Kerbal Space Program

I did my fair share of major reloads in my last mission. I don't mind tweaking a bit on the longer missions when I set myself to do them, but I do get aggravated when an encounter just barely taps a planet's gravity well but doesn't significantly change your trajectory, so there are overlaying orbit lines and you can no longer plan maneuvers on the blue line because it only lets you put them on the purple one. :mad:
 
^^ That is a huge problem and I hope they fix it sooner rather than later.

I'd respond to the other posts, but I have been pretty busy lately. Only 4 weeks until my trip, work is crazy, and today is Canadian thanksgiving.
 
For my Moho missions, I set up the first maneuver to get within 2 million km, then I had to manually fire at the six axes and watch the map screen to see if I was getting closer or further away. Reloaded if I got further away. It was very time-consuming and tedious.
 
I'm amazed that I didn't see this thread before today, KSP is one of my favorite non-civ games. I just finished landing and returning 3 kerbals from Moho, next target, Tylo (just to see if I can).
 
I'm amazed that I didn't see this thread before today, KSP is one of my favorite non-civ games. I just finished landing and returning 3 kerbals from Moho, next target, Tylo (just to see if I can).

Nice!

I didn't actually land on Moho, but I have done some manned flyby missions. It looks so different since they updated the graphics pack for it.
 
Nice!

I didn't actually land on Moho, but I have done some manned flyby missions. It looks so different since they updated the graphics pack for it.

Tip: Use Eve very liberally for gravity assists. I spent a little under 3 km/s each way in the Interplanetary Space Bus (my standard nuke-powered pusher for these things) and hit up Eve going both ways to both kill orbital velocity (relative to the Sun) and do the plane change maneuver. The most common way to fail the Moho and back mission is to just do a straight Hohmann transfer (spending 3 km/s right there) and then realize you are moving over 15 km/s at both of your nodes (so another 2 km/s for the plane change).

Also orbital velocity for Moho is 800-900 m/s, meaning that whatever you are sending to land needs to be a bit more robust than your typical mun design.
 
Finally managed to get the lander down. :)

I put my peroapsis on my flyby trajectory at about 19km, this provided enough aerobraking to slow me down enough to allow an orbit without expending too much delta V. Here's the trajectory I wound up on:
Spoiler :
attachment.php


From here I decided to more or less go for a straight landing. There wasn't any good spots on the day side so I tried to pick a good one on the night side. I thought about circularizing and waiting for the day side to line up with my peroapsis but I just didn't have the patience and didn't want to waste the fuel. The first place I tried to land was a largish island with a huge crater lake on it. Problem was that I would either wind up landing in the lake or land on the side of the mountain right next to it. That particular island is super mountainous (which I couldn't see before hand due to the darkness) so I couldn't really land there. I picked another island without a lake and set my peroapsis at 18.6km, which brought me in for a landing.

Spoiler :
attachment.php

Look how fast I was going! And that after I had already slowed down a bit.

I used the last bit of juice in my core stage to kill most of my translational velocity then dumped it. That left me with about 10 seconds to separate the stage, fire up the skipper landing engine, drop my landing gears, get my velocity below 100m/s and deploy the chutes. After the chutes opened, I had maybe another 7 seconds to get my final descent velocity right. It was freaking brutal and the timing had to be precise or I would crash.

I did find one last bug in my lander that hadn't popped up in testing: the landing legs give only a few centimeters of clearance for the engine bell. This wasn't a problem during descent tests on Kerbin where the descent was nice and slow due to the thick atmosphere and the landings there were on nice flat land near the KSC. On Laythe, the problem was that I descended a bit faster than on Kerbin and I landed on the side of a mountain. So when I hit the ground, my landing legs flexed a bit and that, coupled with the inclination of the mountain meant my engine clipped the ground and blew up.

