King of the hill - open challange for all playlevels
- Thread starter Snaaty
- Start date
Matthew5117
Emperor
Okay, so the save isn't working for me (same problem as Azi... don't know the rest of the name 
but its on the front page), but I got some strategies that other people could use:
but its on the front page), but I got some strategies that other people could use:Spoiler :
Ugh 1610AD. My Jungle Hill fell at the same time Stalin came with a bunch of inferior troops. I can deal with one but not both and win. So at this point it is just seeing how long I can survive. I am sure I can hang out for a long time... but prefer to start over and this time do not play late at night and make silly errors when tired.
Please with a lot of what I accomplished will study others post a wee bit more then attack the puzzle again!
Please with a lot of what I accomplished will study others post a wee bit more then attack the puzzle again!
My situation is a little different from yours, my capital has produced all military units before cannon is available. So first 4 settled in capital, the 5th attached to a prat who is lucky enough to survive when rifleman is ready and 6th attach to a char to make a super medic unit.
By choosing MC, you have hammer superiority while back at tech. I got CS in 75BC, so leading you by ~15 turns. Beside the huge beaker lead, even on hammer, 15 turns of early burea = 30 turns of early forge. So I think the answer is clear.
Dirk1302
Deity
Yes but i don't have jungle on the southern hill, don't forget that this makes a whole lotta difference. I needed only 4 turns to research col, the other 11 turns could well be due to delaying GS because of the pressing need to get lots of troops out. Look at USun's game who is also holding the southern choke on 3 jungles. He had no wonders, and he's researching Col 500 AD. He states in his post that he had to go all out on praets, probably also researching feud before COL just to hold the south. 1 jungle hill >>> 3 jungle tiles. My point is you can't even remotely compare our games due to this hill.
ABigCivFan
Emperor
1610AD Spoiler
Spoiler :
Oops, sorry, I should only count the turns need for CoL.
So let's start in the same position and do some math. I resume teching around 400BC and at that time you would need more than 6 turns for CoL even with academy. Let's set 75BC as the checking point with 6 cities. I assume you capital has Forge for ~40 turns then and your pig city ~30 turns, your other 4 cities ~15 turns. So you get 40*24*0.25 + 30*16*0.25 + 4*15*4*0.25 = 240+120+60=420 extra Hammers.With CoL, I guess at average all my 6 cities can get courthouses for ~30 turns. So the saving and EPs I can get from them is 30*6*2=360g + 30*6*2=360 EP. plus 6*24*0.5=72 Hammers + beakers (that's make them to compensate the beaker difference between CoL and Forge) by early CS.
So the comparison between MC and CoL is 350 Hammers vs 360g + 360EPs (1EP>1beaker in this game).
You know that 1g=1hammer once the currency is in and you need to build cash for full research.
So the final answer is still clear just based on above calculation.
There's more
1. the effect of couthouse increases with more cities and I actually have 8 cities ~AD.
2. getting CoL prevent AIs from getting CoL early and this will slow down their tech pace.
3. you will have one more happiness and 10% research by having one more religion.
Regarding the jungle hill, I don't know why you think that's that important for your development. It's all about numbers needed for defense. You and USun both don't have it, so why you can research CoL in early AD and he research it at ~500AD? It's all about strategy. USun went for an early rush plus he did not try to grab Oracle and this surely will drag his early development. In my game I also defend the 1st two wave attack without the help of jungle only by Axes/Spear, and you thought that is very difficult without early prats. I have more than 10 prats at ~AD, that is not much less than yours in the same stage and remember that I have to pay for unit supply all the time.
Believe it or not, I only load twice besides the regular time stop , the first one is after I found that barb starts with warrior and this affects my overall early strategy. I emphasized the barb issue in my guide and 500BC report. I played to early AD without any reload. The 2nd one is around 700AD because I got a very bad roll in a battle so I reload a nearest autosave.
