gun sticiking out one end
here i dont think flavor units are possible for anything modern- all airfact are of the same basic priniciple fo airodynamis, which is why they all look more or less the same whewn you get down to it, IMO, the only major differnce between the "latest" Roman jet, and say an f-22 in current production for general military use next year would be that the Roman jet would have the following insignia on it-
Attachments
as a side note i for one am glad we will finally get new art work by Kal here- though i should note, soem of my own designs are soon coming to frutation, but on a single, very cool unit I have planned to ask a unit creator to make- hopefully Kal-el will be willing to lease his unit creator Kinboat for a short while to at least make some of the props for it, if not the full unit, as it will be custom prop heavey, and Kinboat has a nack for making such things, expect soem art to come around soon
but kal-El- please, soem more of your great work soon!
but kal-El- please, soem more of your great work soon!
Bobby Lee
Confederate General
actually thats pretty much true about the jet...not alot of difference between anyones arsenals anymore (in how they look I mean)
tank wise you have the same problem I think....cept maybe one civ would go for lighter and one heavier and better armed...
prolly the same (in civ scale) with todays infantry....i mean its gonna be camo, an assault weapon of sum type, maybe sum grenades, etc. but nothin really different
In the WWI and WWII infantry (and before that though u might have differences (if only slight ones)
tank wise you have the same problem I think....cept maybe one civ would go for lighter and one heavier and better armed...
prolly the same (in civ scale) with todays infantry....i mean its gonna be camo, an assault weapon of sum type, maybe sum grenades, etc. but nothin really different
In the WWI and WWII infantry (and before that though u might have differences (if only slight ones)
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
I know every modern millitary looks exactly(well not exactly but close) the same. What I'm saying is I'd like to see units that DONT have camo coloration, look like works of art from their respective cultures(Imagine a Jet fighter thats painted totally gold and resembles a Plumed Serphent, THATS what I'm talkin about)
It was primaryly the machine gun which killed off the idea of each country having different looking units(uniforms) as camoflage and stealth took the place of face to face combat. I'd like to see what units would look like if the machine gun, and its precursor, the Gatling Gun were never created.
One thing that would not be around today: Tanks
Since Tanks were created orginally as protection for horses. Without the Machine-Gun, cavalry units would continue to be a part of armies today I'd imagine.
It was primaryly the machine gun which killed off the idea of each country having different looking units(uniforms) as camoflage and stealth took the place of face to face combat. I'd like to see what units would look like if the machine gun, and its precursor, the Gatling Gun were never created.
One thing that would not be around today: Tanks
Since Tanks were created orginally as protection for horses. Without the Machine-Gun, cavalry units would continue to be a part of armies today I'd imagine.
Bobby Lee
Confederate General
actually now that u bring it up there are sum who think the day of cavalry is not completely over....that over time....it will come back and be used in terrain unsuitable for tanks and such...still would pose a problem though...I have never understood those arguements
aaminion00
Stoned
Oh man, people try to argue classical history with Xen but it never works. You gotta love it 
I think I'll jump into this thread. I for one wouldn't mind some fictional modern units for various civs. Just a generic tank for example with Green camoflague and "S.P.O.R." written on the side would be good for the Romans. For the Greeks you could just add a little hoplite crest onto the turret or something. Babylonians, you make the turret a ziggarut, etc. etc.
I think I'll jump into this thread. I for one wouldn't mind some fictional modern units for various civs. Just a generic tank for example with Green camoflague and "S.P.O.R." written on the side would be good for the Romans. For the Greeks you could just add a little hoplite crest onto the turret or something. Babylonians, you make the turret a ziggarut, etc. etc.
Dom Pedro II
Modder For Life
Cavalry, as I've said, will never be cavalry again. Sure, horses are still used, but they're from getting soldiers from point A to point B.
However, over time Rome could possible stop with the SPQR.. and Greece could have had better glories than their ancient times. Oh and why would the Babylonians use the ziggurat for their tanks.. not so practical.
Just my take on such adjustment to modern units. The USA doesn't model units on any American monument. The British, Germans, do they? I think not. Although it would implement flavor.. I don't see it being realistic. I think you would rather have to implement the current nation's design and maybe some less symbolic icon for such units. I guess the SPQR could be used, but I still don't know about a hoplite helm or ziggurat.
For the Greek tank you could possibly add some useful structure of gun which resembles a feathered helm, or a spear of some sort. Get what I'm saying?
Just my take on such adjustment to modern units. The USA doesn't model units on any American monument. The British, Germans, do they? I think not. Although it would implement flavor.. I don't see it being realistic. I think you would rather have to implement the current nation's design and maybe some less symbolic icon for such units. I guess the SPQR could be used, but I still don't know about a hoplite helm or ziggurat.
