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King of the World #19: Qin Shi Huang

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Neal, Sep 16, 2011.

  1. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    The thing is, though, that we need those smily faces. In addition to our laughably small happy cap, we're about to go full-throttle into a war with an empire that should be pretty decent-sized and will likely have a few big empires waiting for us on the other side, which means WW might start to become a concern.

    My argument for taking Calendar over Monarchy is the fact that, if we want HR to solve the happy problem, we're going to have to build garrisons. These garrisons will be hammers spent on troops that won't be going to the front lines. It's not a bad idea down the road, but since we're about to engage in our first real war here, we're going to want a strong build-up of forces, and we're going to want units to replace them. Calendar gets us at least +3 :) (Dye, Spices, and Sugar all add :) IIRC, and we have all three), and with that online plus Silver we'll have a very nice boost in smilies without having to devote any hammers to getting them (assuming we have a nice pool of Workers and Asoka is nice enough to build us more).

    That said, Construction+Monarchy will likely be useful in this round, especially since (I believe) Construction's on the way to Engineering, which could be huge in this game (cheap Castles + Trebs = very yes). I just disagree with the idea that Calendar is a diversion from our war machine; it doesn't unlock any tech, but taking it solves the happiness problem without having to divert hammers away from war.
     
  2. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    You forgot Incense and Silk, which makes 5 happiness resources, which should be enough to get an economy and decent-sized cities.
     
  3. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    Calendar and AH are the obvious tech choices here; I think everyone is agreed on that. The only real question is which order to go in. I incline to Calendar first - most cities are already at happy cap, so boosting food is not as useful as it would be otherwise. But after the plantation resources go online, then having pastures to help grow will be useful.

    I suppose you could go the other way - AH first, and let your cities collect unhappy citizens while you wait for plantation resources to make them suddenly happy again. It might even be better, but my best guess is that it's not.
     
  4. vanatteveldt

    vanatteveldt Emperor

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    AH is 3.5 times as cheap as calendar, so I think AH - Cal is better. these extra citizens can wait for calendar stuff or be whipped into workers/settlers. Also, pastures are a lot cheaper than calendar resources and I don't think neal has a lot of workers around, so start pasturing while building some more workers and then have them ready and roading/chopping done by the time cal comes online...
     
  5. WelshGandalf

    WelshGandalf King

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    Exactly. You may not need the food, but getting them will give your workers something useful to do, and quickly.
     
  6. Jaaboo

    Jaaboo Prince

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    Wow, holy crap, Neal's back!! Glad to see another KotW game!
     
  7. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    WoW is one of the two games he was playing over the last year and a half I believe. :)

    Maybe he should download a World of Warcraft Scenario and play that. It should be a pretty good stress reliever. :badcomp:

    What was the other game reference? I thought one of the other Civfanatics caught it but I am not sure.
     
  8. Neal

    Neal King of the World

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    Soul Caliber. "Welcome back to the stage of history," and all that. And my absence was more a matter of moving, getting engaged, and starting a new job than anything as simple as other video games. Though other video games did play a part :)

    Oh, and I just finished the next round. As is customary, I'll give a sneak peek at the save before going to bed. I'll write it up tomorrow.
     
  9. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    ^^Congratulations on the getting engaged part!

    :band:
     
  10. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    Bah. Real life. Waste of time.
     
  11. Jaaboo

    Jaaboo Prince

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    Congratulations!
     
  12. Neal

    Neal King of the World

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    The time for buildup was complete. The economy was grinding to a halt under the heavy burden of maintenance costs. Soldiers collected their pay, but spent their time gambling it away in their Barracks. The unclaimed wilds teemed with savage barbarians, whose incursions were a constant thorn in the Qin Shi Huang's side. The Great Lighthouse and Colossus were very pretty, no doubt, and were fine additions to the empire, but they alone were not the keys to victory. No, China was a fine and defensible country, but "fine and defensible" are only good enough for Cultural or, ugh, Time Victories. It was time to flex our muscles.

    Our first move was to reduce the cultural center of Bombay to rubble:



    The laughter of the city's poets and scholars turned to terrified screams as the air filled with rapid-fire bolts of death. The pen may be mightier than the sword, but I'd like to see it stand up to a repeating crossbow.

    As Chittagong's citizens finally found themselves able to exert control over the city's fields (well, jungles), Chinese Settlers founded the island-fortress of Yakushima:



    A fine site for the Moai Statues, and a productive way to rope in southern Japan's Gold for some extra Happiness.

    Qin Shi Huang, despite his hardheaded opinions, finally saw the wisdom in his advisors' counsel, and relented. Animal Husbandry was researched in a few quick years and pens were put up to herd the Sheep, Pigs, Cows, and even Horses that populated vast China. The delay in pacifying his subjects with gifts of Incense, Silks, and Sugar made the emperor grumble a bit, but it was ultimately inconsequential. As Chinese sages finally got around to learning how to harness these abundant resources, Settlers tamed the wild Phillipines:



    Hmm... Now that I look at it, settling 1SW, on the Bananas, might have been a better long-term play. Could have gotten a few more Cottages in there. Oh, well. What's done is done. Manila will make a fine Commerce city, even in its current position.

    The Barbarian outpost of Ghuzz was crushed in the year 250, pacifying Malaysia:



    The city was allowed to stand under the new name Bangkok. I feel that its placement is a little on the inefficient side, but the Malay Peninsula is notoriously difficult to dotmap. And it's good enough to warrant saving a Settler, I think.