@Duckweed,
Why did you go for a chariot supermedic? It's pretty easy to get WIIIM1 with a praet, and it doesn't cost you a GG. If you want to waste one, why not go for the real supermedic WIIIMIII instead?
@all
I'm at 1700 and have 5 blitz SoLs and 1 blitz frigate ready for upgrade, but I'm teching pretty slowly and nowhere near combustion. I set up an ice city for Stalin, grew it to pop2, then a few turns after he took it and I went to rob the joint, I realized I had forgotten to spread the religion! D'oh! So I took it back, spread confu and now it's in his hands again. None of the AIs have steel yet, for they're going up the sci meth line quite nicely. I will get machine guns before they get infantry; the only problem will be if they go for artillery before I have a viable counter. Don't want to face them with rifles, and machine guns are useless.
My jungle hill has held nicely. Recently my culture spread past it so I can now counterattack the AI stacks and still get the great wall bonus. It's so tempting to drop the slider and upgrade everything, but I can't afford the turns wasted right now. I haven't been taking screenshots, but I will post my finish date when I'm done. I don't think I can play this game again for awhile ... great map though!
I noticed a small island just off the coast of Moscow that Stalin has failed to colonize. Has anyone thought about setting up a fortress there instead? Airship support would be nice, although you couldn't really count on cultural defenses for long. Late game, would give the navy air support before carriers.
Why did you go for a chariot supermedic? It's pretty easy to get WIIIM1 with a praet, and it doesn't cost you a GG. If you want to waste one, why not go for the real supermedic WIIIMIII instead?
@all
I'm at 1700 and have 5 blitz SoLs and 1 blitz frigate ready for upgrade, but I'm teching pretty slowly and nowhere near combustion. I set up an ice city for Stalin, grew it to pop2, then a few turns after he took it and I went to rob the joint, I realized I had forgotten to spread the religion! D'oh! So I took it back, spread confu and now it's in his hands again. None of the AIs have steel yet, for they're going up the sci meth line quite nicely. I will get machine guns before they get infantry; the only problem will be if they go for artillery before I have a viable counter. Don't want to face them with rifles, and machine guns are useless.
My jungle hill has held nicely. Recently my culture spread past it so I can now counterattack the AI stacks and still get the great wall bonus. It's so tempting to drop the slider and upgrade everything, but I can't afford the turns wasted right now. I haven't been taking screenshots, but I will post my finish date when I'm done. I don't think I can play this game again for awhile ... great map though!
I noticed a small island just off the coast of Moscow that Stalin has failed to colonize. Has anyone thought about setting up a fortress there instead? Airship support would be nice, although you couldn't really count on cultural defenses for long. Late game, would give the navy air support before carriers.
I have lost the space race with ONE TURN
In 1935..
It was already maximized and i dont think i can gain one more turn unless i go back a lot :/
It was very intense in the end, i think i was about to die in two turns anyway
Edit: just realized that i can chop trees to build the spaceship. This can save me one turn possibly, but i'm not sure it's enough: it said two turns to victory and after finishing the turn it announced Stalin as winner. If it would have been only 1 turn to victory who would had won then?
My other idea is to try to use a spy to force civic change, hopefully he would switch back with an anarchy..
In 1935..
It was already maximized and i dont think i can gain one more turn unless i go back a lot :/
It was very intense in the end, i think i was about to die in two turns anyway
Edit: just realized that i can chop trees to build the spaceship. This can save me one turn possibly, but i'm not sure it's enough: it said two turns to victory and after finishing the turn it announced Stalin as winner. If it would have been only 1 turn to victory who would had won then?
My other idea is to try to use a spy to force civic change, hopefully he would switch back with an anarchy..
PaulisKhan
Physicist
-edit-Yeah sabotage seems like the best option. If you knew what city it was bing built in you could also revolt that city for a couple of turns to delay production.
In my own experience the AI tend not to switch into civic anarchy if you swap them out.
I'm confident that with chops in play he'll be able to shave two turns off the component build.