For the Greek tank you could possibly add some useful structure of gun which resembles a feathered helm, or a spear of some sort. Get what I'm saying?
Oh and on calvary. Calvary is pretty much obsolete for military purposes in the modern day world. Most countries which used horses now have a good supply of tanks and other modern calvaries (such as tanks). However, you never know and maybe someday a devolution will occur and horses will be used once again.
aaminion00
Stoned
I understand what you're saying, but the practicality of a modern unit for ancient civilizations isn't my biggest concern. My biggest concern would be that it's distinguishable for the rest, which is hard to do for a generic modern design. As for the ziggarut, why not? I'm talking about tanks from the late 1800's, early 1900's, not modern armor. Nations had some very strange designs. And as for the SPQR, I would assume that it would stay, for if Democracy made a comeback it would seem only reasonably that the Romans would want to associate with the ancient republic.
Oh, I thought you were talking about modern armor. Alright, yes I agree with you that such designs would be good for such units. A ziggurat, hoplite helm, and SPQR would work for those perfectly. Such units being distinguishable is an importance.
I'd rather see pre-tank flavor units first however. I never really cared much for the Modern Era in Civ3, Industrial being my favorite. I'd love to see flavors for the Rifleman and Infantry units.
I'd rather see pre-tank flavor units first however. I never really cared much for the Modern Era in Civ3, Industrial being my favorite. I'd love to see flavors for the Rifleman and Infantry units.
aaminion00
Stoned
I personally wish that all the unit creators would pull together for about a month to create a flavor unit for every single unit for one specific civ. Let's say the Japanese since they're the most complete... 4-5 unit creators work on filling out all the slots that remain for the Japanese. When that's done, they move on to the next most complete civ, which would be Germany. Right now it's just sort of a random filling of the slots... if everyone worked on one civ specifically, we'd see great results sooner.
Dom Pedro II
Modder For Life
Here, here... I've been very much in favor of this as you all know.. just look at my siggy if you've never been... 
... though the discussion group is basically dead, don't bother with that unless you want to see pictures.
Unfortunately, to really complete the Japanese, we need somebody who can model ships and such. I mean, what else is there for the Japanese? Basically all the land units are done, industrial planes are done, and there's even an aircraft carrier and a battleship. There is NOT, there is NOT, however Japanese sailing ships. I was hoping aaglo would take this up, but he never did... and nobody else has expressed an interest in dabbling in ships it seems...
... though the discussion group is basically dead, don't bother with that unless you want to see pictures.Unfortunately, to really complete the Japanese, we need somebody who can model ships and such. I mean, what else is there for the Japanese? Basically all the land units are done, industrial planes are done, and there's even an aircraft carrier and a battleship. There is NOT, there is NOT, however Japanese sailing ships. I was hoping aaglo would take this up, but he never did... and nobody else has expressed an interest in dabbling in ships it seems...
Hmm.. very smart idea.. this would make the perfect plan. Then after completion, begin work on another civ until all are completed.
Embryodead has some good ships perhaps he can do it. I wish I had the skills to create units because if I did I would be creating all sorts of flavor units.
I have Anim8or, Flicster and Adobe PhotoShop 7.0.. are there any other programs that I need to create units? I would also need a good tutorial which tells me how to create units and possibly work Anim8or (because I don't get it at all).
Darn, only if I had the skills I would be devoted all my time to unit creation.
Embryodead has some good ships perhaps he can do it. I wish I had the skills to create units because if I did I would be creating all sorts of flavor units.
I have Anim8or, Flicster and Adobe PhotoShop 7.0.. are there any other programs that I need to create units? I would also need a good tutorial which tells me how to create units and possibly work Anim8or (because I don't get it at all).
Darn, only if I had the skills I would be devoted all my time to unit creation.
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
Realistically, the Romans and Greeks probably wouldn't have Hoplite or Legionary helms on treads for a tank, and I'm not sure I would like to see one in game in either case either(It would look like something from a cartoon.) I'd imagine tanks designed by the Romans would be colored Bronze(on the main body) and red(On the tank's main cannon) and possibly have imperial insignias painted on them. The Greeks would probably have a similiar design.
On the other hand, some work needs to be done on the civs across the board, flavor-wise, and realism wise.
For instance, the Azteks, Mayans and Incans never saw horses, let alone rode them, so horseman and Knights are out of the question(Replace the Horseman with Eagle Warriors, and the Knights with Armored Eagle Warriors) However, I can see them having horses by the time Cavalry come into the picture.
The Japanese ancient and medival units are already done(PtW extras foldier) But some work on Industrial units(Did you know that the Japanese used Samurai armed with Guns at one point?)
As for the modern era being devoid of flavor, its unfortunate, but true. American culture is the most dominent on the planet, much like Rome was back in the day, its only natural this would reflect warfare as well.
