Kerry attacks Cheney's Daughter

[Strider]

Dick Cheney and his wife say they are angry at John Kerry for invoking their lesbian daughter during the final presidential debate. Kerry says he was just trying to say something nice about how the Cheneys have dealt with the issue and meant no offense.

Temperatures have risen sharply since the vice presidential debate, just last week, when Democrat Sen. John Edwards mentioned Mary Cheney and the Republican vice president thanked him for his "kind words."

This time, a back-and-forth ensued that had the vice president's wife, Lynne Cheney, accusing Sen. Kerry of a "cheap and tawdry political trick" and Elizabeth Edwards, wife of Kerry's running mate, suggesting Mrs. Cheney was ashamed of her daughter.

Debating President Bush Wednesday night, Kerry referred to Mary Cheney when asked whether homosexuality is a choice.

"We're all God's children," he said. "And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was. She's being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not a choice."

Bush said he didn't know if it was a choice or not. But no one was talking about that on Thursday.

Kerry's defenders said he was well within bounds, particularly given that Cheney has also talked about his daughter when discussing gay issues.

But both the vice president and his wife went after Kerry with strong words.

"You saw a man who will do and say anything to get elected," Cheney told a rally in Fort Myers, Fla. "And I am not just speaking as a father here, although I am a pretty angry father."

He told a local TV station: "I thought it was totally inappropriate."

Mrs. Cheney was even sharper as she denounced Kerry after a debate party in the Pittsburgh suburb of Coraopolis, Pa., Wednesday night.

"This is not a good man," she said. "Of course, I am speaking as a mom, and a pretty indignant mom. This is not a good man. What a cheap and tawdry political trick."

A campaign spokeswoman said Mary Cheney declined to comment.

The communications director for Bush-Cheney, Nicolle Devenish, said Kerry miscalculated the impact of his remarks and now is "backpedaling from what is a crass, below-the-belt political strategy to attack the vice president's daughter."

She said his statement constituted "a political mistake that I think they'll pay a hefty price for."

Edwards defended his running mate, saying the subject was clearly fair game. "Dick Cheney and his wife, Lynne, had themselves brought it up," he said on MSNBC.

Edwards' wife, Elizabeth, was harsher, suggesting that while Mrs. Cheney has been "a wonderful advocate" for her daughter, she also might be ashamed of her.

"She's overreacted to this and treated it as if it's shameful to have this discussion. I think that's a very sad state of affairs," she told ABC radio. "I think that it indicates a certain amount of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences."

Some prominent politicians who have struggled with the issue said Thursday that Kerry's comments were well within bounds. "I think what John Kerry said was very kind," said Rep. Dick Gephardt (news - web sites), D-Mo., whose daughter is a lesbian.

Former Republican Rep. Steve Gunderson, who is gay, said: "It's trying to put a human face and make clear the issue of one's sexual orientation does not honor partisan lines."

Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), traveling with Bush Thursday, didn't buy it.

"Maybe Sen. Kerry didn't appreciate the sensitivity" of the subject, McCain, R-Ariz., told reporters on Air Force One. "Whether intended or not, it was very inappropriate."

Mary Cheney, who is openly gay, runs operations in the vice president's campaign office.

She and her partner were an established couple and owned a house together in Colorado when Dick Cheney was picked as Bush's running mate in 2000. Mary Cheney, who had run a gay and lesbian outreach program for Coors Brewing Co., wears a gold band on her left hand.

The pair sat side by side in the vice president's box during his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention, though neither joined the family onstage afterward, and neither was in sight for the convention finale a day later.

The Cheneys' other daughter, Liz, also works on the campaign and sometimes introduces her dad on the campaign trail.

The vice president spoke this summer about his daughter's sexuality and his view of gay relationships. He also publicly disagreed with Bush about the need for a constitutional amendment prohibiting same-sex marriages, saying he preferred that the states settle the issue.

"Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue our family is very familiar with," Cheney told a Davenport, Iowa, audience that included his daughter. "With respect to the question of relationships, my general view is freedom means freedom for everyone."

The vice president stated no objection when Edwards, a North Carolina senator, brought up Mary Cheney during their debate last week. Edwards expressed "respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter, the fact that they embrace her. It's a wonderful thing."

Cheney thanked his opponent for the "kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much."

In Wednesday night's debate, Bush and Kerry each said they believe marriage should be restricted to same-sex couples, but the president supports a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and Kerry does not. Kerry does support giving gay couples many of the civil rights that come with marriage.