In my own experience the AI tend not to switch into civic anarchy if you swap them out.
I'm confident that with chops in play he'll be able to shave two turns off the component build.
These are not really working. I don't have a spy in their land just in a city they took from me. I know that forcing them to a civic don't cause anarchy, but when they switch back it should..
Btw i have only used this once in the game, but it's ridiculously powerfull. For few hundred spying points i will put him into slavery and changing his religion to mine... I hope it will hurt him a bit
Btw i have only used this once in the game, but it's ridiculously powerfull. For few hundred spying points i will put him into slavery and changing his religion to mine... I hope it will hurt him a bit
Matthew5117
Emperor
I think sabotaging a nearly finished space ship piece that requires tons of hammers is extremely expensive to sabotage.
Mzprox - Grats at what appears to be the best try yet.
I find this scenario great fun... But my play level is not quite up to the task.
In my best try, Stalin was significantly backward but I messed up in the south and allowed a break through - That was my best chance at a win.
Last try I really improved all aspects of my play was very happy... sadly it was Stalin's fastest tech tree and Khan captured the spy city not Ragnar and Khan's tech level was terrible.
I had four cities with decent culture 5-7k+ (4 GA saved) and just starting to press the culture but 100's of turns away, I am less certain about culture working.
Oh well maybe again in a few days.
I find this scenario great fun... But my play level is not quite up to the task.
In my best try, Stalin was significantly backward but I messed up in the south and allowed a break through - That was my best chance at a win.
Last try I really improved all aspects of my play was very happy... sadly it was Stalin's fastest tech tree and Khan captured the spy city not Ragnar and Khan's tech level was terrible.
I had four cities with decent culture 5-7k+ (4 GA saved) and just starting to press the culture but 100's of turns away, I am less certain about culture working.
Oh well maybe again in a few days.
I've played this game whole weekend . I'll write a summary about my last try below (spoiler warning)
This was my 3rd try, in the first i have survived till 1800 with 3-4 reload, in the second i got to 1903 when Stalin won a space race- around 25 reload points, the totall reloads more. In this last try i have lost the space race by 1-2 turns. I have launched my space ship 8 turns before Stalin, but with only one thruster and engine. I will try to tweak a bit so maybe i can win after all. Reloads: 150+ reload points. This is a cheesy play against a monster (in the begining i hadnt reload much, later it was essential, but the game didnt get less exciting at all)
I have continued the save point i have posted earlier. (1360 BC i had the GW, the Pyramid adn Hinduism). It's possible that the pyramids not worth it, i just like it too much (dependent on it? ).
A lucky event in the begining was that a barbarian city was founded south on a hill, and Shaka's first stack died in their capture attempt. I have defended that city from razing and eventually captured it.
First i have teched to literature (builded the GL) then civil service then got alphabet so i could start spying. all my points was put on the khan ( i had my first greatspy settled). I expected a wandering keshik to take a city close to my capitol. When it happened i had stolen 5-7 techs from him (incl: feudalism, machinery, engineering) unfortunately he was the most backward of all.. so later i put my spying on Ragnar but i didnt make effort to let him take a city, i visited him at home. (I saw a report here how backwards the civs were at 1400s,. In my game Ragnar already had rifling at that time-too bad for him that i had machinegunners 
)
The blocking city in the south worked well, my tech rate was good, spying was at 0% except for a few turns. Around 1000 I could build the Oxford in my capital. My gp farm (with NE) was the north east city, in my capital i had the HE besides Oxford. I have settled every GG and other great person there. (The settled GGs gave very good research)
My goal was railroad (and the combustion) to get the upper hand. I was able to grab railroad with liberalism, but this was the source of some big reloads: Ragnar started researching liberalism in 1200.. this was the point when i have noticed that if i reload he might start researching something else.. so i have kept him from researching it till 1300s when i finally could choose railroad for it.