So I can't test this thing to see if it can get back to orbit. :sad:

Here's where I landed:
Spoiler :
attachment.php

attachment.php


I'm on the edge of a valley, which means I won't be able to set up my final base here. However, the island I'm on is roughly equatorial, which will help me when I started putting the base together. Also, in the direction of the bottom of the 2nd picture, there is a large, flat plain where I can set down my base components. I'll leave this lander as a marker for when I send more stuff in the future.

Here's the launch vehicle. It's so big I can't zoom out all the way in the VAB to show it all to you, but this is pretty much it, the lander is clipped off at the top of the picture. It put over 200tons on an encounter trajectory with Jool. By the time I get to Laythe orbit, I think I still had 110tons, of which 65 was the lander.

Spoiler :
attachment.php


I've got a few tweaks planned for this vehicle. I'm going to delete the mainsail on the central stack. As you can see, each side booster has twin mainsails, which gives this rocket a phenomenal T/W right off the pad. The mainsail on the central core is thus unneeded and once I've ditched the last 2 side stages, I turn it off and switch to the NERVA's anyways.

I'm also going to disconnect the fuel lines that run from the last booster stages to the core since I won't need them without the mainsail on that stage.

I'm going to place decouplers on each of the 3 orange tanks on the central stack so I can dump them when they are empty. My current design carried the empty tanks with me all the way out to laythe (and they even wound up crashing onto the surface) and this was just a waste of deltaV. I'll have to move the NERVA's to the top tank in that stack of 3 so they don't get dumped, and I'll have to route fuel lines up the stack so that the bottom tanks get drained first so I can dump them.

Put docking ports and probe cores on the final tank! I wound up getting to Laythe with fuel left over in my central tank. Even with a slight heavier lander, I expect this will remain the case as I'll be dropping off additional empty tank mass in flight with my redesigned launcher. So if I add a probe core and a docking port to the final orange tank on my booster core, I can use it as an ersatz tanker in Laythe orbit. It won't have a ton of fuel to give up, but there's no point in wasting a single drop if I can avoid it. It'll also be nice to build up some infrastructure for my colony at Laythe and the core stage can also double as a communications relay and mapping/observation satellite. I may not end up with enough fuel left to make docking worth it but you never know.

Oh and I'll move the RCS thrusters. I placed them on the CoM of the core/lander stack, but since I'm not docking that stack to anything, having the thrusters there is terrible. Because they're on the CoM, the RCS thrusters can translate my ship easily without tumble, but they have to work very hard to turn it as there is no moment arm for them to act on. That's a serious problem and like I said, I'm not docking the thing on the trip out there so having the RCS thrusters on the CoM does me no good. I'll just have to deal with tumble if I try and use the final orange tank as a refueling station but it shouldn't be a big deal.

I'm going to add more chutes to the lander so I don't have to be a throttle jockey during the last few seconds of descent, I want a nice slow descent. I'm also going to add bigger fuel tanks to the side tanks. Currently, the lander has a T/W of about 1.06, but in Laythe's .8g, I can safely add 20% more mass and keep the same T/W. Also, because I do have to do a deorbit burn and a bit of a burn to slow to below 100m/s, that means I'll have less mass at lift-off from Laythe, which means I can start with more fuel and still have a T/W > 1 at lift-off. I also have to place the side tanks and landing legs lower to give more clearance to the skipper engine bell.

After I verify the refit of the launcher and lander, I'm going to send out 3 of these in a row. That will provide me with crew return options for 12 kerbalnauts. I'll send them all at the same time so that I can avoid spending hours per mission; I can hop from one ship to the next and just spend hours on the total mission as a caravan.

Oh and here's a picture of that little tug I designed:
Spoiler :
attachment.php


I'm probably going to send a stack of these to Laythe to assist with docking there in case any landers wind up short on deltaV or RCS fuel.
 