Kerry is starting to get desperate if he wants to go after his rivals family.

 

[Duddha]

you mean Cheney is attacking Kerry for mentioning that his daughter is gay, not that Kerry attacked Cheney's daughter.

 

[Strider]

you mean Cheney is attacking Kerry for mentioning that his daughter is gay, not that Kerry attacked Cheney's daughter.

Actually, Kerry did attack cheney's daughter, and they countered.

 

[Duddha]

"And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was. She's being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not a choice."

How is this an attack on Cheney's daughter, unless you think homosexuality is something to be ashamed of?

 

[amadeus]

You'd be hard-pressed to find "shame" in the Kerry home dictionary. Senator Kerry and Senator Edwards' attempts to exploit the Vice President's daugther are shameful.

If one of Kerry's daughters had an abortion and Bush brought it up during the debate? Imagine the feces hitting the fan on that one. Kerry shouldn't apologize, because he didn't insult Ms. Cheney, but he should stop using her as a campaign issue.

Shame on you, Mr. Kerry!

 

[amadeus]

How is this an attack on Cheney's daughter, unless you think homosexuality is something to be ashamed of?

It's not specifically an attack, it's exploiting a "bad" (subjective term) situation for the Cheney family. There are many, many other gays and lesbians that I'm certain Mr. Kerry knows of, could speak about, and remain dignified. But he chose not to.

 

[bigmeat]

i hate all this slander on both sides, what next, are they gonna call each othr doodoo heads

 

[stratego]

I actually agree that when Kerry mentioned that on the debate, it seemed more like a political statment than actual appreciation to Mary Cheney. To me, the statement stood out as "If homosexuality is an issue to you in this debate, Cheney's got a gay daaaughter."

 

[Milan's Warrior]

I think Kerry did the right thing. He pointed out Bush and Cheney could have gotten the answer (to the question "is being gay natural?") right in their home, but they refused to ask.
I think this all quote is about Bush inability to ask and/or to listen to what is answered rather than about Mary Cheney

 

[Colonel]

Got to love these right wing bs bashing. They arent even that good bashing,

 

[Evie]

Way I see it, the only way this can be construed as an "attack" is if you actually believe homosexuality is wrong.

So either the Cheney are trying to make a mountain out of an (inexistant) molehill for political gains, or else they are showing their homophob colors.

 

[De Lorimier]

Ditto to what Milan's Warrior said.
When Bush is ask if homosexuality is a choice, he answers like an idiot ("I don't know"). That, to me, is a lot more scarier than Kerry mentionning Cheney's daughter to put a human face, mentionned in the vice-presidential debate I might had, on the homosexuality issue.

I can't wait for this campaign to end and for the election to be over with so we can get back to good old OT topics like pie and shoe size!

 

[stratego]

Kerry could've easily say that he believed it wasn't a choice without having to mention Cheney's daughter.

 

[De Lorimier]

Yes, but republicans are not fooling me when they play the offended virgins (can french expression be translated into english? ) since we know they are the kings of dirty politics. Kerry could have used another name or another way to express himself, but I just don't buy into the whole politicaly aimed whining by his opponents.

 

[Milan's Warrior]

Kerry could've easily say that he believed it wasn't a choice without having to mention Cheney's daughter.

That is true, but that is not what Kerry was saying. I think he was saying that Bush's "I don't know" shows that he did not make the minimal effort to find out from a source (presumably) close to Bush, that is Mary Cheany.

Basically I think Kerry was saying that Bush was playing dumb, but that Bush's playing dumb was not in good-faith because he had in-house expertise (Mary Cheany) whom he chose to ignore

 

[Syterion]

It wasn't an attack, but I don't know why he felt as if he had to say it. And in the Vice Presidential debate, did Cheney bring up his daughter first?

 

[stratego]

That is true, but that is not what Kerry was saying. I think he was saying that Bush's "I don't know" shows that he did not make the minimal effort to find out from a source (presumably) close to Bush, that is Mary Cheany.

Basically I think Kerry was saying that Bush was playing dumb, but that Bush's playing dumb was not in good-faith because he had in-house expertise (Mary Cheany) whom he chose to ignore

I agree that his answer addressed the issue a lot better than Bush did. But as an undecided voter [Not between Kerry and Bush, but between Kerry and Aquaman], I didn't get the sense that Kerry mentioned Mary Cheney in a sincere effort to say his appreciation towards her, but rather it was more politics than anything else.