I have posted a few screenshots before from around 1500.: I had my first blitz destroyer, my cities were secured with machineguns, connected with railroad, i had a big techlead and a nice economy. I have choked every mayor Russian city ( and the Zulu and Viking capitals too). allowed Stalin to capture a trap city 3 tiles from my capital, specially builded just for him. I thought it's enough if i defend myself, they cant take my space victory form me...
I was very wrong..
Maybe i should have invaded Russia, raze some cities.. should have halt reseach and concentrate on spying and money to raise a big army. instead i did the opposite: i have built research (and wealth to fuel 100% research). So I was quite weak but my teching was fast. ( i have even destroyed that russian city after some time, because i had nothing to steal an the bombers from it gave me headache)
In 1730 i have lost my first destroyer to a russian one.. that was the turning point. I couldnt afford losing ships so i had to give up the blockade and retreat to defend. I tried to go back with huge fleets but i couldnt stay too long: Stalin used airships to damage my ships then i had to flee..
So i defended my coast, battleships gave me some time. Around 1850 i got swarmed with destroyers, transports and russian battleships. i had to give up the defense too and let them land... they came at both sides, i have already had 2 fronts in the south so i had to relocate my army quite often.
Stalin's research really boomed. When i get to fusion i still had a huge lead (4-5 techs with 10k+ cost), but at this point Stalin could research everything in max 2-3 turns, and i suspect He could build everything in 1 turn.. So i launched my ship in 1920, but a few turns later he finished his too. i had one engine and one thruster.. couldnt afford more, i hadnt even waited the result i knew his gets there faster so I have reloaded and this time i have halted my research after fusion and stolen the last two techs which were needed for the space ship (genetics, medicine). i did some important reloads here to to make sure Stalin research these techs.
This time i was able to launch my ship 8 turns before Stalin did, still it was not enough. (btw at this time i couldnt defend my empire any longer, i had to pull back to my capitol and it was about to lost in a few turns. It said 2 turns to victory when after finishing announced Stalin as winner. I can save one turn with chopping down some trees, i will launch a huge spy attack on Stalin to hopefully slow him down.. i will write how it went this evening-I'm not too optimistic...
. I'll write a summary about my last try below (spoiler warning)This was my 3rd try, in the first i have survived till 1800 with 3-4 reload, in the second i got to 1903 when Stalin won a space race- around 25 reload points, the totall reloads more. In this last try i have lost the space race by 1-2 turns. I have launched my space ship 8 turns before Stalin, but with only one thruster and engine. I will try to tweak a bit so maybe i can win after all. Reloads: 150+ reload points
. This is a cheesy play against a monster (in the begining i hadnt reload much, later it was essential, but the game didnt get less exciting at all)I have continued the save point i have posted earlier. (1360 BC i had the GW, the Pyramid adn Hinduism). It's possible that the pyramids not worth it, i just like it too much (dependent on it?
). A lucky event in the begining was that a barbarian city was founded south on a hill, and Shaka's first stack died in their capture attempt. I have defended that city from razing and eventually captured it.
First i have teched to literature (builded the GL) then civil service then got alphabet so i could start spying. all my points was put on the khan ( i had my first greatspy settled). I expected a wandering keshik to take a city close to my capitol
. When it happened i had stolen 5-7 techs from him (incl: feudalism, machinery, engineering) unfortunately he was the most backward of all.. so later i put my spying on Ragnar but i didnt make effort to let him take a city, i visited him at home. (I saw a report here how backwards the civs were at 1400s,. In my game Ragnar already had rifling at that time-too bad for him that i had machinegunners )The blocking city in the south worked well, my tech rate was good, spying was at 0% except for a few turns. Around 1000 I could build the Oxford in my capital. My gp farm (with NE) was the north east city, in my capital i had the HE besides Oxford. I have settled every GG and other great person there. (The settled GGs gave very good research)
My goal was railroad (and the combustion) to get the upper hand. I was able to grab railroad with liberalism, but this was the source of some big reloads: Ragnar started researching liberalism in 1200.. this was the point when i have noticed that if i reload he might start researching something else.. so i have kept him from researching it till 1300s when i finally could choose railroad for it
. I have posted a few screenshots before from around 1500.: I had my first blitz destroyer, my cities were secured with machineguns, connected with railroad, i had a big techlead and a nice economy. I have choked every mayor Russian city ( and the Zulu and Viking capitals too). allowed Stalin to capture a trap city 3 tiles from my capital, specially builded just for him. I thought it's enough if i defend myself, they cant take my space victory form me...
