Kal-el's Unit Concept Sketches

Assuming that the Romans maintained their military tradition, we could say that the tanks that they would have developed would have been much like their ancient legions. Well equipped, somewhat slow, but terribly efficient in direct combat. I'm not saying edit the tank stats, but make the tank heavily armored, definetly large, so as to indicate it's strength but lack of speed and perhaps manuverablity. This would be in contrast to the military strategy of Rome's enemies; lightly armored, manuverable, speedy, and cheap to build.

Of course I'm sure Xen will tell you all that the Roman legions were very fast actually, but let's just pretend I'm right ;)
 
Originally posted by Xen
@Ozy- go to Italy [...]

Been there :) .

One of my points is that the "Empire" could have survived in any number of forms, from one of four pre-eminent Mediterranean states to some hypothetical "shortening of the limes" to the Danube.

Either way, operations across the Adriatic would certainly be comprehensible (if not inevitable) -- i.e., across water to mountainous terrain; and your point about infantry and my point about infantry support AFVs seem consonant.

Indeed, I can even imagine the Romans becoming as dependent upon SEVs (Surface Effects Vehicles -- hovercraft) as the USMC currently is, specifically for amphibious work and maybe some places with especially flat terrain, like Egypt ...

-Oz
 
I think we have missed the point again... we need to know how they look not what type of units... meaning for all civs they need an individual unit to fit in with the generic descriptions...

For example:

we need a rifleman type unit for EVERYONE....a chariot type unit for EVERYONE...and so on with EVERY other unit in the game...I can get a complete list if thats wut we need.
 
Originally posted by Bobby Lee
I think we have missed the point again... we need to know how they look not what type of units... meaning for all civs they need an individual unit to fit in with the generic descriptions...

For example:

we need a rifleman type unit for EVERYONE....a chariot type unit for EVERYONE...and so on with EVERY other unit in the game...I can get a complete list if thats wut we need.

What? I suppose you have a detailed sketch of what a Roman tank would look like?

That's all we have right now, types of units, and there are big differences bewteen different types of tanks or armored vehicles. We cannot say exactly how a Mayan tank would've looked like (and why anyone would purposely draw away unit creators over a fictional unit is beyond me), and most of us don't have the time to draw a sketch of it. So, giving a basic outline and a few suggestions is all we can do.
 
Originally posted by Bobby Lee
I think we have missed the point again... we need to know how they look not what type of units... meaning for all civs they need an individual unit to fit in with the generic descriptions...

I'm not an artist so I can't draw what I mean, so I'll try to describe, in better detail, the "Greco-Roman" infantry support tank I began to describe above:

1. Start with the WW1 French Saint Chamond (see pic below)

2. Change and exaggerate it's frontal angles so it looks more like a "V"-shaped bulldozer blade which reaches higher than the tank's roof.

3. Add a sponson turret on either side of the vehicle.

4. Add a "jack-turret", i.e., one which can be elevated over the frontal armor protection provided by the "'dozer blade" configuration.

5. Intersperse liberally with "modern" infantry formations and go to town :) .

Best,

Oz
 
no we dont what we need are all the MAJOR units used by a civ, or all the MAJOR units that would have been used for a civ- takeing the Romans as an example, it is more important to get a Roman tank then it is to get a Roman chariot- becuase while the Romans at the very beginning might have used tanks in the style of the Mycenean Greeks, and other bronze age civilization around, its obvious they didnt use them on any scale beyond what the Myceneasns did- that use being not as an actual tool of war, but as a transport to take thechampions, and heros of the army from point to point on a battle feild to fight with opponents chamions- in other words making ll those heroic tales and epics we read about today happen in the first place ;) al lwhile the foot troops move ponderoussly across the battlefeild, under the lesser nobles, or middleclass men who act as the actual commanders of the army, and actually fight the battle....

while in contrast, at soem point a tank becomes inevitable in some form, and it is garunteed to have a strong impact on Roman arms...

though to be honest, my current design for a Roman is shooting for the single period in time when all options arer open to me- and I get to let my thoughts on how the Romans would have continued to have a strong use of infantry legions as the back bone of the army- supplemented by garrisons of specialty Auxilla for differnt locations in the empire- for example, lets a modern Rome has garrison duties in the Congo river basin- the very backbone of the garrison, say 15% would perhaps consist of actual legionasries, who in contrast would make the complete garrison of the central territories of the empire surrounding the med- its auxilliaries, equipped in a manner best suited to fight in the local terrain who woul dmake ou the mulk of the force- and for all real purposes, tanks are more less a cavalry wing attached when needed, but always present in some numbers eveywhere in the empire ;)
 
Personally, I not only think alternate history civ-specific tanks are unnecessary, I think they are just plain dumb. I mean, honestly, what country has developed tanks based on their culture? Ozy has a good point about giving them weaponry that fits according to their geography in the real world... but that doesn't require Roman or Greek or Babylonian tanks... it just means that you have to have a variety of generic tanks that fit various criteria. Light and fast, large and powerful, etc.

And I think that ultimately, a tank is a tank. And if the Romans had survived to today, they're tanks would look a lot like everybody else's tanks depending on the class they would choose to focus on. But that's about it: classes of tanks.