Attachments

  • subortibal trajectory.jpg
    subortibal trajectory.jpg
    115.4 KB · Views: 171
  • aerobraking.jpg
    aerobraking.jpg
    138.2 KB · Views: 198
  • Jool Rise.jpg
    Jool Rise.jpg
    106 KB · Views: 148
  • position.jpg
    position.jpg
    118.3 KB · Views: 146
  • LVL-2 launcher.jpg
    LVL-2 launcher.jpg
    258.4 KB · Views: 161
  • tug.jpg
    tug.jpg
    249.1 KB · Views: 148
Finally managed to get the lander down. :)

I put my peroapsis on my flyby trajectory at about 19km, this provided enough aerobraking to slow me down enough to allow an orbit without expending too much delta V. Here's the trajectory I wound up on:

From here I decided to more or less go for a straight landing. There wasn't any good spots on the day side so I tried to pick a good one on the night side. I thought about circularizing and waiting for the day side to line up with my peroapsis but I just didn't have the patience and didn't want to waste the fuel. The first place I tried to land was a largish island with a huge crater lake on it. Problem was that I would either wind up landing in the lake or land on the side of the mountain right next to it. That particular island is super mountainous (which I couldn't see before hand due to the darkness) so I couldn't really land there. I picked another island without a lake and set my peroapsis at 18.6km, which brought me in for a landing.

Look how fast I was going! And that after I had already slowed down a bit.

I used the last bit of juice in my core stage to kill most of my translational velocity then dumped it. That left me with about 10 seconds to separate the stage, fire up the new engines, drop my landing gears, get my velocity below 100m/s and deploy the chutes. After the chutes opened, I had maybe another 7 seconds to get my final descent velocity right. It was freaking brutal and the timing had to be precise or I would crash.

I did find one last bug in my lander that hadn't popped up in testing: the landing legs give only a few centimeters of clearance for the engine bell. This wasn't a problem during descent tests on Kerbin where the descent was nice and slow due to the thick atmosphere and the landings there were on nice flat land near the KSC. On Laythe, the problem was that I descended a bit faster than on Kerbin and I landed on the side of a mountain. So when I hit the ground, my landing legs flexed a bit and that, coupled with the inclination of the mountain meant my engine clipped the ground and blew up.

So I can't test this thing to see if it can get back to orbit. :sad:

Here's where I landed:

I'm on the edge of a valley, which means I won't be able to set up my final base here. However, the island I'm on is roughly equatorial, which will help me when I started putting the base together. Also, in the direction of the bottom of the 2nd picture, there is a large, flat plain where I can set down my base components. I'll leave this lander as a marker for when I send more stuff in the future.

(images removed from quote)

Needs moar chutes. Seriously though, great work, it isn't necessarily easy getting to Laythe.
 
Yeah, I was editing some stuff in while you wrote that. I definitely do need more chutes, I had to burn longer than I was comfortable with. :)

I've been to Laythe before but this time I'm working on a long term research station/colony. I wanted to test my reusable lander system before I sent out the other components.

Edit:

I am sad that Warpus was able to beat me and get his Kerbals off of Laythe before I set up my research station. I feel stupid that I wasted literally days working on a dead-end jet engine SSTO lander when I could've busted out my calculator and built a working lander in half an hour. Oh well, you live and learn. I've learned a ton already while working on this project and I'm in it for the long haul so hopefully I'll have a pretty spiffy base to show off in a couple of weeks or so.

I am seriously considering building a rocket to shoot down my jet engine SSTO lander that's stranded on LKO though.
 
I think establishing a small colony on Laythe will be my next big mission. I have another idea for a quick(-er) one right now, still trying to work out the details since it's not as easy as my Duna landing and colony idea. The grand tour will have to wait, some of my design ideas didn't work out in the VAB and I don't have a good substitute yet.
 
Will you post some pics of your crotch rockets?

The crotch rocket (the official name for the long-range solo traveler) is the smaller of the two craft that I posted above in orbit Moho. Voyager is the larger craft and is intended to be a permanent fixture of the space program--eventually, it is intended to carry kerbals back and forth from space stations in orbit of Kerbin, the Mun, and Duna, maybe Laythe too.
 