    By the 5th century, the secrets of the Calendar were ours. Our maps were resized to show the enormity of the Earth, Plantations cropped up from Vietnam to Mongolia, and Beijing began work on the Mausoleum of Maussolos. With the problem of unproductive citizens solved, it was time to reduce inefficiency. Confucianism was off the board, founded in a distant land, but Code of Laws still made a ton of sense. For the moment, the economy was kept afloat on a wave of Barbarian gold:



    But all was not all agriculture and conquest. No, with Tokugawa and Genghis Khan both dead, China was able to focus the hostilities on a single front running from Mongolia around Tibet to eastern India. The cities behind that line, like Hong Kong, Kyoto, and Beijing, were allowed to flourish in this hostile world.

    This flourishing was recognized in 415 A.D.:



    I'm sure this is mostly due to raw size of empire, but it's always nice to get the gold star :)

    By 460, Asoka's Iron Mines were pillaged, and Qin's armies stood at the gates of Delhi:





    The siege was short and quick, and it resulted in our adding yet another gem to our crown of Wonders. Had I but known this would be ours, I wouldn't have wasted so many Hammers on Monuments, especially in Yakushima, but what's done is done. Our completed Monuments will still stand after Stonehenge goes obsolete.

    Yes, the game was definitely beginning to turn. Some might even go so far as to claim that it was won at this stage, that China was too big to fail. But such curmudgeons fail to appreciate the journey, the gentle pitter-pat of soldiers' feet, the soothing warmth of burning empires, the lullaby of world leaders' pleas for clemency. And, of course, Random Events such as these:



    Yakushima definitely has some potential.

    With Code of Laws in our hands, Courthouses began to be built in all of our greatest cities. Our next project was Construction, both for Catapults (Cho-Ko's are great, but they can't strip City Defense) and because the fords that crisscross China are more trouble than they're worth. By 580 B.C., Beijing's latest project was complete, and was christened by none other than St. Patrick himself, who had been waiting around the city for just such an occasion:





    The Golden Age boost to our economy and productivity was huge. And by getting Courthouses built that much more quickly, its effects should be prolonged beyond the Age itself.

    The Barbarian outpost of Vandal was taken that year:



    It was, perhaps unwisely, kept, and renamed Novosibirsk. It will be fed by Sheep, though, and bring valuable Furs into our great cities, and it should provide a new focus for hostilities, freeing up Karakorum to grow into productivity.

    Five years later, Pataliputra was burned to the ground, confining Asoka to the very tip of his subcontinent:



    I think I'm going to found a new city atop those Elephants to the east. Rope in the resources, and connect Delhi to Chittagong. Thoughts?

    By 685, Asoka's last bolthole was overwhelmed, and the original 18 were whittled down to 14:



    The city was kept, obviously. Not that it held anything special.

    So there we have it. Our nearest neighbors are now Persia and Russia. We're on a roll, and we need to keep it going. Towards that end, I'm leaning toward Civil Service, in order to add Macemen to our forces, but I'm willing to be shouted down:



    Keep in mind that those research times will be a little longer than they appear, owing to the fact that our Golden Age won't last forever.So what're the thoughts? Expand south into Australia, or north into Siberia? Go northwest through Russia, or southwest through Cyrus? Or just stay put, reinforce our borders, and launch an attack with Macemen and Trebuchets? Going Engineering for Trebs may make sense, given our Unique Unit and the fact that we don't have any Catapults online yet. Anyway, lots of questions. I'll let the discussions begin.

    But first, our map:

     
  13. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    You will want engineering soon as the land routes are notoriously long to Europe. Also, you should make another off-shore city so that you get the full benefit of the GLH (I'm assuming you have currency so your cities have 4 trade routes each).
     
  14. Archredbeard

    Archredbeard Warlord

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    Nice rolling, next tech definately should be Currency, make the money a bygone issue, then Civ serv etc
     
  15. psychodation

    psychodation Chieftain

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    long-time lurker, that i am, back to civ for good and willing to learn, i would also like to add my 50 cent:

    given that you´re still running science at 50%, i would strongly lean towards philosophy, if it is still available. i always like to "own" a religion, even if you just had a great prophet. with monasteries you are able to boost your science.
    my second choice if phil gone would be currency.

    at 50% i think its time to take a break, let cities grow and prosper for a few rounds so as not to fall under 50% science, given that you dont run many specialists as far as i can see.

    plenty of room to strengthen the empire, before further civs are to be taken out. optmize india etc. i would say.

    i will put a questionmark here, given that i am not much of a warmonger, so many of you will disagree i guess, so here t is: "?"
     
  16. sveusb

    sveusb Chieftain

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    The research choices are: currency for the economy, horseback riding for elephants, civil service for maces, alphabet for spies
     
  17. psychodation

    psychodation Chieftain

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    i think elephants are far to slow given the size of the empire and the fact that macemen are in reach.
     
  18. Coffee Mug

    Coffee Mug Chieftain

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    Currency would be very helpful.

    I played a shadow of this over the weekend, and my conclusion was that the Persia/India border is easier to defend than the Sinai and Anatolia. After conquering the Middle East, I was really forced to take out Russia in a two-front war, going north past the Black Sea and west from Siberia. And then you're right next to Europe with a large army, etc.

    So basically, my recommendation is to consolidate your current position until the economy is stable and your military is strong enough to keep marching all the way to the Atlantic. The flood plains in the Middle East aren't all that useful at this point in the game; let someone else grow the cottages for you, while you build the Forbidden Palace in India and keep the techs rolling in.
     
  19. Coffee Mug

    Coffee Mug Chieftain

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    Also, it looks like there's room for a powerhouse production city in central China. (And I'd settle the silver in northern Japan, both for the resource and to max your trade routes.)
     
  20. Gwynnja

    Gwynnja Deity

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    +1 for currency. Then let the war machine head westwards along the southern coast. With TGL every coastal city's trade routes will pay for itself.
     

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