I think if we've got people who can make tanks from scratch their talents would be better served either A) making real tanks for civs that had them, or B) making other things like flavor ships for extinct and not extinct civilizations. Because it's in the age of sail when you're really going to have some oppurtunity for creating diverse and interesting units...
 
Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
Personally, I not only think alternate history civ-specific tanks are unnecessary, I think they are just plain dumb. I mean, honestly, what country has developed tanks based on their culture?

in thw world wars Britain used fairlly light- medium tanks, the US used tanks that were asilyy massed produced, germans made tanks that while more or less uperior to almost all the enimies tanks were in short number, and some of the finer poitns of them being inferior to the allies tanks eventually got them knocked off the battle feild, and then the Russians just made what the situtation called for ;)

as you can see, there is actually a great deal in variation of just what kind of a tank a culture produces- in the case of Rome, theres a good chance of being a soviet-panzer-standard allied tank hybrid on steroids ;)- all at the cost of being hidiouslly expensive to actually make, rather expensive to maintain (over all, but actuall repairs woul dbe rather cheap, and quick), and even though few in number, a tru force to be reckond with on the battle feild- more or less, treaded legions ;)
 
The tanks produced by the countries you mentioned were built the way they were built as a matter of practicality. Not culture. I said that much already.

I didn't deny there was variation. What I'm saying is that they didn't make tanks based on their culture. They made them on the basis of geography and combat strategy.

In other words, the Romans could get a heavy tank but it would not have to be a Roman tank. And anything that would make it a uniquely Roman tank would most likely be entirely too fantastic to be real.
 
but that practicality also seems to have fit the culture of each nation ;)
 
Strategy is sometimes a product of culture, but much it is much more rare in the western world.

I still have not seen a decent case for these culturally-specific tanks over say a series of generic tanks ranging in weight, armament, and speed.
 
I agree with Xen here. For civilizations who are alive, we can easily use whatever tank they use as their primary modern armor in the real world. For civilizations that never developed tank we can make fake ones based on a variety of different things:

1. Strategical History

For example, the Zulu and other civilization who preferred light skirmish tactics would have light, easily manuverable tanks. We don't have to edit the stats to do this; just show a tank that is noticably lighter than some others. The Romans who preferred heavy legions might instead have had a noticably heavier tank with more firepower.

2. Geographical History

The Incans who were centered around the mountains and amazon would've probably preferred a tank suitable to rough terrain, with camoflague for the jungle and hills. The Hittites meanwhile would probably preferr a more sandyish camoflague, as would the Babylonians and Sumerians.

3. Practicality based on Strategical History

Assuming some civilizations carried out their basic strategies throughout history like they did before they fell, we can make some assumptions about the tanks. Carthage for example, always focused more on being a naval power. It would be safe to assume that if this continued, their tanks wouldn't be as strongly developed as those of other nations (Japan in WWII was a perfect example of this. The Mongols meanwhile, who never truly focused on their navy compared to their great horde, might have eventually developed a tank that could be manufactured quickly and which could move fast to suit their ancient strategies.

4. Cultural History

This is minor compared to the others, but it may have an impact on the basic look of the modern weaponry. The Romans for example, could've very well eventually returned to the republican form of goverment like much of the world did in the last 300 years. They would've probably been proud of their ancient heritage, and SPQR could've very well become the moto for Rome's new legions. SPQR on the turret would be reasonable.

--------------------

You might ask why we need tank flavor units when they all look so similar in todays day and age. Well, while I agree that I'd much rather fill out the human figures first due to their uniqueness, leaving out the modern weaponry would seem very strange and almost unfilling. It would just seem very strange to one day have a flavor unit for ever human unit for every civilization, and then play a game to the modern age, and find that the flavor dissapears. Human figures have a much higher priority, but leaving out half the modern age would take away that feeling of being truly fully "flavorized".
 
Well, since most of the people who make human units do not have the capabilities of creating tanks from scratch, I will say that I don't think creating tanks units will sap strength away from the human units.

However, those who can make tanks can also make ships and siege weaponry, which I think should be the top priority.

I think a series of generic tanks and modern armor would do well thereafter for the given civilizations on the basis of their geographical positions and overall strategy of fighting.

If after that people feel like creating these civ-specific tanks, then I'll say fine. I won't use them most likely, but if one person will, I guess it serves a purpose.
 
Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
Well, since most of the people who make human units do not have the capabilities of creating tanks from scratch . . .

Hey! Some of us can. ;)
 

Attachments

  • babtank.gif
    babtank.gif
    8.3 KB · Views: 261
well anyways, im just curious to see wut Kal turns out next... :)

Im hoping for a rifleman unit for all civs...that would be awsome...

I can so visualize my whole civ map with diverse rifleman ... hehe Theres the US one next to the Carthaginians (lol)

what would the riflemen of the romans wear? would they be red? or maybe purpleish...Question: Xen, what color was the real Roman Color? U know like the US is blue and Britain is like that bright red and so on...
 
actually, the Roman military coulrs are the same as the American national colors- Red, White, and several shades of Blue
 
that said, it was primairlly red ;)
 
lol, so maybe the Romans would have a uniform for thier rifleman like a cross between French Rifleman and Italian Rifleman with the main color being red and perhaps a bit of white and blue :)

what do u think Xen?

btw- i kinda like ur name...u know...Xen it just kind sounds fun and is fun to say...
 
Back
Top Bottom