So what did you try to do in the VAB that didn't work?

The modifications to my lander and launcher worked perfectly (so far). I have another ship in route to Laythe and I will launch some more next time I play.
 
Here's a teaser of what I'm working on now. It is going to go and land on Tylo (at least the lander portion will) and hopefully return.

The drive stage is similar to the one I used for Moho (I only swapped out the solars for RTGs), and that got me there and back with a km/s to spare using gravity assists.
 

Attachments

  • 220200_2013-10-14_00001.jpg
    220200_2013-10-14_00001.jpg
    86.6 KB · Views: 50
Good luck! I have heard Tylo is the hardest body to land on with Kerbin's gravity and no atmosphere to slow you down. Does you lander have enough fuel to land and get back to orbit?

Good luck!
 
Good luck! I have heard Tylo is the hardest body to land on with Kerbin's gravity and no atmosphere to slow you down. Does you lander have enough fuel to land and get back to orbit?

Good luck!

In theory yes (2k in outer stages and 2.5k in center stage after asparagus staging). Tylo is hard as you said because of the punishing dV and TWR requirements from the lander, but IMHO the precision navigation to get to Moho was harder. After this I may think of going to Eve (which has extreme dV requirements but only going one way).
 
So what did you try to do in the VAB that didn't work?

The modifications to my lander and launcher worked perfectly (so far). I have another ship in route to Laythe and I will launch some more next time I play.

I was experimenting with ways to arrange fuel containers while keeping the same engine pod I have now. I like the look of the triple- and quad-nukes bunched together, reminds me of the victory ship from the first Master of Orion.
 
I'm going to try to put down a real, modular-style base on Minmus, including a modular comms/solar array that I plan to park on the top with RCS (we'll see how that goes over).

I have pulled off super close landings before, but it's been a while, and I haven't docked anything on the surface or docked a landing base together in space (perhaps a better option, and very doable in Minmus' influence). I'll use what I learn from this to try for a true Laythe colony, as opposed to one large lander.
 
What I learned from my modular Munar base is that it's absolutely critical to make sure your clampotrons are lined up exactly if you are going to dock modules on the surface (I didn't try and dock them in space and land them, they were too big). I used nearly identical modules, but the clampotrons were like .001m off and that was enough to keep the modules from docking. :mad:
 
For my Moho missions, I set up the first maneuver to get within 2 million km, then I had to manually fire at the six axes and watch the map screen to see if I was getting closer or further away. Reloaded if I got further away. It was very time-consuming and tedious.

What I do in this scenario is set up my maneuver, burn until intercept, and then set up a maneuver node a couple days ahead of me.. I tug at it slightly in one direction and see if the periapsis increased or decreased in value. If it decreased, I align my craft with the blue target thingy, delete the maneuver node, and burn slightly, always paying close attention to the periapsis. Once it stops decreasing, or doesn't decrease fast enough, I stop and try the same thing with another axis. It takes a bit longer, but prevents you from burning in random directions, saving you a bit of fuel.

I am sad that Warpus was able to beat me and get his Kerbals off of Laythe before I set up my research station.

Muahahahah :p

Mind you I was addicted. Friday I got home from work, ate, and went to work and spent hours on the mission. Then on Saturday I woke up at 9am and played the game until 6pm, virtually non stop.

Not many games can get me to put in that much time in a session.

My next long session might very well have to wait until late December. I want to visit Tylo and Pol. I feel at home in the Jool system now, so Moho might have to wait. After those, I'll have Eeloo left to land a guy on. And actually, maybe Dres. I've landed on Dres before, but my guy never made it back home.

After that I'd have landed guys on every single planet and moon and gotten them home safely. Might be a fun Christmas break set of missions to work on while it's cold and snowy outside.
 
Back
Top Bottom