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King of the World #19: Qin Shi Huang

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Neal, Sep 16, 2011.

  1. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Location:
    In Dystopia
    Obvious chokepoints:
    The Indus/Mountain passes at the Indo-Persian border.
    Suez and Constantinople.
    I would expand until I get those in hands, and then defend while building up an army. Research currency and build up your cities a bit - and build some Cho-Ko-Nus and cats. You can always build maces later on.
     
  2. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    Fantastic round! Accomplished exactly what you wanted to do with Asoka. At this point, the game is won, so roll with it however you want.

    Here's my two cents:

    You've got a lot of good techs on the table and we'd likely be due for a trading montage in any other game. Frankly, I think going whole hog with the military has paid off nicely, so I'd say go Engineering and Civil Service (though not necessarily in that order) to bring medieval-era force to bear.

    Steamrolling Cyrus will put you up to Saladin (who shouldn't be a problem) and your main rival Hattie. It'll also allow you to push into the more defensible Middle East instead of the wide open Russia. Stomp through Cyrus and Sal as best you can; I don't think complete subjugation of Cyrus will be necessary if you can confine him to the crappy deserts of Kazakhstan and finish him off later at your leisure. Then pay Hattie a visit and capture some great land and perhaps a wonder or two, then see what Mansa's bringing to bear. Capturing and holding Africa shouldn't be too hard since the AI tends to avoid using boats and the Suez is a nice and easily defensible choke point.

    Keep up with the military techs for now, but give a look to Currency at some point--it won't take too long, and it dovetails nicely with the GL and your vast empire.
     
  3. GGracchus

    GGracchus Tribune of Rome

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    Currency first, then Engineering for the road movement and then CS.

    Edit: 900 posts!
     
  4. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    I don't know. Is this Marathon speed? Engineering is nice, but not as important.

    After Currency, I'd pick up CS. Honestly, I'd have saved a Golden Age for a CS switch.

    In AW, you won't ever meet the people on the New World. There's no point in getting astronomy, and the civs in the New World in AW will never get to astronomy before 1600 AD.
     
  5. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    Currency first, then CS for bureau.

    Economic development is much more important right now than military conquest. Your civilization is already so large, and you have so much room to expand (in Siberia, Australia, and SE Asia islands) that Engineering is not necessary.
     
  6. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    Bah! Economy! You guys are no fun. Building the economy takes time away from enveloping the world in the ever-growing Chinese cloud!

    :assimilate: THEM ALL INTO THE PURPLE-MAROONISH FOG. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.
     
  7. Bigv32

    Bigv32 Prince

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    If you went for currency first, that would help given the fact that your golden age will end. If we had more map information, then I would feel more comfortable lol. If the persian cities are close enough so you could take them quickly, you could just go for an all out war now. Just ride the money you get from conquests all the way to Turkey.

    I would also turn Kyto into a settler/galley pump to fill up the islands and maybe go for Australia.

    I also agree that a good city could be placed in central china. After the persians are taken out, I would actually consider moving the capital to either their capital or Dehli as you could place you forbidden palace in Europe and spread out the affects (Note I do not know if it would be better to place it in a coastal city though).

    Finally, Neal, I read most of this thread and don't feel bad about going away from Earth history and going for the navy. Actually, China did have the world's largest, most powerful navy unitl the british came around.
     
  8. SillyGoat

    SillyGoat Warlord

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    Location:
    In the cheap seats.
    Definitely Currency (plus another offshore city) first.

    Then CS for B-racy and Maces. Engineering after that (you might actually get some use out of Protective castles :lol: )

    Some more offshore cities towards Aussie land will help the economy as well.

    Then go bonk some heads. :hammer:
     
  9. Neal

    Neal King of the World

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    Okay. Just played a long, builderish round. Here's the save, I'll try to write it up tomorrow. We're now primed to conquer till there's no one left to kill, I think :)
     
  10. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    You know what amazes me about this? I can't load up the game properly for some reason (yes, the mod is installed), but I can get partial functionality on it--enough to see the techs you haven't researched yet.