However, since everyone seemed to enjoy seeing Future unit concept art, why not imagine units of the future for every civ in the game. Imagine Roman Legionarre Mecha, European Knight Mecha, heck, maybe even Egyptian Anubis Warrior Mecha!
These Mecha units would diffinitely upgrade from Tanks if they were in the game itself.
On the other hand, some work needs to be done on the civs across the board, flavor-wise, and realism wise.
For instance, the Azteks, Mayans and Incans never saw horses, let alone rode them, so horseman and Knights are out of the question(Replace the Horseman with Eagle Warriors, and the Knights with Armored Eagle Warriors) However, I can see them having horses by the time Cavalry come into the picture.
The Japanese ancient and medival units are already done(PtW extras foldier) But some work on Industrial units(Did you know that the Japanese used Samurai armed with Guns at one point?)
As for the modern era being devoid of flavor, its unfortunate, but true. American culture is the most dominent on the planet, much like Rome was back in the day, its only natural this would reflect warfare as well.
However, since everyone seemed to enjoy seeing Future unit concept art, why not imagine units of the future for every civ in the game. Imagine Roman Legionarre Mecha, European Knight Mecha, heck, maybe even Egyptian Anubis Warrior Mecha!
These Mecha units would diffinitely upgrade from Tanks if they were in the game itself.
Dom Pedro II
Modder For Life
Personally, I think we should hold off on tank discussions. Frankly, we haven't anybody to make them... we DO however have plenty of people who can make human and cavalry units.
Perhaps because we haven't caught their imaginations.
Both Romans and Greeks would be concerned with AFVs fit to defend their home terrain (narrow mountain passes etc.); able to be ship-borne; able to do some damage for penetration into Eurasia.
What fits all these criteria? --
1. Light, turretless, defensive AFVs like the Strindsvagen or the Stug series. (See also point (3) below.)
2. Articulated body AFVs for really rough terrain (the Swedes have been working with such vehicles) for infantry transport and artillery support.
3. On a little more "fantastical" note (and drawing some on point (1) above) sponsons and/or jack turrets behind very heavy frontal armor (perhaps somewhat of a cross between a "V" and a bulldozer blade).
Due to the nature of the terrain and missions, the vehicles in general would be more geared towards infantry support than "blitzkrieg" per se -- indeed, assuming that formative, heavy combat experiene took place in the Italian and Balkan peninsulae, blitzkrieg warfare might never have come into being (no flanks to turn) but expect some extraordinary mountain infantry ...
... Just some thoughts
-Oz
@Ozy- go to Italy, and see the sight- aside form the alps, there are not a great deal of pressing mountain ranges that would require developing an ATV, when Infantry serves as well, or better in defending those positions- though Italy should be the last place you base designs on, as if the Roman empire had survived- ti would likelly be just that- an empire, and as such the most usefull "unviersal" design of tank would be the one built by the romans, as it would mean that a single unit has more uses then any comparble unit of another army...
aaminion00
Stoned
Making perfect targets for civs that actually camoflagued their armies according to their local terrain
. The Romans never actually developed tanks, and therefore we are basically free to do as we wish. We could try to develop something accurate for classical civs, but we would be most likely be completely wrong. Making a flavor unit distinguishable for the civilization that has it is in my opinion slightly more important than trying to figure out exactly what Ceaser would've had in mind. I see absolutely no reason why a slight crest (not bright red or 10 feet high, just a slightly potruding crest shaped bump down the middle of the turret), would be less realistic than painting a tank yellow and red because those were the colors associated with the civilizations. The ancient Chinese flag was black, should we make their tanks black then?What? Well, the Mesoamerican civilizations didn't have jet fighters or gunpowder units either, so maybe we should just give them little pebble throwers with 12+attack and bombard capability. Better yet, maybe we shouldn't give them anything from the last 2 eras, seeing as they didn't survive that long in the first place.
The fact of the matter is that Civ3 is a fictional game, where Sumerians can start a world war with nuclear weapons in 1764 A.D. Why shouldn't the Mesoamericans have horsemen? If they had horses nearby their villages, like they often do in the game, there is no reason that they wouldn't have learned to domesticate them and use them in war. Check the unit graphics forum for an excellent example of a Jaguar Musketman flavor unit for the Aztecs.
How so? Nearly every civ included in the game that has survived into the present age enjoys some variation of it's own modern battle tank. They look vastly different to me. An airplane is an airplane; true. But that doesn't mean that the civs included would all be flying the same things.
Why discuss a future age when we can't add eras, it would cramp up the modern age, and we haven't even done flavor units for the eras we already have. And why are you willing to put in giant machines that may or may not be possible or practical and make them into some sort of colorful band of super heros, but not willing to have a slight crest on a roman tank?
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