 

[Moss]

Kerry while I don't think attacked Ms. Cheney, he should have been a little more sensitive and knowing about what would happened if he brought up her name and situation.

It's Dick Cheney's daughter, if he wants to bring it up, that's fine, but I think it is in bad taste to bring up the daughter of an opponent who isn't even the person you are debating. Plus, I think that the Cheney's may have been insulted by Kerry's choice of words...he said something to the effect that it wasn't a choice or not to be gay. Maybe the Cheney's or her daughter do think it is her choice, or at least it was her choice to make it public. So while yes, it could be natural from birth, Cheney's daughter may also think it is a choice of hers as well, thus disagreeing with Kerry.

 

[Elgalad]

Ditto to what Milan's Warrior said.
When Bush is ask if homosexuality is a choice, he answers like an idiot ("I don't know"). That, to me, is a lot more scarier than Kerry mentionning Cheney's daughter to put a human face, mentionned in the vice-presidential debate I might had, on the homosexuality issue.

I can't wait for this campaign to end and for the election to be over with so we can get back to good old OT topics like pie and shoe size!

Negative. President Bush answered the question honestly in the same manner that I would have. I also do not know if it is a choice or not, since I am not a homosexual.

You know, Bob, I don't know. I just don't know. I do know that we have a choice to make in America, and that is to treat people with tolerance and respect and dignity. It's important that we do that. I also know in a free society people -- consenting adults can live they way they want to live, and that's to be honored.

But as we respect someone's rights and we, you know, profess tolerance, we shouldn't change -- or have to change our basic views on the sanctity of marriage. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I think it's very important that we protect marriage as an institution between a man and a woman.

I proposed a constitutional amendment. The reason I did so was because I was worried that activist judges are actually defining the definition of marriage. And the surest way to protect marriage between a man and a woman is to amend the Constitution. It has also the benefit of allowing our citizens to participate in the process. After all, when you amend the Constitution, state legislatures must participate in the ratification of the Constitution. I'm deeply concerned that judges are making those decisions and not the citizenry of the United States.

You know, Congress passed a law called DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act. My opponent was against it. It basically protected states from the action -- action of one state to another. It also defined marriage as between a man and a woman. But I'm concerned that that will get overturned, and if it gets overturned, then we'll end up with marriage being defined by courts. And I don't think that's in our nation's interest.

The President made clear that he could not honestly answer the question "Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?" How Could anyone who is not a homesexual address that honestly? Why is this question so important anyway?

He then went on to state clearly that the choice that Truly matters regarding this question is the choice we all have to treat homosexuals with Tolerance, Dignity, and Respect. On this I could not possibly agree more. Whether you believe Homesexuality is voluntary or not, the fact remains that Homosexuals are God's children (as Sen. Kerry himself pointed out) and our brothers and sisters, deserving our love and compassion, Not hatred and exclusion.

The President was also able to clarify another very important point: The Judiciary was never intended by the Constitution to be used as a legislative platform, overriding the laws created by Congress or the various State Legislatures. More and more, Judges have been using their benches unlawfully to perform acts of legal activism. No matter the issue, this practice Must stop.

The topic of gay marriage is being hotly debated right now in America. To proponents, it is a question of Constitutionally guaranteed equal protection. To opponents it is a direct assault on a religious institution: A Marriage between one man and one woman. Arguments that proponents use are that it is Not a religious question since there are certain rights and privileges that married couples possess that domestic partnerships traditionally do not. Yet it seems clear that whenever these same protections (tax status, death benefits, custody of children) are offered to homosexual couples without the title of 'marriage', they refuse them, holding out instead for full recognization of status as a "Married couple".

I am strongly opposed to gay marriage. I am strongly in favor of extending the legal protections of marriage to domestic partnerships. What baffles me in all of this is how traditional supporters of the separation of church and state can discard that concept in toto when it comes to legitimizing a homosexual union as a marriage. The State has no business making laws that affect the Church. Separation of Church and State works both ways, Liberals. You rush to point out that Government must be free of Religious influence. But do not forget that Government has No jurisdiction whatsoever in matters of faith.

Article I of the Constitution reads:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


-Elgalad

 

[BasketCase]

Way I see it, the only way this can be construed as an "attack" is if you actually believe homosexuality is wrong.

So either the Cheney are trying to make a mountain out of an (inexistant) molehill for political gains, or else they are showing their homophob colors.

Why is it always "homophobe"? Either you're pro-gay or a homophobe???

I'm neither of the above. I don't fear gays. I dislike their behavior.