    I'll spoiler this for those waiting to read it tomorrow, but it's not that spoiler-y:

    Spoiler :
    We've mastered Paper and Philosophy, we have a codified system of Currency, and we're on the verge of being able to create a national system of Education, but we still have not codified an Alphabet. :lol: How is this even a thing that's possible!? Are we communicating via a sophisticated system of origami cranes?
     
  11. vanatteveldt

    vanatteveldt Emperor

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    Spoiler :

    Well, if writing means communicating via written down symbols, then alphabet probably means a *phonetic* alphabet of some sort. So, it is totally historically accurate to not develop alphabet as Chinese!
     
  12. Pieman

    Pieman Prince

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    Heh, I just realised what the name of the last round was a reference to. Rather chilling really.
     
  13. Neal

    Neal King of the World

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    Hmph. Ended up sleeping in, and I've gotta be at work in an hour and a half. So I'm not gonna have time to write up the round today. Tomorrow, though! I have the day off, and nothing to do but write! :)
     
  14. Neal

    Neal King of the World

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    China was great, stretching from Japan to Pakistan, from Siberia to the Philippines. Petty Barbarian fiefdoms acted as a buffer against the temperamental Catherine, who was likely busier with conflicts on her western and southern borders, and Cyrus was stymied by the bottleneck formed by the Arabian Sea and Kashmiri mountains. He was unable to mount anything more than a head-on attack on Delhi, which was prepared for such an eventuality. The empire was now free to war at her leisure. More pressing, now, would be propping up our flagging economy, and the waning years of St. Patrick's Golden Age would be a fine time to codify a proper Currency and extend the reach of Qin's laws through Courthouses.

    Currency came quickly, and provided a powerful boost to our coffers and research rate. But just as we were busy, so, too, were our enemies:



    The Great Library wasn't really feasible, given our tech path, but it still smarts to see it go. Ah, well. Perhaps it will be within our reach to, ah, "liberate" soon. And as you can see there, Manila's environs are now thoroughly tamed, and the islands are now one of but many jewels in Beijing's crown.

    The presence of a Barbarian kingdom on the very outskirts of our capital was troubling. Qin Shi Huang sent a makeshift party of raiders to smash the encampment and bring back its treasures:



    The victory was quick and complete. Not a soul survived the massacre.

    Vijayawada was founded to cement Chinese control over the Indian subcontinent:



    A fourth settlement may be placed to the west in good time, but that is an arid place devoid of valuable resources. Like China's interior, it is a long-term project for another time. Vijayawada, meanwhile, lies near valuable Cattle, Iron, and Sugar. It will be a fine city.

    In 820, Cyrus made his play for India:



    Immortals are particularly difficult for us, given their particular skill against Archery Units. Given that the bulk of our forces consist of Cho-Ko-Nu's, that gives him an investment advantage (Think Spearmen vs. Elephants. Our UUs have a slight edge, one-on-one, but they're much more expensive than Cyrus'). The repeating crossbows' collateral damage, though, along with some care in picking matchups, allowed us to prevail without losses (though with significant damage).

    As soldiers clashed in Pakistan, though, Workers spread throughout the islands of the south Pacific, which is clearly now ours for the taking. Workers preparing Indonesia for settlement happened upon some friendly locals who were recruited to garrison a future city:



    It was a calculated risk, sending a Worker into a Tribal Village, but Workers are cheap at this stage of the game, and the gamble paid off.

    The pacification of China's northern borders continued with the fiefdom of Cherokee, off the coast of Japan:



    Qin Shi Huang thought long and hard about the prospect of keeping the city and bringing it into the empire, but finally decided against it. There are better sites still unsettled. We'll place filler cities when there are no more jewels to be claimed. Cherokee was put to the torch.