I was very wrong..
Maybe i should have invaded Russia, raze some cities.. should have halt reseach and concentrate on spying and money to raise a big army. instead i did the opposite: i have built research (and wealth to fuel 100% research). So I was quite weak but my teching was fast. ( i have even destroyed that russian city after some time, because i had nothing to steal an the bombers from it gave me headache)
In 1730 i have lost my first destroyer to a russian one.. that was the turning point. I couldnt afford losing ships so i had to give up the blockade and retreat to defend. I tried to go back with huge fleets but i couldnt stay too long: Stalin used airships to damage my ships then i had to flee..
So i defended my coast, battleships gave me some time. Around 1850 i got swarmed with destroyers, transports and russian battleships. i had to give up the defense too and let them land... they came at both sides, i have already had 2 fronts in the south so i had to relocate my army quite often.
Stalin's research really boomed. When i get to fusion i still had a huge lead (4-5 techs with 10k+ cost), but at this point Stalin could research everything in max 2-3 turns, and i suspect He could build everything in 1 turn.. So i launched my ship in 1920, but a few turns later he finished his too. i had one engine and one thruster.. couldnt afford more, i hadnt even waited the result i knew his gets there faster so I have reloaded and this time i have halted my research after fusion and stolen the last two techs which were needed for the space ship (genetics, medicine). i did some important reloads here to to make sure Stalin research these techs.
This time i was able to launch my ship 8 turns before Stalin did, still it was not enough. (btw at this time i couldnt defend my empire any longer, i had to pull back to my capitol and it was about to lost in a few turns. It said 2 turns to victory when after finishing announced Stalin as winner. I can save one turn with chopping down some trees, i will launch a huge spy attack on Stalin to hopefully slow him down.. i will write how it went this evening
-I'm not too optimistic...Dirk1302
Deity
Hmm looks good mzprox, I think there must be a way if you reload somewhat further back. I'm not sure what to do with this one. I can play from my 0025 AD save, i would normally be happy to play from that position, it's a reasonably good one. Here however it won't be nearly good enough to win.
-I don't have the jungle hill in the south.
-I didn't start with GW, there's no way i can get 5-7 techs including Feudalism,machinery,engineering researched very quickly not even with CS it'll 20 + turns , i'll need that turns to get thoroughly ready for Stalin i feel. Seems that this GW start is mandatory to do really well.
So maybe i'll restart using Halt's sequence, gives me a good opportunity to see the power of early spy economics (i don't have too much experience with early spy mechanics). I will try Duckweed's suggestion of taking Col or maybe Snaaty's taking alpha instead of MC.
Or i'll just play out my save, see where it'll end.
Or i just call it a day since i fear it might become very tedious especially when i'll meet Stalin.
-I don't have the jungle hill in the south.
-I didn't start with GW, there's no way i can get 5-7 techs including Feudalism,machinery,engineering researched very quickly not even with CS it'll 20 + turns , i'll need that turns to get thoroughly ready for Stalin i feel. Seems that this GW start is mandatory to do really well.
So maybe i'll restart using Halt's sequence, gives me a good opportunity to see the power of early spy economics (i don't have too much experience with early spy mechanics). I will try Duckweed's suggestion of taking Col or maybe Snaaty's taking alpha instead of MC.
Or i'll just play out my save, see where it'll end.
Or i just call it a day since i fear it might become very tedious especially when i'll meet Stalin
.