    With Civil Service researched, Macemen began training in a few select cities and the Chinese government was thrown into chaos as power was consolidated in Beijing. I don't think Bureaucracy makes a ton of sense in our sprawling empire (I think that the upkeep costs outweigh boosting one city), but, hey. We're China. If we're not gonna run Bureaucracy, who will? As the dust settled, and research on Engineering began (our empire is getting too big for mere two-move Roads), we received further word on the advancements of "far-away lands":



    Well, that'll be a tough nut to crack, but War Weariness hasn't been a problem yet, so I'm not too worried.

    The citizens of Vijayawada made an interesting discovery in the ruins of Old Bombay:



    The additional exploration also bore fruit, lopping three turns off our research time! I hate spending the extra money for nothing, don't you?

    Cyrus sent a second wave at India in 950. Our scouts noted a band of Settlers hidden discreetly within their ranks. This would not do:



    The invasion force was scattered, and the Settlers were chained and set to work building Roads.

    Banjarmasin was founded in 960 to harness the wealth of both Borneo and Indonesia:



    I'm trying to be sparing in my city-founding. Making each city count. Maybe some spam would be more appropriate, but fewer cities means quicker turns :p And as you can see, those tribal Warriors have been ferried over. I don't think the city will be under attack anytime soon, so they'll do fine quelling the populace's fears.

    By 970, our Cho-Ko-Nu's, led by General Nelson, had pushed their way into Persia:



    Susa was taken and rechristened Karachi. It's little more than a fortress-city, but it pushes the front away from Delhi, which can now concentrate on being an economic powerhouse.

    Aomori was founded that same year:



    The northern Japan city always seems to end up being a useless load, in my opinion, but it brings in the Silver, which is important. And this site can borrow Kyoto's Copper Mines for production, which it usually lacks.

    The wars against Cyrus and the Siberian Barbarians resulted in the birth of another Great General:



    Sargon was attached to some Spearmen. He will make a fine Medic Unit.

    The, ahem, "city" of New Guinea was founded near the ruins of Tokyo in 990:



    So sue me, arright? When I get a message about "New Guinea," I'll know immediately what it's talking about. "Port Moresby," though? Screw that :) And yes, we're working toward Philosophy. Concerns about "popular religion" are kind of moot when everyone's at everyone else's throats, anyway, so I think Taoism is worth pursuing. And, besides, it's on the way to Liberalism :D

    Wilbur Wright was born in 1010:



    He can give us Monarchy free of charge, but that's a relatively quick tech these days, anyway. I'm saving him for the moment. I figure we can put him towards a Golden Age. Or maybe he can complete a Wonder for us. Speaking of, Beijing's working on Notre Dame. May as well get some use out of that 50% production boost for Bureaucracy.

    Hatshepsut, too, adopted Bureaucracy in 1030:



    She's becoming a bit worrisome. She might well be our biggest long-term threat.

    So, in 1040, I decided to wrap up the round with a new age of religious awakening:



    I spread the faith to Beijing, but I haven't converted yet. Maybe during a Golden Age. For now, the ability to build Temples alone should be enough. So at the top, there, you can see our tech choices. I'm leaning Paper, though I can be argued out of it. Maybe go whole-hog and go for Nationalism?

    Here's a look at our empire:



    Australia (or, again, Siberia) is our final frontier for peaceable settlement. War with Cyrus is coming.

    Here's our Military:



    Not enough, I know, but a short buildup should result in a LOT of offensive firepower. So, what're your thoughts? I kind of feel like I spun my wheels this round, but I now have an economic and industrial base that I'm comfortable with. Next round: WAR!
     
  15. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    It might not be a bad idea to nab Alphabet quickly just to see how the Liberalism race is going. It's cheap, and Spies might make decent substitute Scouts. You're first to Philosophy, which is good (especially since the AI prioritizes it over the other GS-bulbed Lib tech, Paper), but a look at the other tech screens might help with strategy.

    I have a feeling Cyrus isn't going to be much of a problem. Build Maces. Build Trebs. And then? I'd say, really, head to Africa. If Hattie's the first besides you to adopt Bureaucracy, she's teching well, and she's going to have some of those sexy Nile cities and possibly wonders (when I play, she tends to build the Great Wall) free of the European cultural boondoggle.
     
  16. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    You actually might want to go through Guilds for Cuirassiers at this point instead of going Lib. It's the same beaker cost either way (after subtracting the free beakers of Nationalism from Lib.); Lib. gets you earlier Unis and Oxford, and gets you Paper for slightly faster Rifling eventually. Guilds lets you start spamming knights, who will be easily upgraded into Cuirassiers once you get Military Tradition (plus gives you Monarchy for Hereditary Rule, for what that's worth). And switching to 2-movers seems like an obvious move at this point if possible.
     
  17. Bigv32

    Bigv32 Prince

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    I agree with coanda. It is probably about time to start using horses to speed up movement. More of a long term strategy is to go horses now and beeline the pre-reqs for cavalry. I have found that on pangea maps/or Earth maps, If I start wars with knights/cuirassiers, once I get to the other side of that rivals empire, I can just keep rolling because I can take a turn or two and upgrade them.

    Off the top of my head, I am not sure how far you are from cavs, but if you get knights, by the time you hack and slash your way through persia, you could arrive on egypts doorstep with cuirasseirs. The only limiting factor for this is siege.

    Finally, if cathrine has taken over a east europe, I think she will be a bigger threat. Her production has to be more than Egypt. Granted Egypt techs far better, but the distance from your main cities should make Russia more difficult IMO.
     
  18. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Ok, you can start the next game ... this one is won :p Ok not so much , but you control all the far east and India ... it is a matter of time until you can develop enough of armies to clean the old world and the new one is normally easy as well.

    I agree with going to mounted units ... you know this map well enough to know that distances are a PITA and if you want to speed things up, the best way is to move fast. I algo agree with the prediction that Cathy will most likely be a bigger threat , since hatty is 99% of the times a paper tiger in E18 ... teching well due to the insane land near the starting point, but with no military muscle due to both her peacenick tendencies and thee lack of prod in the Nile area. Cathy has enough of prod and of military tendencies to become a issue, though ...
     
  19. Tortfeasor

    Tortfeasor Chieftain

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    I have to dissent from the horse strategy and say that Liberalism will probably benefit you more in the long run. Permanent war means that turns for science buildings will probably be few and far between so that 10% bonus from free religion will help there. Also since you get happiness from any religion it will save you hammers having to build missionaries as you spread into central Asia and Europe.

    Horses will probably be useful in the long run but your UU should get you through Cyrus and maybe even Saladin with little trouble and they're both close enough to not really be cramped by distance. Meanwhile you can get Liberalism and take nationalism as your free tech. That puts you well ahead on the road to rifling and you can then detour for Cuirassiers and upgrade them to cavalry when you get rifling. Unleash them and laugh long and hearty as you crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.
     
  20. Bigv32

    Bigv32 Prince

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    To deal with Cathrine, I once used a pinch strategy that worked wonders. I was playing China like you and was following roughly the same conquest line. Fight through Turkey and up to the polish region. Then attack from the German/Polish area, from the south near what I think are the Carpathian mountians (These two attacks meet at Moscow), and finally, a smaller force attacks from the east and picks off the weaker cities that are usually there. Using horses, I was able to catch much of her army in the field as they were moving between cities.

    However, I was playing on Monarch without always war, so Europe still had Germany etc. Every game is different, but it was a fun strategy to try as I lost my European strike force outside of moscow. This let my other forces take almost everything else with limited causualties.

    Finally, are you going to start razing some cities or keep them all?
     

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